Sending my compost and worm castings to a lab...

Wetdog said:

DING! DING! DING! We have a winner!

First off, get yourself some D-Lime (pulverized, from Lowes or HD, or the feed store. Oyster shell, only if you are close enough to the left coast to get it in an actual store, for $10 or so. D-Lime is ~$4.50)

Snag a LOCAL 4cf bag of perlite. Should be $16 - $20. Just the regular horticultural grade, not the "chunky". Avoid the expanded shale, pumice, lava rock and any 'cool & green' aeration stuff till you know just how a well aerated mix should look and perform.

I KNOW GMM loves this stuff and I am NOT throwing shade here, far from it! What GMM has, that so many lack, is years of experience and plenty of fuck-ups along with observations and lessons learned from those fuck-ups.

I've been doing it for over 45 years and STILL fuck-up! But, usually, know what I did wrong when the memory finally kicks in. LOL At my age I'm pretty much pre compost.

Slow down a bit and get more basic. I mean, if you add rabbit poo and the plants look worse ...... That should tell you it's not ready yet, or, there is too much urine still in it (I'm betting on excess urine).

Have you ever made your own mix from scratch? Have never used a bagged mix, being extremely lucky trading sweat labor to learn a basic mix in 1971. Far beyond anything bagged IMO, since you aren't concerned with profit margins and adding just enough 'stuff' for it to work for a little while.

I'll add more when I get my thoughts collected.

BTW, besides using wildly different amendments, due to location, GMM's and my styles of growing are so similar it's scary. Just a casual aside can convey paragraphs of information on things.

Wet

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I am not ignoring you or anything!!! I read everything that you say really. I might wait a couple more days until I buy stuff, after I get the results back. You may be right on with the aeration though, I feel comfortable getting some more even without the results. I felt like I didnt have enough to begin with and both of you said that was probably my problem... I forgot to mention that my room did smell like a stale fart for a couple of days.

MustangStudFarm said:

I am not ignoring you or anything!!! I read everything that you say really. I might wait a couple more days until I buy stuff, after I get the results back. You may be right on with the aeration though, I feel comfortable getting some more even without the results. I felt like I didnt have enough to begin with and both of you said that was probably my problem... I forgot to mention that my room did smell like a stale fart for a couple of days.

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heh, wasn't the stale fart just Mattress-fucker's residue?
hahaha

greasemonkeymann said:

heh, wasn't the stale fart just Mattress-fucker's residue?
hahaha

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I think that this deserves a back story! When I came home from deployment back in 2005, my cousin told me to put a fake vagina in between the mattress and "Oh, it's great man" is what he had to say about it. So, me and GMM have been calling him "Mattress Fucker"... I just hope that it is not another relationship that he has creepy kids again!

MustangStudFarm said:

I think that this deserves a back story! When I came home from deployment back in 2005, my cousin told me to put a fake vagina in between the mattress and "Oh, it's great man" is what he had to say about it. So, me and GMM have been calling him "Mattress Fucker"... I just hope that it is not another relationship that he has creepy kids again!

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ohhhh man it was better when nobody knew..
hahaha too funny..

Hey MSF, what kind of test are they doing on your soil? Morgan, Modified Morgan, Bray, Olson, Mehlich 1, 2 or 3, Ammonium Acetate, etc? And what all are they testing for? I'd recommend the Mehlich 3 AND ammonium acetate pH8.2 tests if you can get them which should include several of the minor nutrients tested for including sulfur, boron, copper, iron, manganese and zinc as well as the major cations and anions. I'd ask to get silica/silicon tested for also.

And IMO, don't use dolomite. There's better amendments for calcium and magnesium and for adjusting pH. pH isn't as big of a deal in soil anyway, within reason.

rikdabrick said:

Hey MSF, what kind of test are they doing on your soil? Morgan, Modified Morgan, Bray, Olson, Mehlich 1, 2 or 3, Ammonium Acetate, etc? And what all are they testing for? I'd recommend the Mehlich 3 AND ammonium acetate pH8.2 tests if you can get them which should include several of the minor nutrients tested for including sulfur, boron, copper, iron, manganese and zinc as well as the major cations and anions. I'd ask to get silica/silicon tested for also.

And IMO, don't use dolomite. There's better amendments for calcium and magnesium and for adjusting pH. pH isn't as big of a deal in soil anyway, within reason.

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I guess that I never mentioned that huh? Here is the price list. I think that the Worm bin rabbit manure is getting the animal waste test for $20 and soil test was $18 and I am not completely sure which one it is. They said that I could order more tests if I want, I gave them enough of a sample to do this... It might be easier to read from the website.
http://soiltesting.okstate.edu/services-and-price-list

Soil Fertility
Routine Soil Test
pH (1:1), Lime requirement (Sikora Buffer), NO3-N,
Soil test P & K by Mehlich 3 (MIII) $10.00
Subsoil Nitrate-N
(with submission of surface soil)
NO3-N (0.008M Calcium Phosphate) $2.00
Nitrate-N or Ammonium-N NO3-N or NH4-N (1M KCl) $4.00
Nitrate-N and Ammonium-N NO3-N and NH4-N (1M KCl) $5.00
Secondary Nutrients
Mg, Ca (M3) and SO4-S (0.008M Calcium Phosphate) $4.00
Micronutrients
Fe, Zn, Cu, B (DTPA-Sorbitol)
$4.00
Soil Salinity
Salinity Management
(1:1 soil to water extraction)
Na, Ca, Mg, K, B, EC, TDS (total dissolved solids), SAR, ESP, pH $15.00
Comprehensive Salinity (Saturated paste extraction)
Na, Ca, Mg, K, B, EC, TDS, SAR, ESP, pH, Cl-, CO3=, HCO3-, NO3-N, SO4= $40.00
Soil Texture
Texture Class (Hydrometer)
Sand%, Silt%, Clay%, Textural class
$10.00
Soil Organic matter and nitrogen
Organic Matter
OM% (Combustion or LOI)
$8.00
or TN or both OC% or TN% (Combustion)
$8.00
Greenhouse Root Media Tests
Greenhouse Media
EC, pH, NO3-N, NH4-N, P, K, Ca, Mg, Na, S, B
(Saturated media extract method) $20.00

Greenhouse Media Plus
All the above plus Fe, Cu, and Zn (DTPA saturated media extract method) $30.00
Water Quality Analyses
Livestock Water
pH, NO3-N, EC, TDS, Hardness, Na, Ca, Mg, K, Cl-, SO4-, Fe, Zn, Cu, Mn, $15.00
Household Water
pH, EC, TDS, Hardness, Na, Ca, Mg, K, Cl-, NO3-N, SO4-, Fe, Zn, Cu, Mn, $15.00
Irrigation Water Na, Ca, Mg, K, B, Cl-, NO3-N, SO4-, CO3-, HCO3- , pH, EC, SAR, TDS, Hardness, Alkalinity $15.00
Nitrate and Ammonium N NO3-N and NH4-N $4.00

Nitrate-N or Ammonium-N
NO3-N or NH4-N $3.00

Ortho-P or Total Dissolved P (TDP)
Ortho-P (colorimetric), TDP (ICP) $3.00
Forage Quality Analyses
Nitrate Toxicity
Nitrate and Moisture $6.00
Basic Analysis
Protein (Dry combustion-LECO) and Moisture $8.00
Basic Plus Energy Protein and Moisture, ADF - Acid Detergent Fiber and TDN, Net Energy for: Gain, Lactation, Maintenance $14.00
Basic Plus Energy
Plus RFV Protein, Moisture, ADF, TDN and Energy, NDF - Neutral Detergent Fiber
RFV - Relative Feed Value (Alfalfa only) $20.00
Minerals
Ca, P, Na, Mg, K, S, Mn, Cu, Fe, Zn and Moisture $12.00
Feed, Grain and Plant Sample Analyses
Protein or TN
Protein or Total Nitrogen (Dry combustion-LECO) and Moisture $8.00
TN or C or Both
Total Nitrogen and Carbon (Dry combustion-LECO) $8.00
Minerals Ca, P, Na, Mg, K, S, Mn, Cu, Fe, Zn and Moisture $12.00
Plant Tissue Test
Plant Tissue Test
TN, P, K, Ca, Na, Mg, S, Mn, Cu, Fe, Zn, B $20.00
Animal Manure and Compost Analyses
Animal Waste Form (Word Format)

Test 1 (Solid/slurry)
pH, EC, Moisture, TN, C, S, P, K, Ca, Mg, Na, Cu, Zn, Mn, Fe $20.00
Test 1 (liquid)
pH, EC, Moisture, TN, C, S, P, K, Ca, Mg, Na, Cu, Zn, Mn, Fe $25.00
Test 2 NH4-N and NO3-N $6.00
Test 3 Water soluble P $8.00


Other Tests May Be Available Upon Request
Services for Researchers are also Available
Miscellaneous Charges

Faxing Results
$1.00/report
Chain of Custody form
$1.00/form
Forage Sample Bags
$0.25/each

I just asked my wife, she was the one that dropped it off. She said that we ordered Test#1 on the manure, and under the "soil fertility" we got the routine test along with micro and secondary nutrients. I dont know if the person taking her order helped her pick?

After seeing that, I kind of want to order more tests. Maybe I should wait and see if everything looks normal first?

Or, I could see if I can fix the soil and send it back in afterwards??? Also, a water sample.

A water sample is a good idea and you have most of want you want to test for with what you ordered. Those other tests aren't going to be really helpful to you for the most part.

I didn't see manganese, silica or sodium on the routine soil test. I'd ask for those to be tested also.

That lab does Mehlich 3 (M3) testing. I'd see if they can give you the ppm numbers from the Mehlich 3 test for Ca, Mg, P, K, S, B, Cu, Fe, Mn, Zn and Na. If not no worries, but I could help you out easier with the results with M3 and AA pH8.2 numbers. Those are the tests I'm most familiar with, but other test numbers can be converted to ones I can work with in general if you want some extra advice. And like I mentioned get whatever kind of test they do for silica.

If they do the ammonium acetate pH8.2 test it would only be for Ca, Mg, K and Na and the only numbers you really need to know out of those 4 are Ca and Mg.

And personally I'd just run those same tests on anything you send in including manures, worm castings, etc. Is the animal waste form test #1 basically a saturated paste test? I don't know what kind of test that one would be.

greasemonkeymann said:

ohhhh man it was better when nobody knew..
hahaha too funny..

Click to expand...

Do you have an idea on these tests? I tried to read a little about what @rikdabrick was talking about, I found something but it still does not make sense..


Alright, your back Rik. I found this article, but it is a hard read!
http://www.agronext.iastate.edu/soilfertility/presentations/mbotest.pdf

rikdabrick said:

And like I mentioned get whatever kind of test they do for silica.

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It looks like they have soil salinity tests!

Soil Salinity
Salinity Management
(1:1 soil to water extraction)
Na, Ca, Mg, K, B, EC, TDS (total dissolved solids), SAR, ESP, pH $15.00

Comprehensive Salinity (Saturated paste extraction)
Na, Ca, Mg, K, B, EC, TDS, SAR, ESP, pH, Cl-, CO3=, HCO3-, NO3-N, SO4= $40.00

Very cool link, thanks for posting that MSF.

You don't need those Soil Salinity tests to get a good idea of what's in your soil and what you need to do to it IMO.

Also, IMO, the AA pH8.2 test isn't as necessary if you soil is below 7 pH. It can give you a better idea of available calcium in an acidic soil though and I would say it is very necessary to get a good idea of the available calcium in a alkaline soil.

Do they report organic matter % in those tests? I didn't see it. I'd get that too if it's not included.

I'm off to do some gardening, but I'll check back in later

MustangStudFarm said:

Do you have an idea on these tests? I tried to read a little about what @rikdabrick was talking about, I found something but it still does not make sense..


Alright, your back Rik. I found this article, but it is a hard read!
http://www.agronext.iastate.edu/soilfertility/presentations/mbotest.pdf

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the soil salinity is a good test, assuming that'd check the sodium levels, which could be cause by excess rabbit urine.
don't think that's it though, I think the salinity tests are for those of us near the ocean, making sure the water isn't brackish?
not sure, never done any soil testing
but the TDS is the kicker, that's what I think is the issue
we'll find out soon enough, but the fact that the soil is fine in smaller containers, and the fact that they aren't watered to runoff is most likely the issue

Those salinity tests aren't for checking sodium levels. It's for getting total dissolved salt levels which aren't necessary for this situation IMO. As far as testing for Na, I'd get the results from the Mehlich 3 test if possible.

I have to read back a bit, but if I'm catching what greasemonkeymann is throwing down then he's probably making a very good point. Proper watering is important especially as peat starts to break down.

rikdabrick said:

Those salinity tests aren't for checking sodium levels. It's for getting total dissolved salt levels which aren't necessary for this situation IMO. As far as testing for Na, I'd get the results from the Mehlich 3 test if possible.

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is it dissolved salts or dissolved solids?
dissolved solids would be a useful test for any organic media that is suffering from possible lack of aeration
don't you agree?

greasemonkeymann said:

amazon has em my man, shit you guys are gonna think I work for them or something...

https://www.amazon.com/Natures-Seed-Rice-Hulls-LBS/dp/B01CUYJFJ0/ref=sr_1_1?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1479321257&sr=1-1&keywords=rice+hulls

3.5 cubic feet is a good amount too

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Richland does have 50# bales for $7.30 plus $20.28 to ship but I'm not sure I want Acme Transit or someone delivering here in the Fall. Will check on freight carrier. That is $50.00 less than Amazon. Irene Wilson Director of Sales. I have 8 cu/ft of perlite in storage and use a 2 1/2x 5 foot tent. My wife thinks I am dirt hoarder.

greasemonkeymann said:

is it dissolved salts or dissolved solids?
dissolved solids would be a useful test for any organic media that is suffering from possible lack of aeration
don't you agree?

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Actually I'd have to call and see what that test is. I looked too quick and thought it was a total acid digest, which is unnecessary as is the saturated paste test IMO.

To be clear, if I was writing Mustang a soil prescription all I would need is the macros and micros I stated before from the Mehlich 3 test and Ca, Mg from the AA pH8.2 test, the ppm of silica and maybe the weight of one gallon of soil if it's a lightweight soil which it probably is if it has a lot of peat.

rikdabrick said:

Actually I'd have to call and see what that test is. I looked too quick and thought it was a total acid digest, which is unnecessary as is the saturated paste test IMO.

To be clear, if I was writing Mustang a soil prescription all I would need is the macros and micros I stated before from the Mehlich 3 test and Ca, Mg from the AA pH8.2 test, the ppm of silica and maybe the weight of one gallon of soil if it's a lightweight soil which it probably is if it has a lot of peat.

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i'm smart enough to know my experience and knowledge level, that being said, I defer to you, you seem to know much more about that than I.

rikdabrick said:

To be clear, if I was writing Mustang a soil prescription all I would need is the macros and micros I stated before from the Mehlich 3 test and Ca, Mg from the AA pH8.2 test, the ppm of silica and maybe the weight of one gallon of soil if it's a lightweight soil which it probably is if it has a lot of peat.

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I think that is what I ordered? The "routine soil test" would be the Mehlich and I also paid for a Micro and Secondary test.

Soil Fertility
Routine Soil Test
pH (1:1), Lime requirement (Sikora Buffer), NO3-N,
Soil test P & K by Mehlich 3 (MIII) $10.00

Secondary Nutrients
Mg, Ca (M3) and SO4-S (0.008M Calcium Phosphate) $4.00

Micronutrients
Fe, Zn, Cu, B (DTPA-Sorbitol)
$4.00