Should the US shed blood for Ukraine

Should the USA along with NATO defend Ukraine with troops.

  • Yes

    Votes: 40 40.4%
  • No

    Votes: 59 59.6%

  • Total voters
    99

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Seriously….

I’m sure we have So called Top Gun pilots or NATO that could be sent ( then denied about ) . It angers me that we look down on special ops being initiated. We could literally reconfigure ordnance for those MiG fighters - MOAB / Sidewinders / AMRAM .

Even Vulcan Rotary cannons.
I think this is gonna be a ground fight, mostly infantry, most of the Russian combat power has been negated by modern arms. NLAWs, Javelins and a host of other antitank weapons make tanks and APCs death traps Troops have to dismount to protect armor. Stingers and other manpads take tactical air off the table except for drones, helicopters can't be used except over friendly territory, meaning we can use them more than they can, but for logistics and such.

Only about a third of the Russian invading force are combat troops the rest are vulnerable logistic support units in highly hostile territory with increasingly armed and trained partisans. Lose their supplies then their spear tips of combat troops can be cut off and surrounded, prisoners taken, some of whom might end up in The Hague for war crimes...
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Vasily Bykov - one of the two Russian attack ships that attacked Snake Island has been destroyed by Ukrainian rocket fire.

:finger:
More to come, the US and UK navies want a piece of the action too and they can do it using Ukrainians to fire anti ship missiles from shore. Some of these things can reach out and touch ya a long way out at sea, if a drone has ya targeted. The UK was helping the Ukrainians build their navy before this shit happened and supplying ships etc.
 

Budzbuddha

Well-Known Member
I think this is gonna be a ground fight, mostly infantry, most of the Russian combat power has been negated by modern arms. NLAWs, Javelins and a host of other antitank weapons make tanks and APCs death traps Troops have to dismount to protect armor. Stingers and other manpads take tactical air off the table except for drones, helicopters can't be used except over friendly territory, meaning we can use them more than they can, but for logistics and such.

Only about a third of the Russian invading force are combat troops the rest are vulnerable logistic support units in highly hostile territory with increasingly armed and trained partisans. Lose their supplies then their spear tips of combat troops can be cut off and surrounded, prisoners taken, some of whom might end up in The Hague for war crimes...
Word has it amateur drone hobbyists are using common hobby drones to help survey ground forces. Local blacksmiths are making spiked chain deterrents for aggressor vehicles - plus the permafrost and snow is reeking havoc on Russian vehicles too.

I would hope local farmers could tractor destroyed equipment / vehicles to help block roads. Or even “ jerry rig “ some artillery shells as IED.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Word has it amateur drone hobbyists are using common hobby drones to help survey ground forces. Local blacksmiths are making spiked chain deterrents for aggressor vehicles - plus the permafrost and snow is reeking havoc on Russian vehicles too.

I would hope local farmers could tractor destroyed equipment / vehicles to help block roads.
All those bare handed men are getting soviet arms "packages" delivered at a phenomenal rate, weapons they are familiar with from military service. Seriously NATO was stuck with millions of AK47s, machine guns, mortars and RPGs and billions of rounds of ammo when Warsaw pac nations joined NATO. Most were just sitting in warehouses and are on the way by Truck and plane to Ukraine, many have already been delivered. Ukraine has plenty too, since they are transitioning to new small arms for the army. They are gonna have one Helleva welcoming committee for Vlad's boys when the bulk of his army gets there! Ukraine will have a million man professional army of mostly combat troops, the women and old men will do the logistics with NATO supplies. There are at least 5 million young able bodied men in the country and enough free arms to supply every fucking one of them stored close by, what do you think will happen? ;-)
 
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DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Kharkiv, almost on the Russian border in the extreme north east and they have still not even come close to taking it. Their lines around it securing it are probably shit and they can only supply and fly from and over friendly territory. Arms are being delivered to towns and villages on their line of advance and all those angry men in the town squares will have arms and military advisors to train and direct them. Most left in those places are older men with previous military experience and they know these weapons.
 

CCGNZ

Well-Known Member
As this all plays out,the shock of the whole thing is inexplicable,how could Putin have miscalculated so badly for one,strictly by numbers the multi axis plan of attack was poor,ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING had to go right,and you never expect that in war,NEVER,secondly it's simple numbers,you need at least 750,000 troops to even consider holding all this territory,maybe even a million,not 190,000 that's insane.The Russian military performance is poorer than could ever be imagined,all the way from planning at staff level,tactically in operations,performance of equipment,and morale of troops.
Prior to hostilities I was under the impression that Russia had "professionalized" their military w/contract soldiers and moving away from conscription. Russia soldiers have a track record for being quite formidable,obviously their hearts were lacking at least the conscripted troops,what kind of command structure send troops into battle under the veil of exercises(that is criminal). Russian military doctrine has never put any value on their soldiers lives and this still continues w/recon columns sent into ambushes all over Ukraine,how do you expect loyalty when you dismiss men as cannon fodder,if your a soldier in the West,you are a valuable asset who knows your NCO's,and officers from LT. thru Gen. are not looking to get you killed that makes a big diff. in morale. I just sit here stupified that Russian military doctrine has not seemed to evolve from sledgehammer brute force steamroller machine from WW2.,considering all the examples they could learn from in previous conflicts since then,no evolution=no improvement.In the end it's good because evil is not going to prevail here,but analytically it's hard to fathom.
 

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
Vodka will become expensive and there a many alcoholics in Russia and perhaps many dry throats in Ukraine... Seriously, large stocks of alcohol that their troops have access too would be a major problem for their officers and cause some units to go completely to shit.
i don't think there will be much shortage of vodka, since most of the rest of the world has quit buying russian vodka
 

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
Think “ The Stig “ of pilots ( unknown only to few ) that could secretly run sorties and really add to the defense of Ukraine.
i'd like to see the Ukrains get the migs and start using them to run missions into russia. bomb the fucking convoys on the way to the border, bomb storage facilities where military supplies are stored, bomb oil storage facilities...take the fight to putin...and shove it down his fucking throat
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
i'd like to see the Ukrains get the migs and start using them to run missions into russia. bomb the fucking convoys on the way to the border, bomb storage facilities where military supplies are stored, bomb oil storage facilities...take the fight to putin...and shove it down his fucking throat
A drone with sidewinders could take out those large military transports flying into Crimea from Russia and keeping forces in the south alive. They can't get inside Russia with planes and it would be unwise to attack mother Russia, Belarus might be another matter for the Ukrainians, if they figured they could topple the unpopular dictatorship, or disrupt supplies coming to the west side of Kyiv. The Russians would panic with supplies cut and revolution at their backs!
 
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