Soil Food Web Gardening with Compost Teas

I look at ACT and Lacto-B (BIM) a little teeny bit differently these days.

Lacto Bacillus is a primary digester. Great for getting things going in a new soil. That's why it's great to make Bokashi. A real digester. I'm less convinced routinely applying ACT or BIMs is as good as perhaps the Barley, coconut or aloe teas. The thought is that if the soil microbes are up and running in the soil, every day that goes by that soil becomes more organized. Hierarchies are further established. Things are more organized. It hit me one day when I thought of pouring billions of microbes down upon all that order in that plant pot. If there was such a vast microbial order, am I really helping? I realize there's a huge introduction of nutrients, but we can do that with other teas and amendments.

The coconut, barley and Aloe teas (or mix all thee = 1 tea) don't supply microbes that I already have. They supply plant enzymes, hormones and various secondary metabolites (sorry to keep saying that). These are like power tools you're dropping into the soil for the microbes and plant to use. They help the microherd, but don't disturb it.

This is just a thought

Rrog said:

Cann, that's the fellow. My friend.

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It is my dream to one day personally meet this man. You say friend...Have you been blessed enough to meet the famed CC? If so, I shouldn't be surprised that you have all the answers to my questions

Spliff - in the spirit of your post I may run a side by side next round with just BIM and molasses. I am going to be running a few different supersoil-esque mixes, as well as using up the remainder of my Aurora nutrients and Roots 707 soil. I'll do a comparison of the roots nutrient lineup vs straight BIM and molasses. I may have to amend or top dress the 707 to provide enough food if I am only using BIM and molasses...what do you think? Would straight 707, BIM, and molasses support a few weeks of veg and then flower? If you are not familiar with 707 - http://www.aurorainnovations.org/formula_707.html. Disregard the silly description lol and skip to the ingredients. I might also try a urine and ash mixture in the spirit of this study - http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/09/090918-urine-ash-fertilizer.html.

What do you think?

EDIT: god the thread is so active we are getting robot trolls...jesus. I guess this is a good thing? haha.

Rrog - that post about microbiological order and structure - wow. You, my friend, are thinking things out properly. I had a thought along those lines a few weeks ago, but thought nothing of it. Now what you are saying makes perfect sense. I guess this is the reason that CC only applies AACTs twice...once in veg, and then a fungal tea in flowering to induce P uptake (if I am correct on this). Glad to have you around

I would love for you to do that, thats all you need. Thats basic biology, water with EM-1 and molasses everytime, every watering. Use FF or LC's mix though just to show how easy it is. You would open a lot of eyes.

Keep it very basic, I wouldn't even measure my feedings. Just go by feel and pour outta the bottle, seriously thats how easy it is. I have used 707 once and IMO its complete trash. Just use a 1/3 humus 1/3 peat 1/3 perlite, with no added lime. If you ever do feel like you need Calmag and ph balance, just put a couple tsp in a 32 oz bottle shake it up, and water. Easy as pie, bulletproof. Lets not get into details because I never do, I just go by instinct I guess. Looking at your posts, I can tell you got some organic instincts, just listen to your higher self. It'll tell you what to do.

Thats how I usually am lol. Whether its in the kitchen, brewin beer, or mixing compost teas...just a bit of this, a bit of that, etc. The plants aren't that sensitive lol. Nature is good at adapting and creating ideal conditions.

And good point about the FF instead of 707, I can make it more universally applicable. I have literally never bought a bag of FF though lol so I'm gonna cringe a bit having to pay $13 for a bag of trash lol. But yeah, that would definitely open a LOT of eyes, if people would even be willing to accept it (consumer subconscious is a powerful thing). I'm sure I'll have fools arguing with me about every stage of the process lol. Maybe I'll pick up a sample pack of a chem fert line just for the fuck of it to prove how shitty the chem products are!!! lol...can you imagine? Would be great to see the damage caused by chelated nutrients...I'd feel bad for my clone! haha. Maybe I'll do a tap water vs. RO comparison too...although I will probably have to supplement cal/mg with the RO cause i had problems last time when I didn't...

My brain is way too scientific haha...damn biologist parents! Experiments on my mind...

I've just really had my eyes opened to the power of these RAW plant compounds. Even good ol' FPEs (Fermented Plant Extracts) don't have these crazy amazing secondary metabolites. They only last for a few hours. Aloe starts to crap out after 20 minutes. These are fleeting and wondrous compounds indeed.

So all those plants Cann is growing - Gold.

Someone spray a foliar of Aloe Tea and report back.. Hee hee... you'll see..

Cann you mentioned water. What would be the most natural water for a plant? I used to think well water. Pure and all. Full of minerals. But plant roots don't go down 300 feet like my well.

Plants get rain. So what's in rain? Very little, assuming you don't have polluted. Rain is pretty pure from the little I've read up on this. So maybe straight RO water on soil isn't so bad. What problems did you see?

Cann said:

And good point about the FF instead of 707, I can make it more universally applicable. I have literally never bought a bag of FF though lol so I'm gonna cringe a bit having to pay $13 for a bag of trash lol. thing).
My brain is way too scientific haha...damn biologist parents! Experiments on my mind...

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You can make a base soil if you want.

When i used straight RO I developed cal/mg issues about 2 months in. Check my grow journal and you'll see...everything was gravy for the first two months, and then all of a sudden cal/mg issues. At first i thought it was lockout when I was under the impression that pH was a concern (doh!) but now I realize it was just a deficiency. Yes rain has very little in it...but enough to provide some trace minerals over time. If I am wrong, please let me know

Also, for an aloe foliar - how much per gallon? And 20 minutes is once you break the leaf off, yes? Because I have that broken off chunk of plant which I assume is still thriving and alive with secondary metabolites. Please elaborate on these secondary metabolites also - as always I would love to hear more

Islands... California... I'm in the arctic! So jealous!!! And can't read fast enough! Worms... Would I ever see them? I think so. I'll just concentrate on compost for now. Just don't think I can do it... Maybe when my boys are old enough to help. Lol. That's a new Saturday chore: worm bin stuff.

Thats amazing! I didn't know you feed this to worms. Most of those ingredients are in or will be in my compost. Added milk to rice serum tonight. Intend to just use the EM1 on the compost & mix it in. Don't really want to pickle it, just help it break down fast.
I'm also using powdered oyster shell & egg shell. I'll check the feed store for flaxseed meal. Where else would carry it? Or can I make my own flax meal by grinding whole flax?

Rrog said:

My current thought process is Vermicompost. I take my household scraps and turn it to Bokashi. I have two 30 gallon Smart Pots on a little raised wire platform with Red Wigglers. Started with used soil and I add the Bokashi off to the side so the worms can go get it as they want it.

I'm turning my table scraps into the best compost available. I plan to add the following to the worm smart pots:

Alfalfa
Kelp Meal
Neem Meal
Karanja meal
Manure or compost
Comfrey
Yarrow
Horsetail Ferns
Stinging Nettles
Fish Meal
Fish Bone Meal
Flaxseed Meal
Rock Dusts
- Glacial Rock
- Bentonite
- Oyster Shell
- Basalt
Agsil 16
Crab Meal powder
Clay Powders **

** Montmorillonite and Pyrophyllite

So when fully composted in a couple months, the EWC will be heavily amended and great for top-dressing.

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My opinion: EM-1 or BIM are for primary inoculation, not routine feeding. I'm not sure where the practice of feeding a plant Lacto-b. I wouldn't do this.

This thread is Gold. Danks to all contributors! Its nice to know that there are many organic gardeners critically thinking, experimenting, and sharing all that knowledge on RIU. DANK YOU, you are helping many to learn what nature can do if respected and researched!

Rrog, thats not an opinion. Your right and thats the facts, I'm not saying to do this. I was just mentioning that people would be suprised with the results of using just using those, I'm sure Cann was thinkin the same thing. Personally I know of people doing just that and having wonderful plants, could have been really good genetics.

Kalyx, that's very true. Nature is powerful! Hard to fight millions of years of evolution. We just need to understand it all better.

I'm particularly excited about local products. Your own teas, microbes, amendments, EWC... all local. Local = best. Local = cheapest.

I'd like to think that more people are looking to make these products themselves rather than buying a box or bottle, even if it says "organic"

Not to mention the feeling I get personally, when growing organic. Feeling of enlightment, as I sink my hands into my moist worm bin; it's almost a high. Like I'm looking down at myself!

The tactile experience of hands in a worm bin is one of my favorite moist and warm and earthy and wriggly. I only wish the worms liked it as much as me! I feel bad digging around in there and disturbing them...but it has to be done.

Thanks Kalyx for all the positive vibes, I'm glad this thread exists as well. It has easily become my favorite thread on RIU at the moment...

I had to post and show appreciation for the information being shared here.

Bravo, ladies and gentlemen.

Just wanted to mention another great food for the microherd: coconut palm nectar! In mg per 100 mg: Nitrogen (N) 202, phosphorous (P) 79, Potassium (K) 1,030, Calcium (Ca) 8, Magnesium (Mg) 29, Sodium (Na) 45, Chloride (Cl) 470, Sulfur (S) 26, Boron (B) 0.6, Zinc (Zn) 2, Mananese (Mn) 0.1, Iron, (Fe) 2, Copper (Cu) 0.23, Thiamine 0.41, Vitamin C 23.4. From coconutpalmsugar dot com

I've heard of a lot of people adding B vitamins to the soil, even an AN product is full of them. I have some brewer's yeast and nutritional yeast that can be bubbled in some water with molasses, then as a drench. Any idea why the microherd would like a Multi-B vitamin?

One other "amendment" I have been adding to my worm bin is soy protein powder, the worms LOVE it and it's got good stuff for them like B vitamins ect...

And yes, I agree, best thread on RIU.