Starting up DWC First time, need help with Nutes and enzymes.

Discussion in 'DWC/ Bubbleponics' started by VRZ711, Jan 1, 2017.

  1.  
    VRZ711

    VRZ711 Active Member

    i am using frozen water bottles, also using subculture B and M hope it will help, thank you for your help on this.
     
  2.  
    NapalmZen

    NapalmZen Well-Known Member

    do you make tea with your subculture?

    i make a "tea" i guess it's called. i use a half gallon container that can be sealed. i dump 1/4 tsp each of M and B as well as a tbsp of molasses and toss in an air stone. let bubble for 2 days then refrigerate. add 1/2 cup per gallon per week. stays good for up to 10 days. it makes the subculture last waaay longer.

    i use the GH flora in the reduced Lucas formula, armor SI, and calimagic in this ratio:

    per gallon

    2.5 ml armor si

    4 ml flora micro

    8 ml flora bloom

    2.5-5 ml calimagic(depending on what water)

    i use the reduced formula as the stronger solution is meant for more powerful lights. im currently using about 175 watts of cob lights. if i did more like 400w+ i would double the micro and bloom.


    EDIT: the micro and bloom can be replaced by GH nova series bloom. or you could just use the 2 part for grow then bloom. the grow is just not necessary(as i understand) though.

    EDIT2: with this setup your rez should be fine up to 75 degrees Fahrenheit.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2017 at 5:00 PM
  3.  
    Martin24

    Martin24 New Member

    Wondering how you did you DIY chiller ? :) Thanks in advance
     
  4.  
    OldMedUser

    OldMedUser Well-Known Member

    I dug up a few pics for ya.

    I was gifted an old water cooler that sat around for a couple years then I came up with an idea to use it as a nute chiller as my DWC tub was running too warm. First off took the plastic parts out of the cooling tank so I could run a coil of 3/8" plastic tubing inside to circulate the nutes thru from the tub. You need about 20' of the tubing as 6 - 8' will just be used to run from the tub to the cooler and back then the rest coiled up inside the tank. The two holes just to the left of the tank are to run the tubing thru but could just as easily gone out the back. Hindsight is always 20/20. :)

    Chill02.jpg
    The fountain pump I got for this was my only expense and one a little bigger might work better but this did the job well enough. It's rated 110GPH/450LPH. To keep roots out of the pump I cut a piece of window screen and used a glue gun to stick it on. A larger piece of screen could be wrapped around the whole pump and secured around the outlet tube instead.

    Chill03.jpg

    I packed wall insulation around the tank to keep the cool in, then filled the tank with automotive anti-freeze so it wouldn't freeze up in there. I used that insulation around the tub too and just wrapped baling wire around to hold it in place. The little pump runs 24/7 but there is a timer on the cooler as the nutes got too cold if it ran all the time. Had the timer on the pump first but the nutes froze up at the bottom of the tank and I had to wait a day for it to thaw out. Cooler would be on 15 min every hour when the lights were on and 15 every two hours when the lights were out. Kept it all between 65 - 68F nice and steady. The return line should be a little longer than needed to reach the bottom of the tub/rez so that it's not discharging right beside the pump and just going round and round.

    Chill05.jpg

    That's about it. Easy-peasy. :)

    :peace:
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2017 at 9:39 PM
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  5.  
    VRZ711

    VRZ711 Active Member

    i am using springs water, it has cal mag already and using flora trio, recommended dose less than 5 ml of each per 3.5 gallons of water.

    for the subculture, i add i spoon of each on every res change directly to the water, but i guess i will start doing your tea, for the molasses, can i replace with 1 cube of brown sugar ?

    thank you so much for taking the time to help me.
     
  6.  
    OldMedUser

    OldMedUser Well-Known Member

    You're not planning to use sugar in DWC are you? It usually ends in tears.
     
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  7.  
    kisiel

    kisiel Member

    In order to get little bit more understanding in fighting with root rot / slime, I have a question, the beneficial bacteria for example in Hydroguard are most common / easiest way to fight with slime right ?
    If yes than is it working in synthetic grows of deep water ?
     
  8.  
    OldMedUser

    OldMedUser Well-Known Member

    I've never used any beneficial bacteria in any of the many DWC grows I've done. If you can keep the nute temps 72F or below you should never get root rot. Grows I've seen that use them are usually OK too but when you toss sugars in the bacteria population can explode and it all turns into a gooey mess. I always used a bit of peroxide twice a week but stopped doing that with better nutes that contain organic compounds like amino acids that the peroxide can damage. If you do DWC with hydro nutes like Peters that are just salts then peroxide is fine.

    The only time I ever got root rot was when I used real dirt to root cuttings that were supposed to go to a friend to grow in soil then he up and died so I used them in a tub. That was almost 14 years ago and I beat it back with peroxide and most of the plants survived and I still ended up with a decent yield.

    I also never clean tubs out during a grow and have clear nutes when the grow is all done and I'm cleaning out the tub. I can almost always re-use my airstones too. No goo anywhere and a quick wipe with a soapy cloth is all it takes to clean it out. I think with bennies you end up with slime in there that usually doesn't cause a problem tho airstones tend to plug up.

    A little buildup on the airstone about two weeks before cropping and the nutes had not got changed even once during that grow.

    DWCroots02.jpg

    :peace:
     
  9.  
    kisiel

    kisiel Member

    Okay, :D not sure but I think I get it, so the main way to deal with root rot is to have stable water temp, and in case when slime still shows sight of attacking, than its best to use H2o2 to the
    reservoir to clear organic matter including algas, NOT benebactrias because if there is already slime than it will "ONLY?" get worse if sugar is inside solution ?
    And if our reservoir is full synthetic without sugar in it than would they fight with slim ?
    And So the benefibacterias are to prevent of geting root rot but if we make a mistake and will add sugar stuff than it may end slimed instead.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2017 at 4:22 AM
  10.  
    OldMedUser

    OldMedUser Well-Known Member

    Sugars are used in soil grows to feed the bacteria and fungus that make the food the plant needs to grow more than to feed the plant. If you use peroxide then hopefully no bacteria grow in the rez and everything runs clear all the time.

    When you use hydro nutes bacteria aren't needed to convert organic matter into the salts that plants feed on. Hydro nutes supply those salts directly to the plant so no middle man is needed. I always used the 35% food grade peroxide at 0.5ml/L twice a week to keep everything clean.

    If you are going to use bennies then you should go really easy with any carbohydrates like sugar or molasses. If the bacteria multiply out of control hit them with 4ml/L.

    :peace:
     
  11.  
    VRZ711

    VRZ711 Active Member

    I will have my genetics seeds soon :), then i should not make any simple mistake, my first grow in DWC was ruined (was bag seeds so didnt care that much anyway), i didn't pay attention to the water temps, there was lots or light leaks, so i got root rot first day, so preparing for the new grow now, i have soaked Rockwool plugs into water and added Subculture b and m, less than 1 gram each and added a tiny bit of sugar, and added an air stone, ill let them sit for 48 hours, before i put my seeds in(after paper towel germination), what do you think boss? looks good? or i will mess things up ?

    now I' DSC_0339.JPG m using iced water bottles to keeps temps in control. and using the tea just as extra protection.

    PS: i didn't put any drop of nutes, should i ?
     
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  12.  
    OldMedUser

    OldMedUser Well-Known Member

    I don't know about putting your beans in rw while it's soaking like that. They are usually just kept moist in a dome with pH adjusted water until they have good roots and some true leaves then put into net pots with an inch of hydroton balls under then so the cube isn't submerged in water.

    But are just letting them soak for now and plan to squeeze out the excess water and put them in a dome when you put your seeds in them?

    I don't use rw but I think a little bit of something like Thrive is used in the water so I don't know if what you're doing is OK for sprouts.

    :peace:
     
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  13.  
    NapalmZen

    NapalmZen Well-Known Member

    what oldmeduser said.

    i want to post some pics. they may help or you may ignore them. it is up to you, but i like to share. i also like to help.

    these are pics of my root tea using the same microbes as you in this method >Link< i actually changed it a bit and bred them in my nute solution before filling my buckets. im doing this as a test and may never do it again or may keep it going for the foreseeable future. what i will say is that i have never gone through PH down faster.
    20170115_100811.jpg 20170115_100829.jpg 20170115_100901.jpg 20170115_100923.jpg 20170115_101514.jpg 20170115_102046.jpg 20170115_105719.jpg

    here is how i start my seeds. i soak the rockwool in tap for 20 minutes, then toss the seeds in and cover them. i then put the cube under something that acts as a humidity dome and toss them on top of my fridge. the seeds shown are bell pepper seeds.
    20170115_105924.jpg 20170115_105940.jpg 20170115_105949.jpg
     
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  14.  
    NapalmZen

    NapalmZen Well-Known Member

    i ran out of space for pics, but here is one of some tomato seeds.

    as soon as the seeds sprout, i put them in their final media. for hydro, i would toss them strait into the hydroton, and for soil, i will toss them strait into their dirt. transplants may occur again if they outgrow their pot.

    20170115_105847.jpg

    EDIT:
    using bennies creates your own beneficial slime that will attack invasive species. they also help with nutrient uptake by breaking down and making nutrients easier to absorb without destroying the nutrients. they also allow you to run a much warmer system.

    ill post some links every newb should have

    http://www.rollitup.org/t/dwc-information-thread-for-everyone.473122/

    http://www.growweedeasy.com/scrog-tutorial#topping

    http://www.using-hydrogen-peroxide.com/gardening-with-hydrogen-peroxide.html

    http://www.lucasformula.com/ <be careful, there are two different strengths of this formula that depend on light and co2 levels. if you are running led, cfl, or <400w hps without co2, use the weaker strength formula. otherwise you will get bad nutrient burn.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jan 15, 2017 at 12:52 PM
  15.  
    VRZ711

    VRZ711 Active Member

    yes sure thats what im planning to do, just soaking the rockwool until i get my seeds, i will use paper towel, then plant them and cover with dome, until they have little roots coming out, then ill transplant into the DWC
     
  16.  
    VRZ711

    VRZ711 Active Member

    i would never ignore all your efforts, on the contrary i loved all the help and perfect info you have provided me with, and based on your comment earlier, i started brewing the tea with subculture m and b and little brown sugar, i want the bennnies to colonize inside the rockwool just before i put the seeds inside. and after that i can place them on my laptop charger.

    To give more details about my setup,
    • I have 10 Gallon res with 3 lids on top, completely light sealed using aluminum foil.
    • im using hydroton as medium and rockwool plugs
    • the area is well ventilated temps don't go above 70
    • lights 250 watts MH for veg and 250 HPS for flower
    • also i will add plenty of CFLs maybe 6 more
    • i have small 15 watts LED, i will use also.
    • there is plenty of CO2 in the air as im a smoker and the grow room ventilation will suck all the CO2 from my room to the grow room
    • i have GH flora Trio only
    • i have subculture B and M
    • calibrated PH meter
    • i use frozen water bottles to keep temps cool in the res
    • i will grow Auto Caramelicious Feminized from MSNL
    • Humidity is 35-50% as i live by the sea
    • i have top feed line for the 3 pots
    • i keep the grow room clean all the time
    • and i use fountain water with cal mag in it PPM is 130
    • 2 airstones with powerful 2 outlets air pump
    please let me know if you need any more info.
    and i appreciate your help for my first grow.
     
  17.  
    OldMedUser

    OldMedUser Well-Known Member

    That's good advice right there. With intense lighting and CO2 you can run way higher levels of nutes that would burn the crap out of your plants with lower light. Same thing with high temps and low RH. Nute levels need to be much lower as the plant is transpiring much more water and will pull in more nutes than it can put to use growing plant material so they get stored in the leaves leading to toxic salts buildup.

    +++ Reps!

    :peace:
     
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