STATE has been given 1.2 million to close all dispensaries !

and then we must reckon with the fact that the Act does indeed have words like
" in accordance with this Act"
"do not exceed any of the following"
"sale of marihuana as felony"= (Criminal,)
"connected through the department's registration process."
"felony punishable by imprisonment"
"as allowed under this act"
"evidence that conduct related to marihuana was not for the purpose of alleviating the qualifying patient's"
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(bx2jr3ennvp5zsw0ctkynjnt))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-333-26424

greg nr said:

The controlled substances act makes us all criminal......

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It sure seems that way given the last half century of legal equivocation and precedents within our criminal courts. The War on Drugs is indeed a war on us. Although, under what constitutional authority and/or jurisdiction does our "criminal justice system" derive the right to declare war on American citizens

chemphlegm said:

and then we must reckon with the fact that the Act does indeed have words like
" in accordance with this Act"
"do not exceed any of the following"
"sale of marihuana as felony"= (Criminal,)
"connected through the department's registration process."
"felony punishable by imprisonment"
"as allowed under this act"
"evidence that conduct related to marihuana was not for the purpose of alleviating the qualifying patient's"
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(bx2jr3ennvp5zsw0ctkynjnt))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-333-26424

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Does a patient even need to be a registered card holder to be covered under the affirmative criminal defense provision of the law (Sec 8 MMMA)

TheMan13 said:

It sure seems that way given the last half century of legal equivocation and precedents within our criminal courts. The War on Drugs is indeed a war on us. Although, under what constitutional authority and/or jurisdiction does our "criminal justice system" derive the right to declare war

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I hear ya, but technically the potus doesn't have the right to declare war (that is reserved for congress), but congress hasn't technically declared war since WWII. Korea was a police action. Vietnam was just a big f'in mistake. And Iraq and Afghanistan are just conflicts.

So yeah, lots of undeclared wars have been waged for all kinds of reasons.

greg nr said:

I hear ya, but technically the potus doesn't have the right to declare war (that is reserved for congress), but congress hasn't technically declared war since WWII. Korea was a police action. Vietnam was just a big f'in mistake. And Iraq and Afghanistan are just conflicts.

So yeah, lots of undeclared wars have been waged for all kinds of reasons.

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You oddly left out Obama's war in Libya and the "legal" technicalities he used, but we transgress ...

We are talking about domestic, not international war/conflict here.

TheMan13 said:

You oddly left out Obama's war in Libya and the "legal" technicalities he used, but we transgress ...

We are talking about domestic, not international war here.

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Well, at least obama asked congress for authority. Congress had to do their hair and couldn't be bothered.

Just an analogy. I wasn't conflating actual war to a marketing slogan. The war on drugs wasn't actually against drugs, it was a war on people who use drugs and those who supplied them. They never actually targeted drugs. In fact, the CIA actively profited off of them. But again, I digress.

LoL @ my misuse of the word transgress vs digress. Must be Freudian

TheMan13 said:

Does a patient even need to be a registered card holder to be covered under the affirmative criminal defense provision of the law (Sec 8 MMMA)

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nope, but they cannot grow without the state permission/registration process.

chemphlegm said:

nope, but they cannot grow without the state permission/registration process.

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Really So in your view/legal equivocation of section 8 the criminal excusability transcends only some of the arbitrary civil requirements of LARA? So that same patient that refuses to be documented by LARA in fear of federal criminal law becomes a criminal when planting a seed or reasonably providing an uninterrupted supply of the medicine to themselves? I'm not following ...

I'm not trying to make a reciprocity argument here, regardless that it does expose some of the same wrongful legal equivocation. I am attempting to juxtapose sections 4 and 8 (aka civil vs criminal) of our law to expose the absurdity of the legal equivocation found sadly standing in even some criminal case law here. I would argue that those decisions are ethically corrupted and motivated by conflict of interest (aka the Drug War), but to who? Their private union/licensing authority (the only privately head professional licensing authority in this nation) the American Barr Association LoL They're playing a game we will never win in this manner. Slavery was "legal" until the Civil War ...


^^^ Absurd right?

man I'm with you, really. I dont want any of this to put people in jail. I wish it was left alone. Thing is its not. I understand the difference between what is defensible and what is illegal. We are not here to put patients in front of a bus to see what happens. We're here to inform them of what is rule and what will happen if it isnt followed.

trying to defend parts to fit is great, I'm all in. lets sit round and come up with ways to help defense attorneys. but trying to say selling to five hundred card holders at a time- for instance- is allowed in our Act is absurd.
We should get over that single hurdle before tackling or creating any others for clarity. Or more clearly watch closely how advocates dodge it, defend it, and make it go away while we raise money for them to continue the possibly inherent futile cause. Deception is a lie no matter which side is using it to get their way. i wont have it on either.

Not what is defensible, nor what can be argued nor what we wish it was nor what we can vote it to be, but what actually is written in our Act. five patients, not five hundred right?

Sure if dispensaries had been designed into the law and were to be licensed/regulated by LARA, but the MMMA petitioners didn't go that far in the language intentionally due to the complexities. I don't believe criminal state's attorneys and judges have the right to interpret simply the absence of any such language in MMMA into a criminal exclusion under the law.

Then again that's just my educated and what I believe to be "reasonable" opinion and I'm obviously not a lawyer

we're not discussing the absence of wording, on the contrary we are speaking of very specific wording concerning how many patients a card holding caregiver can sell to at one time. no matter what the building name he conducts business under. nobody cares if he's dumb enough to rent a building and dress it up while selling to his five patients. but thats not what we are discussing is it?

one caregiver can sell to five patients at a time. does anyone NOT see this in our Act?

I don't see the problem with a self regulated market emerging to fill the real word gaps in the patient/caregiver model written in the language if it is to reasonably providing an uninterrupted supply of the medicine to patients or even caregivers. It just makes sense to me to provide these entities MMMA section 8 protections under the law. After all is that not the same "reasonable" business model MMFLA is loosely built on before the lobbying?

I am saying it is not allowed in MI this moment to sell to more than five patients and this inherently negates any dispensary efforts.
laws are changing, and only dispensaries will be able to sell to more than five patients and not caregivers. this is not a result of any of those hundreds of whack pot shops up and down 8 mile, none of them. the law will appoint those brethren which they are endeared to operate said facilities. The efforts of all these supposed marijuana(dispensary) advocates becomes a joke all at once then.

@chemphlegm Are you Esq.?

TheMan13 said:

@chemphlegm Are you Esq.?

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of course not, never affiliated with the law-courts, lawyers or cops.

@TheMan13 Are you a dispensary interest?

whoa i am seeing double

chemphlegm said:

of course not, never affiliated with the law-courts, lawyers or cops.

@TheMan13 Are you a dispensary interest?

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Definitely not. I'm a disabled vet and could not even afford to be a dispensary patron as a customer LoL

TheMan13 said:

Definitely not. I'm a disabled vet and could not even afford to be a dispensary patron as a customer LoL

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good to meet you. thank you for your service.
I'm a disabled recovering catholic 40 years clean.


(had MI dispensaries represented the medical marijuana community in a more sensible fashion I would
have supported their activities. They were an embarrassment though, every time I visited, -every patient story, every news spin, every walking marijuana leaf, every neon sign, every seedy appearance they made.
their anti cg testimony, lack of security/protections for private information, etc blew it for me. They invited cops to come down hard on the movement while law abiding cg's and patients were finally enjoying a lifetimes worth of hiding and suffering and jailing and arresting with little fear from the law. They essentially changed our cause, and just wait till this comes to fruition. they could have easily serviced hundreds of folks without a neon sign out front. they could have kept their mouths shut, they could have supplied exceptional weed instead of subpar grower gram a week fodder, the could have supported their very own suppliers instead of throwing us under the bus for their hopeful profits. )

Here's a viewpoint for the dispensary interest.

I started growing personal meds 4 years ago after a life long history of being around good pot.

because the dispensaries near me offered low potency barn smelling weed that after a short while had me coughing up black stuff.

And it offered no medical benefits and cost more than double what I had ever paid before.


And a local meth dealer and a local family of pot dealers both got shut down for running their criminal operations and I have not been to one since.

Mold is a severe allergy causing substance to me and Mrs. MMG. Cash croppers will not destroy bad product like I would. They will continue to sell it. Let's not even start about the fuckin pesticides and pgr's.