Stretching Problems Early On

rs444

Member
I have problems with my plants stretching, they are about 3 weeks old, I had a big 125 watt CFL light, hanging horizantly and they were doing fine, but then half the bulb stopped working.

So i bought a big 250 watt CFL with reflector, thought this would be better but it seems to have made them stretch immensensly, especially the leaves. The light is close enough and there is plenty of light what could be the problem?

This is the light I have got...

http://www.thegrowersshop.co.uk/eco-light-cfl-reflector-with-red-250w-cfl-bulb-130-p.asp

do i need more light?
 

jondamon

Well-Known Member
did you get the blue spectrum 6400k CFL as that one you linked is red 2700kwhich could cause stretch if you're vegging????


J
 

rs444

Member
Sorry i just posted that pic to show how the light looked, i should have been more clear it was definetly blue spectrum....

They were fine when the 125 watt light was just hanging between the plants, I thought this would have been better....
 

THE GAME

New Member
Sorry i just posted that pic to show how the light looked, i should have been more clear it was definetly blue spectrum....

They were fine when the 125 watt light was just hanging between the plants, I thought this would have been better....
is the light as close as you can get it and are you sure its a blue spectrum lamp as it should be red.
 

cowell

Well-Known Member
He's vegging... blue spectrum is what he wants.

Some stretching could be accredited to strain. What kind of weed you growing rs? Do you have pics for people to check out your set up? Most stretching is due to low wattage of lights, or too far away from plant tops... The second is due to light timing. What are you running right now?
If you run your veg 24/0 you get less stretch to your plants. You will find even if you veg 18/6, when you switch the lights to 12/12 the plants will stretch during the dark hours for the first 3 weeks until it sets into it's flowering cycle.

Edit: that is to say they stretch during lights out.
 

jawbrodt

Well-Known Member
^Thanks for the link, much appreciated. That explains why when I had MH and HPS side-by-side, that the MH stretched more. I had thought it was due to the MH's lack of intensity(both 400 watts), but now I know otherwise. Also, I switched out all my 5000K fluoro bulbs, for 6500K and while the plants were still really nice, I could've sworn that they did better under the 5000K's. I'm planning on doing a side-by-side testing that, as we speak. And, after reading your link, I'm pretty certain that the 5000K is going to grow the nicer plants. I also have 3000K, but that will have to be another test. I only have two 6-bulb lights.lol
 

THE GAME

New Member
Seedlings stretch due to the influence various factors. In other words the way the genotype is expressed is determined by the biotic and abiotic factors affecting its growth. The site where the plants are grown may be conducive to stretching due to a nutrient deficiency or other factors like temperature or day length.

The source of the seed is also important. If the environment that the plants were from originally was consistant from year to year (for instance, indoors) and/or encouraged stretchy plants (crowding), natural selection may have passed on the trait for stretchy plants. If the seeds were from hybrid plants that were crossed "Willy-nilly" the variation of the offspring will blur the distiction of phenotypes.

When plants stretch due to competition for light, this is known as the "shade avoidance response phenotype" (SARP). The light reflected off of other plants has less red in it because the leaves of the other plants absorbed it already. This is how the plant knows how close it is to its neighbors. When there is less red, the plant stretches so it can compete better for the light. HPS lights are high in red spectrum, so plants grown under them stretch less.

Plants match their phenotype with the environment, but this can depend on other factors. Temperature and photoperiod can affect the response to red light by limiting which phenotypes are expressed. Higher temperatures, shorter photoperiods and dense planting make the plant more sensitive in its response to the amount of red.

The SARP is really an interaction between abiotic factors and the quality of light. The size of a plant that has stretched may be larger than a plant grown under a full spectrum, but overall yield will be less. A plant grown under a short photoperiod is more sensitive to red, but a plant with a long photoperiod period will stretch regardless of the spectrum because it has time to make a longer stem. In fact under longer photoperiods, the plants become less sensitive to red because seedling elongation affects the health of the adult plant.

The seedling is aware of it surroundings. The SARP isn't affected by photoperiod in a seedling because the seedling has to be aware of the density of the population, but if the day-length is short enough to induce flowering, then they will stretch. An elongated plant costs more to grow because your growing more stem and less bud. So under conditions of dense planting the temp and the photoperiod determne how close to plant to minimize stretching.

(growfaq)
 

Mr Smith

Well-Known Member
New seedlings stretch because they're trying to reach more intense light. Genetics can be a factor, but it's usually because the light source is too far away. I position my T5's right down on top of them and most don't stretch anymore. Upward growth slows and the stem and leaves get bigger. About a week of that and I move them to the Halides.
 

doc111

Well-Known Member
I found this interesting. It didn't come from a cannabis specific website but it talks about how the different wavelengths affect plant growth in general. I included the link from the website this article came from. Enjoy!:weed:

http://www.gardenguides.com/74951-colored-light-affect-plant-growth.html


Light Quality

Light quality refers to the color, or wavelength, of light that's emitted from any light source. Phytochrome is a family of proteins within each plant that allows them to sense the colors of light. Sunlight contains the full spectrum, or wavelengths, of light that plants need to complete photosynthesis. Photosynthesis is the process by which plants transform light energy into food and oxygen. A prism will break the spectrum of color from the sun into bands of red, blue, indigo, violet, green, orange and yellow. Even though plants use all colors of the light spectrum, red and blue are the two primary colors necessary to complete the energy conversion. The amount of red and blue light within a light source will affect plant growth in different ways. Green is reflected rather than absorbed by plants, which is why they appear green.
Blue Light

Blue light regulates the rate of a plants growth and is especially helpful in plants with lots of vegetation and few to no flowers. Blue light regulates many plant responses including stomata opening and phototropism. Stomata are openings on or beneath the surface of the leaves. A plant's moisture loss is primarily due to the stomata and blue light controls the degree of stomata opening, therefore blue light regulates the amount of water a plant retains or expels. Phototropism is the definition of a plant's response to light; the stems grow up toward the light and the roots grow down, away from the light. Metal halide grow lights emit more light in the blue spectrum and are the best source of indoor lighting to use for plant growth if there is no sunlight available.
Advanced LED Grow Lights www.AdvancedLEDLights.com/NEW
Big Yields, Less Heat, Guaranteed! NEW LED Grow Lights - 3w USA LEDs



Red Light

Red and orange light triggers hormones in plants that increase flowering and budding, but plants cannot grow with red light alone. They also need blue light to help regulate other types of responses. Red light stimulates flowering and foliage growth, but too much red light will cause a plant to become spindly. HPS (high-pressure sodium) grow lights emit a red orange glow and are excellent companion lights for growing conditions that include some natural sunlight or other light sources with high levels of blue light. Red light induces germination and blue light promotes seed growth, but far-red light inhibits germination.
 

rs444

Member
Well my plants are like 2 inch from the light, so there close enough, any closer they would touch the plants, its 1 x 250 Watt giant CFL light with relflector in a grow tent.

I just dont understand.... They are on a 18/6 cycle. Oh this only started when i switched lights.....

Strain is blue cheese, will post pics when I get chance.
 

fabodnickMD

Member
He's vegging... blue spectrum is what he wants.

Some stretching could be accredited to strain. What kind of weed you growing rs? Do you have pics for people to check out your set up? Most stretching is due to low wattage of lights, or too far away from plant tops... The second is due to light timing. What are you running right now?
If you run your veg 24/0 you get less stretch to your plants. You will find even if you veg 18/6, when you switch the lights to 12/12 the plants will stretch during the dark hours for the first 3 weeks until it sets into it's flowering cycle.

Edit: that is to say they stretch during lights out.

This is absolutely right....but......I have 1 - 125w 6500k and various wattage (=276w) 2700k CFL's = 391w, (about 1173 equivalent) in a 2x2x4 space, going for the veg stage, that i am flipping tonight to 12/12 and I will be running both through the entire grow, I am quite sure that i will get some stretch out of the first two weeks of extended dark, but the spectrum that I am using will remain constant............it will have to be the light period change that dictates the lateral growth as well as the vertical......
 

fabodnickMD

Member
This is absolutely right....but......I have 1 - 125w 6500k and various wattage (=276w) 2700k CFL's = 391w, (about 1173 equivalent) in a 2x2x4 space, going for the veg stage, that i am flipping tonight to 12/12 and I will be running both through the entire grow, I am quite sure that i will get some stretch out of the first two weeks of extended dark, but the spectrum that I am using will remain constant............it will have to be the light period change that dictates the lateral growth as well as the vertical......
..ooops! I have 405w = 1275 equivalent.......sorry bout that
 

cowell

Well-Known Member
Fab... Don't buy into the "equivalency" crap. CFL's don't penetrate like HID lighting, and your harvest will not come close to what I get from 1000 watt light. It's the way they are advertised, and it'll be misleading until you've grown with HID lighting. You are growing with 400 watts. I don't follow cfl grows, please post one where the guy is yanking lbs.. I'd like to know I'm wrong... if I'm wrong. I estimate 400 grams or less. Let me know what you get.

To THE GAME- red spectrum will induce more stretch.. not less. Doc's last post about info is closest to the facts about the spectrum effects on the plant. You are tossing around some more advanced growing info.. but it's not totally correct.. so either you really know your shit and you're trying to twist things enough to make people who don't know as much feel inferior.. or you are just not "getting" the correct info.. Far red is heat BTW. Black heat lights are an example... or an incandescent lightbulb wrapped with black paper to filter out the light. You can increase the photosynthesis time of your plants in flower, but this and adding UVB light -it's not the subject of discussion.. Mixed spectrum is good though.. but you want to focus on blue spectrum for veg - if that's what we are talking about.

Have a happy Halloween to those celebrating it tonight!
 

fabodnickMD

Member
Fab... Don't buy into the "equivalency" crap. CFL's don't penetrate like HID lighting, and your harvest will not come close to what I get from 1000 watt light. It's the way they are advertised, and it'll be misleading until you've grown with HID lighting. You are growing with 400 watts. I don't follow cfl grows, please post one where the guy is yanking lbs.. I'd like to know I'm wrong... if I'm wrong.
I have to tend to agree with this.....for now....my experience is with HID, and to that affect, yes, there are benefits....BUT.......I am currently doing with what I have to work with, and should I pull more (or less) than that LB I will be posting it. I have a full 2k HID grow that I have yet to post, it brings up a raw spot in why I am where I am at this point. I am going CFL due to a really bad Business deal and "friends'.....enough said. I will keep you posted, I have a pretty good working knowledge of the DWC Lucas method, and if I can pull twice the wattage (actual) I will be happy.

Heres the link even though you arent going to follow it.....https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/378441-trailer-park-bagseed-cfl-grow.html

We are both going to find out at the same time whats what here......I figure if I can get huge MOMS from CFL, I can pull Massive Nugs from the same....we will see.


L8TR PEEPS
 

jawbrodt

Well-Known Member
I have to tend to agree with this.....for now....my experience is with HID, and to that affect, yes, there are benefits....BUT.......I am currently doing with what I have to work with, and should I pull more (or less) than that LB I will be posting it. I have a full 2k HID grow that I have yet to post, it brings up a raw spot in why I am where I am at this point. I am going CFL due to a really bad Business deal and "friends'.....enough said. I will keep you posted, I have a pretty good working knowledge of the DWC Lucas method, and if I can pull twice the wattage (actual) I will be happy.

Heres the link even though you arent going to follow it.....https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/378441-trailer-park-bagseed-cfl-grow.html

We are both going to find out at the same time whats what here......I figure if I can get huge MOMS from CFL, I can pull Massive Nugs from the same....we will see.


L8TR PEEPS
Not to be a dick, but if you manage to pull 2 grams per watt, with CFLs, I'll kiss your ass.lol Actually, I'll kiss your ass if you pull 1 gram per watt. :razz:

Sorry to hear about your "friends", that sucks ass. I had to shut down completely, for about 3 months, because of too many big mouths(my fault, of course.lol).
 

fabodnickMD

Member
Not to be a dick, but if you manage to pull 2 grams per watt, with CFLs, I'll kiss your ass.lol Actually, I'll kiss your ass if you pull 1 gram per watt. :razz:
....I found out a long time ago that limitations were meant for those who lack imagination and the will to excel, that being said, I hope to prove you "misinformed" so to speak.
.......................I am aware of factors beyond lighting, which have a major impact on growth and flowering in general. I aim to hopefully eliminate my dependence on HID for hi yeild grows. Just the elimination of heating control systems alone could make it worth the effort. Not everyone out there is able to maintain HID type grow rooms, there are alot of people that wont even grow because of all of the factors that are involved, but I digress, and again have to point out that I am doing this to gain knowledge of a new and expanding "class" of growers that are not in this for the money, but need MMJ for use as a means of relief from ailments. It only makes sense to put my best effort into it.

.......stay tuned, you just may be gettin the lip balm out for this.........................
 
Top