Taking of fan leaves in veg

Hey guys this year is my first grow an i have heard a lot of mixed opinions about this, During veg is it best to take off fan leaves so you can open up more light to the bottom stuff? Some people say that they are the factory to your plant an others say open the light for it. Also do i want to get rid of the leaves coming in close to the stock? Help!?!?!

Don't remove any leaves unless they're dead or infected w/bugs or fungus...during flower s late stages you can lollipop or try to maximize light exposure... during veg you'll just stunt growth

Definetly makes sence, thank you very much for your input!

I'm all for removing of leaves to provide light to a node.

I could never understand how some people think removing fan leaves is good for the plant. beats the hell out of me.

I have done my own experimenting on this, one i took most of the HUGE fan leaves off, the other i LST'd and took all the fan leaves off, and the other i left like a bush....I'm mostly doing this to see how it will affect my yield come harvest time....Kinda new to growing so, i'm experimenting to learn for myself... LST(most) fan leaves gone and me lil bush lol
I don't really see no bad affect from none of these methods yet, BUT we will see how the yield is.......I would say if you can....experiment yourself,,, Best way to learn, that and get info from ppl here on RIU

I do it indoors to an extent , Outdoors the sun has no problem lighting the plants needs.,

If the leaf is in the way, move it...bend it over, tuck it under, bend the branches, etc.

DeeTee said:

I could never understand how some people think removing fan leaves is good for the plant. beats the hell out of me.

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Well maybe look at it this way, these plants have grown wild forever, mother nature as a gardener is quite a bitch, between the bugs, animals, wind, hail, these plants have seen it all and come to the party prepared for anything. A little pruning from gardener done with care and accuracy will not harm them one bit when compared to their evolutionary hardships. Toss into the mix, high humidity, fake air, and cramped quarters from our indoor environment, I would say its not only a good thing but possibly necessary in some instances.

AS you can see there are differences in opinion on what to do, I like SirGanga answer but I personally do not take any leaf off unless they are dead. I know lots of guys who say things like I'm growing bud not leaf bla, bla, bla. So I think the best answer is educate yourself on how plants work and then decide.

My 2 cents is don't do it.

So here is a start

Carbon dioxide enters, while water and oxygen exit, through a leaf's stomata. Stomata control a trade-off for the plant: they allow carbon dioxide in, but they also let precious water escape.

Levels of carbon dioxide in Earth's atmosphere change over time — so at times when the atmosphere is carbon-dioxide-rich, plants can get away with having fewer stomata since each individual stoma will be able to bring in more carbon dioxide. During those high-carbon-dioxide times, plants with fewer stomata will have an advantage and will be common. On the other hand, when carbon dioxide levels are low, plants need many stomata in order to scrape together enough carbon dioxide to survive. During low-carbon-dioxide times, plants with more stomata will have an advantage and will be common.
Stomata of fossil plants can be used to directly estimate past carbon dioxide levels, and those carbon dioxide levels can then be used to make an indirect estimate of temperature. Typically (although there are exceptions to the rule), fossils with many stomata (low carbon dioxide) came from times of low global temperature, and fossils with few stomata (high carbon dioxide) came from times of high global temperatures.

Humidity plays a major role in plant growth, and it's effects are often underestimated or overlooked.
Plants breathe through tiny openings on the undersides of their leaves called stomata. Plants can (and do) open and close their stomata under certain conditions, for example if heat becomes excessive and causes a plant to start loosing more water than it can take up, the plant will close it's stomata to slow down the water loss.

Unfortunately, by closing the stomata and slowing evaporation the plant also has slowed down it's cooling mechanism. This causes heat to build up in the plant tissue, and in temperature too hot the plant actually cooks itself. It is important to understand the opening and closing of the stomata and how it, in turn, controls plant transpiration.

Plant transpiration is how plants breath. Plants do not have lungs, however, so when molecules of gas and water vapor are released from the stomata they tend to just hang there in the absence of any breeze. That is why it is so important to have box fans or oscillating fans in a garden to circulate the air (in addition to exhaust fans). These fans are actually like the plant's lungs, and without them the plants would have no way of moving fresh CO2 molecules into contact with their plant tissue. The plants would slowly choke on their own transpired gasses and water vapor. As water evaporates from the surfaces of leaves, the surface tension of the water molecules tend to pull the next water molecule along behind it, up through the plant's veins. Water is pulled up through the plant stem, which is pulled from the plant's roots. This creates a negative water pressure in the root zone and allows the roots to suck moisture up out of the root zone like a straw. The process of water absorbing into the plant through the roots is known as osmosis.

Which brings me back to humidity. Water vapor is humidity. As a plant transpires, the humidity immediately surrounding the leaves will become saturated with water vapor. Now, the entire plant transpiration cycle is controlled by evaporation. When gasses surrounding a leaf become saturated with water vapor (100% humidity), there is no place for the next molecule of water vapor to evaporate to.
The end result is that water vapor is not evaporating, so water is not being drawn up from the root zone...and neither are any nutrients. If nutrients are not being taken up, than developing fruits are not getting the food they need to be healthy. This is exactly why high humidity will cause blossom end rot in fruiting tomatoes just like a Calcium deficiency. It is another reason why it is so important to keep box fans and oscillating fans in the garden area to keep the air circulating.

So, evaporation controls plant transpiration. High temperatures and low humidity therefore both cause fast transpiration. Fast transpiration means your plants will be taking up and using lots of water (and nutrients). This is fine, unless you were feeding your plants strong to begin with. Your plants can only handle so much fertilizer within a specific period of time. So if you now have warm temperatures, low humidity, and fast transpiration rates you may find your plants are using a little too much fertilizer a little too quickly. Leaf tip burn is usually a sign of this. Under these circumstances you can feed your plants with a weaker nutrient solution. Or, if all other plant growth influencing factors are in their ideal ranges, you can try to maximize plant growth by adding Co2 (in which case you should experience heavy plant growth without showing any signs of stress or damage.

woodsmaneh! said:

My 2 cents is don't do it.



Humidity plays a major role in plant growth, and it's effects are often underestimated or overlooked.
Plants breathe through tiny openings on the undersides of their leaves called stomata. Plants can (and do) open and close their stomata under certain conditions, for example if heat becomes excessive and causes a plant to start loosing more water than it can take up, the plant will close it's stomata to slow down the water loss.


Which brings me back to humidity. Water vapor is humidity. As a plant transpires, the humidity immediately surrounding the leaves will become saturated with water vapor. Now, the entire plant transpiration cycle is controlled by evaporation. When gasses surrounding a leaf become saturated with water vapor (100% humidity), there is no place for the next molecule of water vapor to evaporate to.
The end result is that water vapor is not evaporating, so water is not being drawn up from the root zone...and neither are any nutrients. If nutrients are not being taken up, than developing fruits are not getting the food they need to be healthy. This is exactly why high humidity will cause blossom end rot in fruiting tomatoes just like a Calcium deficiency. It is another reason why it is so important to keep box fans and oscillating fans in the garden area to keep the air circulating.

So, evaporation controls plant transpiration. High temperatures and low humidity therefore both cause fast transpiration. Fast transpiration means your plants will be taking up and using lots of water (and nutrients). This is fine, unless you were feeding your plants strong to begin with. Your plants can only handle so much fertilizer within a specific period of time. So if you now have warm temperatures, low humidity, and fast transpiration rates you may find your plants are using a little too much fertilizer a little too quickly. Leaf tip burn is usually a sign of this. Under these circumstances you can feed your plants with a weaker nutrient solution. Or, if all other plant growth influencing factors are in their ideal ranges, you can try to maximize plant growth by adding Co2 (in which case you should experience heavy plant growth without showing any signs of stress or damage.

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Very sound information and I do agree with the anatomy of a plant and how it works...The concern for most growers that pick is air movement and moisture issues. The guys that come on here picking leaves to open bud sites to light, just don't understand and have the wrong idea of de-foliation. A plant is programmed to produce X amount, its dictated by its genetics. It will try to produce that X amount on one branch or 1000 little bud site, it doesn't have preference its their to produce seeds for the next year...survival. Personally I think its a balancing act between environment and leaf control to try to get to that X amount in an indoor environment, where everything is actually against you right off the bat. Control is the key.

What about re-veg projects?. I'm not sure how everyone else deals with this, but the fan leaves grow towards the center of the plant...effectively blocking all light on lower 2 thirds.

That's the only time I remove outside of my annual winter battle against mites.

Well there you have it, there are pros and cons, so take your choice.

That's why out door plants thrive and yield more . Out door can use photosynthesis to the fulliest. IMO. Indoors I believe pruning 50 % fan leaves and week lower branches helps bud density and structure. just my 02 . Some say absolutely not. I've done my own side by side and believe so. I think 50 % or less foliage is sufficient enough for photosynthesis in doors.

think of the leaves as solor panels for the plant . lol.. i know alot of people that pull everyone of them off outside and i just shake my head when i see how their plants are doing in mid summer compared to mine with every last leave it grows, i get upset seeing any of them get bad or broken even when getting closer to finishing up i just pull the ones that fall off when ya tap them with ya finger and not until then period

TWS said:

That's why out door plants thrive and yield more . Out door can use photosynthesis to the fulliest. IMO. Indoors I believe pruning 50 % fan leaves and week lower branches helps bud density and structure. just my 02 . Some say absolutely not. I've done my own side by side and believe so. I think 50 % or less foliage is sufficient enough for photosynthesis in doors.

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No they actually thrive because of 3 things, HUGE light penetration, FRESH air, and ROOM to spread out as much as it wants. You can take indoor techniques outdoors but you can't take outdoors inside (well not all techniques) I have found that not removing leaves and sucker shoots(bud sites) from the lower branches and the interior site results in roughly the same grams per sq./ft. you end up with 30-50% of your weight as popcorn or small buds however. Its a personal choice and for my room it comes down to air flow, humidity, and little to no popcorn buds.

I lolipop during veg to get the plant how I want it. No need to waste energy growing stuff I don't want. When I do this I only take the fan leaves off when I'm taking a node off at that leaf. If you chop the fan leaf from a bud site, in my experience it will be a much fluffier bud.

zwaghuf said:

I lolipop during veg to get the plant how I want it. No need to waste energy growing stuff I don't want. When I do this I only take the fan leaves off when I'm taking a node off at that leaf. If you chop the fan leaf from a bud site, in my experience it will be a much fluffier bud.

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This is why I remove both, the leaf and the shoot up to a certain height, I try to keep every growing tip within 24-30" from the light. Taking the leaf and not the bud site will actually slow the growth of that branch but remove them both and watch that branch transfer energy upwards, grow faster catching up to the mains. That is how you end up lollipopping.

You guys are very helpful thank you very much!