Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
Daryl Davis has spent decades doing exactly that. I'm pretty sure he has a better understanding of the issue than you do.
The DNC Reports Lowest Fundraising Since 2003
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Fogdog
Well-Known Member
The alt right isn't interested in conversation. Haven't you been listening?
st0wandgrow
Well-Known Member
That's your little crews strategy. If someone dare disagree, they are fat shamed, called ugly, ridiculed over their income, where they live, etc.
From the outside looking in, there is no daylight between you, and the people you mock.
I will defer to people like MLK and Obama who denounce your type of behavior and call on people to use reason and logic. It cannot be denied that racism is a learned behavior, therefor it can be unlearned. That will never happen when they are being talked down to and made fun of. That you can't see that, or are too proud to admit it, says something about you.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
What are you talking about?
Your boys are lighting up and talking about kicking sjw to the curb, calling resistance to hate speech a symptom of weakness.
Your boys are talking about extending the hand of friendship to neo Nazis.
Turning the other cheek is seen as the opportunity by a Nazi to strike again. I'm not advocating the first strike but unwilling to accept that anybody should suffer a second.
Events in Texas (July 2) and West Virginia (Aug 15) marked a turning point in the violence promoted by neo-Nazis. In these events, they went after liberals who were exercising their right to protest against Trump or peacefully protesting against fascism. The radical hate groups turned on protesters who weren't prepared for neo-Nazi attacks. Meanwhile the police stood and watched.
Holding a sign proclaiming love and peace didn't protect anybody when the Proud Boys or Alt Knights showed up. The cops didn't either.
Photo from Apr 16 Rally in Berkeley. The guy was handing out chocolates while Proud Boys were gearing up for a fight.
These actions are just the tip of the iceberg of violence from the alt right. Across the country, hate crimes have been increasing, including random shootings, burning of Mosques and temples, not to mention ICE. Meanwhile, cops have a catch and release policy regarding these people. Most of the arrests that came out of Charlottesville violence came from freelance sleuths who connected photos from the event with online posts and images to identify the creeps. The cops knew all about it but didn't do anything until forced to do so by a judge's order.
And you excoriate people for pointing this out. Pad wants to ally with these people. I don't understand why you'd say I'm the one to blame.
Budget Buds
Well-Known Member
So what do they do when it does not go the're way ? whine about a post to an admin LOL , Sounds like every Hil dog supporter when they didnt get there way last November, You guys are pathetic ....
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
st0wandgrow
Well-Known Member
I'm not saying you're to blame, I'm saying that what goes on here doesn't help.
And of course, if someone clubs you over the head I would expect you (or anyone) to fight back.
I do agree with you on a lot of what you stand in opposition of, I just disagree on how to change it. It seems to have become a political football to kick around
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
Your dishonest tactics are highlighted in this post
I've held a consistent position since the beginning about avoiding violence and protecting free speech, emphasizing the speech is irrelevant unless the law is being broken. Here, you're attempting to conflate what I'm saying with "extending the hand of friendship to neo Nazis".
You're unwilling to accept that a black man has been speaking directly to KKK members for decades and has personally changed their minds through the use of logic, reason, and understanding. He's walked the walk and done exactly what you claim is your goal; defeated racism. All you've done is exacerbate the problem by promoting preemptive violence against people you disagree with politically.
"Pad wants to ally with these people.", another lie. You lie and use dishonest tactics because you can't argue against the substance of the actual arguments being made
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
You misunderstand why I post here.
First, I have a mean streak and a thick skin. I like the give and take here. It's a form of entertainment.
Second, I'm here to learn. As obnoxious as it is to others, confronting people's beliefs can prompt a passionate and honest reply. I'm after unvarnished replies, not comfort food.
Third, I don't think I'm helping or hurting here. I take what I've learned and use it to motivate and guide me in what I do in the meat world. I don't think anybody is going to change based upon what is said here. Early on I did try but realized each time I tried it was like Groundhog Day.
What is that? Right now, I'm mostly calling my reps to let them know I either support or don't support their actions. I've also for the first time started to attend large rallies. Objective is to show support and be a 1st witness to what happens there. The June demonstration in Portland against a hate group's rally was an eye opener to me regarding how the police handle violent fascists with kid gloves while abusing those who oppose them. Antifa aren't the enemy, not from what I saw.
In the real world, I don't engage as I do here. In the real world it is possible to connect and talk with people of opposing views. I don't see it happening here. I mean, come on, we just had a guy joke about the Charlottesville murderous driver and tty and Pad are liking his posts.
That said, I've been startled and disappointed in what the Sanders movement is becoming or was all along and I didn't understand. I've long heard complaints about how white liberals are unrealistic and unreliable allies in the fight against social injustice. It is in this forum that I've begun to understand.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Funny this. Talk about dishonest.
You've taken my posts in a reply and completely over-written them with your own words. And then, argued against your own words. You often extract phrases from other people's texts. Then, with all context removed, apply your own interpretation on them in order to make your own point.
Regarding the passage you copy and pasted about making nice to fascists,
I didn't criticize him. I'm just looking at what all that effort has accomplished. OK, so he has a few people that have been turned. And YET the number of hate groups in this country has doubled in the past 20 years. Hate crimes aren't tracked with any consistency, one can only guess why not. That said, there have been a large number of shootings, Mosque and Temple arson and incidents of random violence related to neo-nazis/white supremacists this year. More than I've ever seen.
You advocate what? Extending the hand of friendship to them? That is a foolish alliance that lends legitimacy to hate groups. They are stepping up their campaign of violence and are now beginning to turn on white liberals holding signs in peaceful demonstrations. They aren't stepping down one bit. In part because Trump lends them legitimacy.
I'm not advocating striking first but I'm not advocating passively taking punishment either. I advocate defense. I advocate overwhelming opposition in numbers to show the Proud Boys and their ilk that they can't win. I put myself on the line too. I advocate whatever they do, give it back to them 1,000 times over. We have strength of numbers and I see no reason to back down. This is a holding action until we can get a government in place who will go after these bastards using the justice system.
Your own rhetoric isn't so clean either, f_g basher. You've even advocated sending people who object to being called cu_t, ni___er, and otherwise denigrated by bigots to mental institutions for reprogramming.
I'm trying really hard to distinguish Bernie from his supporters but it's getting really hard to do so.