The end of LED is nigh. Incandescent will rise again.

GroErr

GroErr

Well-Known Member
Stephenj37826 said:
This may at surface but if you really look into a totally sealed environment (AC) you'll still be running a dehumidifier partially anyways. On the other hand if your exchanging air the humidity case is gone..... Point being if you are one who exchanges air at night during summer but battle heat cobs are the go to solution. Also as stated if you contain the heat from the led Fixtures true it's a different form of heat but the btus aren't disappearing. So the only equal ground hid has is in colder areas who are exchanging air.
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Good point on that, it'd be interesting to poll how many folks are running sealed rooms. Personally I run constant air exchange vs. sealed.
 
genuity

genuity

Well-Known Member
Stephenj37826 said:
What part of the country you in ? You won't get away with that in the summer in the southern states..... Unless you're exchanging a huge amount of air....
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Middle west...USA

On very hot days,I do have to open a window (if I want the canopy temp to be in the 75-78 temp range)
Without,it sits at 80-85...which to me is a nice summer day.

But on the par thing

How? & why is the lower par bulb,showing better growth?
 
Stephenj37826

Stephenj37826

Well-Known Member
GroErr said:
Good point on that, it'd be interesting to poll how many folks are running sealed rooms. Personally I run constant air exchange vs. sealed.
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I think most do honestly exchange air..... Alot of folks have there grows in there air-conditioned house and exchange air without bringing in fresh air. Well they are sucking out the AC from the house making the home heat pump work harder.... So even in this case less required airflow equal lower fan power consumption and less load on the home heat pump......
 
Stephenj37826

Stephenj37826

Well-Known Member
genuity said:
Middle west...USA

On very hot days,I do have to open a window (if I want the canopy temp to be in the 75-78 temp range)
Without,it sits at 80-85...which to me is a nice summer day.

But on the par thing

How? & why is the lower par bulb,showing better growth?
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Lol that video is made by the bulb manufacturer that's trying to sucker people into paying 35+ for a single t5
 
cdgmoney250

cdgmoney250

Well-Known Member
GroErr said:
Good point on that, it'd be interesting to poll how many folks are running sealed rooms. Personally I run constant air exchange vs. sealed.
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IMO, RH/temp concerns are a direct issue of sealed/unsealed. And also how well the grow space is constructed.

Seal an environment with lights and plants.
The RH and ambient temp will surely rise until either exhausted or mitigated.
 
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PurpleBuz

Well-Known Member

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Jeanpaulsastre

Jeanpaulsastre

Member
Is nice to read this thread with such wise arguments. It is very important not to look at one aspect alone, always consider every possible factor. It's been talked about IR, UV AB and visible spectrum, so, maybe putting a little bit of incandescent with LED could actually work better than just HID
 
Stephenj37826

Stephenj37826

Well-Known Member
genuity said:
Good thing you buttered up that post...

Cause don't you sale lights,and do the samething?
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Awwww Man you figured me out lmao. No I'm not eye hortilux.... I don't slap an eye international bulb in a horticulture box and charge double for it.....


This is another pointless thread...... If you refuse to do the math and actually take an intellectual view of the subject then there's nothing more that can be done...... Some died swearing the earth is flat as well.........
 
Greengenes707

Greengenes707

Well-Known Member
Stephenj37826 said:
Here's one for you. If we are going to talk about tech that may or may not ever actually materialize......

http://www.zmescience.com/research/led-over-100-percent-efficiency-mit-94323/

In the meantime do some research...... There is a 2.7 umol/j monochrome greenhouse fixture available right now.......
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Thanks you...I have been waiting since I saw the title for someone to post this.




So incandescent went from 2-6% increase....Good for them right! They needed some hope.

LED went from 40-230%...how...I thought a 4% increase was good according to satvied and leds were now to be left in the dust.

What happen satvied? Why can they actually get there...vs incandescents hoping to get more.
 
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PurpleBuz

Well-Known Member
Sativied said:
New "light recycling" incandescent bulbs could outperform energy-efficient LEDs:
http://www.sciencealert.com/new-light-recycling-incandescent-bulbs-could-outperform-energy-efficient-leds

Return of incandescent light bulbs as MIT makes them more efficient than LEDs
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/12093545/Rearound 60%turn-of-incandescent-light-bulbs-as-MIT-makes-them-more-efficient-than-LEDs.html

It's only a matter of time till phillips and gavita start applying this to hid. :bigjoint:
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This tech will NEVER surpass current white phosphor cob technology to provide higher efficiency.

The researchers are "dreaming" about achieving 40%. Well warm white phosphor cobs are already past the 40% range with practical applications well over 50%.

Every time there is a "phase" change in EMR some energy is lost to raw heat. This technology relies on converting wasted infra red wavelengths back to visible forms of light, forced reemission So consider this:

- Incandescent light produces visible light + Infra Red light (wasted) + heat (wasted).

- New Light Recycler converts some of that wasted Infra Red light into visible light, by reflecting the InfraRed light back to the filament and reemitting the energy. Each reflection/remission cycle loses energy, limiting the maximum efficiency achievable.

- LEDs do not produce the excess wasted Infra Red light to begin with. Mathematically that gives LEDs 100% efficiency in converting Infra Red light back to visible light.


Based on that alone makes the title of this post nothing but a false doomsday cry.

Sativied apparently you didn't even read and comprehend the first article that you linked.
 
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Rahz

Rahz

Well-Known Member
a senile fungus said:
He's not? I've seen him mention multiple times that HPS will warm the surface of the leaf above ambient room temps, resulting in higher leaf temp, and photosynthetic rate. And that he suggests that LED users, because of lack of IR radiation, would need to increase the ambient temp to subsequently increase leaf temp, to reach similar photosynthetic rates, at the same ppfd.

In my words, the efficiency numbers you guys make the end all, end all, are really just moving the goal posts to make the tech more attractive. Ppfd doesn't directly translate into grams. Pure plant metabolism translates into grams. So why not use a metric that measures electrical efficiency of light vs photosynthetic rate or metabolism?
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He suggested same PPFD would result in lower canopy temps, hence the lesser yield using LED, which is fine except in the same post he suggested HID running hot is caused by not enough air exchange (which needs more fan power to remedy). The same principal works in reverse (and uses less fan power).

There's no one factor that translates into grams, but if a person can't make a more efficient light be a good thing it's not the light's fault.
 
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