The most belivable conspiracy theory

Witch one as the most chance of being a real conspiracy?

  • 9/11

    Votes: 4 14.8%
  • JFK assassination

    Votes: 12 44.4%
  • Fake moon landing

    Votes: 1 3.7%
  • Princess Diana aranged accident

    Votes: 2 7.4%
  • Roswell

    Votes: 1 3.7%
  • AIDS a manifactered virus

    Votes: 3 11.1%
  • The OP is an idiotic scaremonger

    Votes: 4 14.8%

  • Total voters
    27
  • Poll closed .

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
1500.

What has more mass and structure? 8 story building in test, or 100 story building? Do you think that both of those buildings were built the exact same? And do you think the differences could be a factor?



It was more than damage to the facade. You are underestimating the damage done to that building.

You are correct, the WTC towers and Bldg 7 were much stronger and more protected than the 8 story test structure. The 8 story test structure didn't have the world 2nd best insulator known to mankind sprayed all over it.

A 1/8inch thick piece of Asbestos will protect you from the heat of a bunson burner (3500F), you can put your hand on it.

The Facade? Bldg 7 gets all of its strength from the steel frame, none of it comes from the walls ( AKA Facade)
 

Antidisestablishmentarian

Well-Known Member
You are correct, the WTC towers and Bldg 7 were much stronger and more protected than the 8 story test structure. The 8 story test structure didn't have the world 2nd best insulator known to mankind sprayed all over it.

A 1/8inch thick piece of Asbestos will protect you from the heat of a bunson burner (3500F), you can put your hand on it.

The Facade? Bldg 7 gets all of its strength from the steel frame, none of it comes from the walls ( AKA Facade)
Yes that asbestos can but which asbestos would you use? Chrysotile? Amosite? Crocidolite? It is also easily dislodged when used in spray on fireproofing. That fireproofing isn't 100% asbestos by the way. Typically at most 70%. The rest is celluose fibers or other fillers. Of all the amazing feats asbestos can perform, sticking to things is not one of them. It is chemically resistant, heat resistant, water resistant and has a high tensile strength and can be broken down into microscopic fibers that hang in the air for a very long time. It is a miracle mineral, but not that miraculous.

You brought up the facade as damaged and in my view, implied that only that the facade was damaged. You made no mention of other damage done to the structure of the building itself. You constantly use the word melt when we discuss weakening not melting.

So you are either purposefully misdirecting people, you just don't understand the intricacies involved, or just plain want to argue.

Honestly I think it's the third option.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
The Oil rig had 358,000 pounds of string weight on it plus 180 feet of 40" Drill collar weighing 800 lbs a foot when it started, of course 14,000 feet of pipe were tossed out of the hole by the pressure of the gas.
So we've established that the derrick in question was spec'd to carry 180 tons of weight and rotate that string against considerable resistance. It still fell. I am not surprised that the BOP wasn't badly heat-damaged. It was, after all, actively cooled by a high-pressure, high-volume mass flow of cool material through it. cn
 
I've never read into Kennedy, but from what I do know I would say is seems plausible. Out of the others, I would definately say Princess Diana.
 

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
Lateral loads on Skyscrapers such as the twin towers are over 100,000 lbs, the buildings could sway up to FOUR feet either way. Skyscrapers are DEFINITELY built to withstansd MASSIVE lateral loads, like HURRICANES so they don't just break off and topple into themselves. Skyscrapers are not designed to fall into themselves either, they are built to not fall period.

You could have 10,000 gallons of diesel fuel and pour it all over one of those buildings and you won't ever get anything to melt or fall over, sorry , won't happen. Not enough energy in open air.

You guys should try to build a forge, then fuel it with as much diesel as you want, hell give 100 billion cubic feet of diesel fuel and see if you can get a 1 pound ingot of structural steel to melt without having to get some kind of forced air apparatus going. Go ahead I dare ya, if you can do it I will sign over my corvette to you.

I LOL at your theory that skyscrapers are not built that way.

FYI I think you will find that Charcoal is much more efficient than Diesel, but good luck anyway.
yes. they sway. when they pass outside their tolerances they dont pull their roots up and topple, they break and fall straight down. skyscrapers are not trees. they do not tip over. they fall DOWN. this has been demonstrated over and over. maybe in sao paolo brazil or mexico city you can find small concrete structures that topple, but not large well engineered buildings on solid rock footings. i can tip over a cow, does this mean a cow cannot fall down a hole when the planks covering it break? does the cow have to tip over and slide sideways before hitting the ground?

skyscrapers are NOT built to tip over and fall as a single unit, they are designed ideally to not fall down at all. this is not theory this is fact. when a large concrete structure exceeds it's sustainable load, it breaks, and gravity takes it down,, not sideways, not in a long ballistic arc, down.

your statements about diesel fuel not getting hot enough to soften steel are ludicrous.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/30/us/30collapse.html

also note the bridge sections fell down, not sideways. if concrete could change it's trajectory based on troofer physics i would make all my bullets out of the stuff. every shot would zigzag downrange like a warren commission special. and that would be awesome.
 

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
It is not treated like nuclear waste and can be deposited in a landfill. They wet the material, wrap it in 6mil poly, then put it in a trench at the landfill.

Learning time:

Asbestos is a natural occurring mineral that we can't expel from our lungs.

Your white blood cells engulf the microscopic fiber but they can not destroy said fiber. The cells then pass into the pleura of your lungs or stomach, where they sit. After 20-40 years you get mesothelioma.

If you are exposed to too many fibers, you develop asbestosis which is a scarring of your lungs.

As for the towers, rumor in my industry is that when it was being built, is when stuff started really coming out on the dangers of asbestos. One tower got the full dose. The other only got a half dose due to the architect being a little freaked by it.

Spray on fireproofing is easily dislodged. Slight finger pressure can displace it. They could have scrapped that here, and lots of it was.

Having said that, I totally do not buy into the 9/11 conspiracy bullshit.
But I can say this qnd know im right: everyone that was within 5 miles was exposed to asbestos. The workers on site will develop one of the following: lung cancer or mesothelioma.

Asbestosis only occurs to those who work up close and personal with mostly raw asbestos day in and day out for 8 or more hours a day.

There are also no laws banning the use of asbestos in America. It can still be used in many products, legally.
just any landfill? not a special toxic waste landfill? ORLY?

asbestos is a class A carcinogen, and is treated as a hazardous substance just like PCB's, Dioxins and medical waste. a little nuclear hyperbole should be understandable now and again as merely for the lulz. asbestos is prohibited in any use where it might conceivably be released into the air (note the Placer County Asbestos Scare of 2009) including natural sources (???!!??!!) like weathering rock formations (Anthropogenic Global Asbestos Release) or "contaminated" vermiculite in running tracks or baseball diamonds (??!!??)

asbestos is prohibited from use in all building materials except those used solely in industry under close supervision, kiln and furnace walls (the industrial kind, not your HVAC unit) and certain heat resistant ceramics. thats it. asbestos cannot be mined anywhere in the US so we import this rock from sout africa canada and other countries where common sense still rules. yes, we buy rocks,, which are abundant and reliable here in the US because the politicians think it's too dangerous for us, but not for canada.

spray on fireproofing is NOT easily dislodged. if it were easy to dislodge it would not be a fire retardant it would be a finger retardant. the stuff is supposed to set up and harden around the girders and trusses, if it crumbles at a touch it was smeared on with a putty knife and chewing gum. the stuff is supposed to stay on the beams not fall into the air conditioning ducts.

despite being highly pedantic, your statement makes no sense.
 

Wordz

Well-Known Member
I figured you were right, so I got my bernz-o-matic torch out. Went through $150 worth of fuel cannisters and I haven't been able to melt even a tiny hole in a tin can yet.

How easy did you say this was?

Smelters have forced air induction, surprise. Or Are you saying that the floors between 77 and 85 were really just a large Smelting operation?
that's weird cuz i cut a tin can in half with a jet lighter.. of course drugs were involved
 

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
I cannot take the siding off my house without putting it in special bags and informing the landfill I am bringing it in.


My siding is made out of asbestos
 

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
I cannot take the siding off my house without putting it in special bags and informing the landfill I am bringing it in.


My siding is made out of asbestos
you got cement shingle siding? that shit is a pain in the ass. it's really just cement sand ans asbestos fibers as a binder (kinda like we use fiberglass now) in some areas you can get a permit to remove the shit and dispose of it as standard waste if you prevent the tiles from breaking. the EPA doesnt like it, but some cities with lots of 1920's through 50's construction have too much of the shit to deal with except by bending the EPA"s rules unless they make the whole town a superfund site.
 

Moses Mobetta

Well-Known Member
I cannot take the siding off my house without putting it in special bags and informing the landfill I am bringing it in.


My siding is made out of asbestos
Last time I removed that stuff the dumpster company sent a container with a giant trash bag - liner inside of it, we had to make sure it all got into the liner and they just hauled it off. Get rid of that shit if you can before the laws change and it costs a fortune to dump it.
 

doc111

Well-Known Member
I do not side with either, i am unconvinced. But this does look pretty fishy. Tower 7 was not hit by a plane, nor was it damaged by either of the other two towers.

[video=youtube;Atbrn4k55lA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Atbrn4k55lA[/video]
Really?:???: Because I was there and actually SAW the MASSIVE damage on the South side of Bldg. 7. There have been pictures of it and NUMEROUS eyewitness accounts by firefighters who saw it with their own eyes. There were fires which burned unchecked inside that building for upwards of 6-7 hours! The damage to the South face, which was caused by a falling chunk of one of the towers, extended for nearly 20 stories! :shock:


http://www.debunking911.com/WTC7.htm



 

Attachments

doc111

Well-Known Member
didn't they measure the sag on WTC 7 throughout the day and notice it deteriorating the whole time?
Yes they did.


Hayden: Yeah. There was enough there and we were marking off. There were a lot of damaged apparatus there that were covered. We tried to get searches in those areas. By now, this is going on into the afternoon, and we were concerned about additional collapse, not only of the Marriott, because there was a good portion of the Marriott still standing, but also we were pretty sure that 7 World Trade Center would collapse. Early on, we saw a bulge in the southwest corner between floors 10 and 13, and we had put a transit on that and we were pretty sure she was going to collapse. You actually could see there was a visible bulge, it ran up about three floors. It came down about 5 o’clock in the afternoon, but by about 2 o’clock in the afternoon we realized this thing was going to collapse.


http://www.debunking911.com/pull.htm
 

doc111

Well-Known Member
so anyway, my bic lighter gets a adiabatic flame temp of 3600F, which is about 1000F higher than the melting point of steel. I figured a car would take too long to melt so I figured a 2 gram thumb tack ought to melt. so far I went through 15 bic lighters and haven't even gotten it to deform yet.

Maybe the media lied and you all bought it?
I spent YEARS in college, fire academy, HUNDREDS of classes on fire behavior, explosives, HazMat...............the list goes on. You are CONSTANTLY comparing apples to oranges and ignoring simple facts and laws of nature. People who have NO clue how buildings collapse and how fire behaves really have NO business debating this stuff. That said, you are certainly free to continue ignoring simple facts (such as no melting of steel was required; only enough heat to WEAKEN it) and showing the world just how much you DON'T KNOW.;-)
 

Antidisestablishmentarian

Well-Known Member
just any landfill? not a special toxic waste landfill? ORLY?

asbestos is a class A carcinogen, and is treated as a hazardous substance just like PCB's, Dioxins and medical waste. a little nuclear hyperbole should be understandable now and again as merely for the lulz. asbestos is prohibited in any use where it might conceivably be released into the air (note the Placer County Asbestos Scare of 2009) including natural sources (???!!??!!) like weathering rock formations (Anthropogenic Global Asbestos Release) or "contaminated" vermiculite in running tracks or baseball diamonds (??!!??)

asbestos is prohibited from use in all building materials except those used solely in industry under close supervision, kiln and furnace walls (the industrial kind, not your HVAC unit) and certain heat resistant ceramics. thats it. asbestos cannot be mined anywhere in the US so we import this rock from sout africa canada and other countries where common sense still rules. yes, we buy rocks,, which are abundant and reliable here in the US because the politicians think it's too dangerous for us, but not for canada.

spray on fireproofing is NOT easily dislodged. if it were easy to dislodge it would not be a fire retardant it would be a finger retardant. the stuff is supposed to set up and harden around the girders and trusses, if it crumbles at a touch it was smeared on with a putty knife and chewing gum. the stuff is supposed to stay on the beams not fall into the air conditioning ducts.

despite being highly pedantic, your statement makes no sense.
No it doesn't have to be a toxic waste landfill. Just one with the license to store it, which is pretty eas to get. They have to keep a lot of records of it, but the ACM(Asbestos Containing Material) is literally wrapped in plastic, dumped in a trench, and covered with dirt. That is it.

Where I live, we use the Dallas Landfill. All other refuse goes there as well.

It is prohibited in use in new products. Mastics, joint compounds, drywall, brakes, shingles, floor tiles, all can still be made with asbestos. They can even be installed(depending on local ordinance). Federally it has to be installed by a licensed asbestos worker. It is illegal to disturb the asbestos, hence me having a job.

I am in the asbestos industry. I work around it, help manage projects to remove it, I perform air monitoring for it during abatements, I look for it under a microscope, I inspect for it in buildngs. I'm licensed to do all of these in my state.

Asbestos was banned until 1991, but then it was unbanned. They did manage to shut down mining for it here. Yes, we import it still to this day.

Here's how it works:

We import products, like drywall or mastic. It contains asbestos.

It gets installed. That isn't illegal. The problem is lawsuits due to exposure from disturbance or natural decay of the product.

Lawsuits have made asbestos not worth the trouble. So we don't make products with it. We don't like to install it, but if it gets disturbed improperly, well you're exposing people. And exposing people is bad.

You have to understand, that mastic in the closet or that stack of drywall over there? The person installing it doesn't know it contains asbestos. The people buying it doesn't know it contains asbestos. Products are tested after installation when a renovation to a public building or demolition of a structure occurs, or a state inspector gets a hair up his ass. No one actually knows it contains asbestos untill we sample it and take it to a lab.

We have limits on how much exposure is allowed, and remember: There is no safe limit of exposure to asbestos.

That limit is .01f/cc. It doesn't sound like a lot, but you have to understand, that equals hundreds of thousands of fibers in a normal sized room that your body cannot expell.

Contaminated Vermiculite: Google Libby, Montana. Vermiculite is a nice substance, but the problem is that tons of it were mined around asbestos. So basically, it has asbestos all over it. As a rule of thumb, you treat all vermiculite as ACM.

Why do i say fire proofing is easily dislodged? They hand scrape it off to remove it. A jet plowing into it would dislodge that asbestos as easily as getting into Snooki's panties. It is a friable material. That means it can be crumbled or pulverized to dust with hand pressure.

I wrote all that while stoned, and actually getting to talk about something I know about outside of work made me excited. Sorry for rambling. My posts aren't typically like that.

I get too passionate when I talk about asbestos. When I enter any structure at any time, I still always look for the possible ACBMs. No more asbestos talk for me I think lol.
 

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
No it doesn't have to be a toxic waste landfill. Just one with the license to store it, which is pretty eas to get. They have to keep a lot of records of it, but the ACM(Asbestos Containing Material) is literally wrapped in plastic, dumped in a trench, and covered with dirt. That is it.

Where I live, we use the Dallas Landfill. All other refuse goes there as well.

It is prohibited in use in new products. Mastics, joint compounds, drywall, brakes, shingles, floor tiles, all can still be made with asbestos. They can even be installed(depending on local ordinance). Federally it has to be installed by a licensed asbestos worker. It is illegal to disturb the asbestos, hence me having a job.

I am in the asbestos industry. I work around it, help manage projects to remove it, I perform air monitoring for it during abatements, I look for it under a microscope, I inspect for it in buildngs. I'm licensed to do all of these in my state.

Asbestos was banned until 1991, but then it was unbanned. They did manage to shut down mining for it here. Yes, we import it still to this day.

Here's how it works:

We import products, like drywall or mastic. It contains asbestos.

It gets installed. That isn't illegal. The problem is lawsuits due to exposure from disturbance or natural decay of the product.

Lawsuits have made asbestos not worth the trouble. So we don't make products with it. We don't like to install it, but if it gets disturbed improperly, well you're exposing people. And exposing people is bad.

You have to understand, that mastic in the closet or that stack of drywall over there? The person installing it doesn't know it contains asbestos. The people buying it doesn't know it contains asbestos. Products are tested after installation when a renovation to a public building or demolition of a structure occurs, or a state inspector gets a hair up his ass. No one actually knows it contains asbestos untill we sample it and take it to a lab.

We have limits on how much exposure is allowed, and remember: There is no safe limit of exposure to asbestos.

That limit is .01f/cc. It doesn't sound like a lot, but you have to understand, that equals hundreds of thousands of fibers in a normal sized room that your body cannot expell.

Contaminated Vermiculite: Google Libby, Montana. Vermiculite is a nice substance, but the problem is that tons of it were mined around asbestos. So basically, it has asbestos all over it. As a rule of thumb, you treat all vermiculite as ACM.

Why do i say fire proofing is easily dislodged? They hand scrape it off to remove it. A jet plowing into it would dislodge that asbestos as easily as getting into Snooki's panties. It is a friable material. That means it can be crumbled or pulverized to dust with hand pressure.

I wrote all that while stoned, and actually getting to talk about something I know about outside of work made me excited. Sorry for rambling. My posts aren't typically like that.

I get too passionate when I talk about asbestos. When I enter any structure at any time, I still always look for the possible ACBMs. No more asbestos talk for me I think lol.
here in california it is banned, and last i heard it was banned in the rest of the country too. in los angeles county it is treated as hazardous waste and is disposed of in a toxic waste facility,, in san francisco county it is treated like it is radioactive,, with triple bagging, constant moisture, and bunny suits with full gasmasks, not just respirators. just 50 miles north i worked for a guy removing the cement shingles off his house for a renovation. that town had so much of the shit they just said fuckit, and let people remove it and put it in the municiple landfill as long as they did their best to keep the tiles from breaking. the EPA even threatened to sue the city,, but they said fuckit, and continued the practice,, and theE PA backed down because it is just rocks.

the libby montana vermiculite mine was tested repeatedly by the epa for decades,, and ONE test showed minute traces of asbestos when the other samples from that same test came back negative. the lab said it was a contaminated test, not contaminated vermiculite, but the fear mongers started a panic, and the mine owners were forced to shut down under the weight of the lolsuits.

in Placer county, natural outcrops of serpentine are releasing tiny traces of asbestos into the atmosphere,, and the entire county was put on alert,, sacramento county was wall to wall wind reports about the terrifying wall of asbestos dust forming a giant carcinogenic duststorm about to descend on the state capitol, for months before the people who are not retarded finally told those assholes to STFU. the fearmongers cried out that the asbestos found in air samples were from vermiculite contaminated by the mine in libby,, so they demanded it all be remocved,, evven when the geologists said it was fron naturally eroding serpentine rocks.as a result every baseball diamond, running track,, dog park, hiking trail and scenic path in 5 counties was dug up and resurfaced with "clean" materials, and not a trace of asbestos was found in any of the vermiculite removed from all those areas. none.

i have not seen brakepads with asbestos in them in decades,, its all metallic,, ceramic or composite materials with no asbestos warnings. if they are putting asbestos back in the pads i forsee many new lolsuits from automechanics and vehicle yard workers for their "mesthelioma"

**cough cough** wheres my three million dollars?

chinese drywall has shittons of asbestos in it though,, and all manner of other crap too, a few years ago there was some that let off a poison gas when it was installed (lol china,, our most favoured nation trade partner and friend)
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
I spent YEARS in college, fire academy, HUNDREDS of classes on fire behavior, explosives, HazMat...............the list goes on. You are CONSTANTLY comparing apples to oranges and ignoring simple facts and laws of nature. People who have NO clue how buildings collapse and how fire behaves really have NO business debating this stuff. That said, you are certainly free to continue ignoring simple facts (such as no melting of steel was required; only enough heat to WEAKEN it) and showing the world just how much you DON'T KNOW.;-)
WHAT??? You disagree with me? Holy Shit!!!! Color me Surprised!!!:shock:
 

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
Last time I removed that stuff the dumpster company sent a container with a giant trash bag - liner inside of it, we had to make sure it all got into the liner and they just hauled it off. Get rid of that shit if you can before the laws change and it costs a fortune to dump it.
Has to be a To be a think bag inside a box.
labeled as asbestos
Then you need to contact dump and tell them you are bringing it in. I want to get rid of it. But I need the money for replacement siding first
 
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