The shadow government....

burgertime2010

burgertime2010

Well-Known Member
I hear all this bitching and whining about govt and nothing about the corporations who own it. I am not able to overlook the profit motive that is the root of the evil that we ignore or pin on a single politician. The culture is not ours....we have been distracted by our fear while molded into idiotic consumers. Left and right.....there is money to be made off you.
 
NLXSK1

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
burgertime2010 said:
I hear all this bitching and whining about govt and nothing about the corporations who own it. I am not able to overlook the profit motive that is the root of the evil that we ignore or pin on a single politician. The culture is not ours....we have been distracted by our fear while molded into idiotic consumers. Left and right.....there is money to be made off you.
Click to expand...

There is money to be made off of everyone by everyone. That is what an economy is...

We are all consumers.
 
NLXSK1

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
Let me give you something to think about.

The more control government has over business, the more incentive business has to manipulate the government.

You dont break the cycle by advocating more control over business.

And BTW, the government is the evil, not the corporation.

A corporation has not made it illegal for me to purchase a 2 gallon flush toilet or an incandescent light bulb. A corporation has not forced me by penalty of law to buy any of their products. Etc... The governent is who you should be afraid of, not corporations.
 
burgertime2010

burgertime2010

Well-Known Member
NLXSK1 said:
Let me give you something to think about.

The more control government has over business, the more incentive business has to manipulate the government.

You dont break the cycle by advocating more control over business.

And BTW, the government is the evil, not the corporation.

A corporation has not made it illegal for me to purchase a 2 gallon flush toilet or an incandescent light bulb. A corporation has not forced me by penalty of law to buy any of their products. Etc... The governent is who you should be afraid of, not corporations.
Click to expand...
The corporation buys every politician into power and right or left you need money to campaign. That comes at a cost. Insurance is private....the government forces you to make who money? The engineers of your values are aware of the blame you will place and where you place it.
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
Pot Kettle

Search for how many of the big corporations whose high ranking officers move in and out of federal government from the SEC to agriculture, CDC...

NLXSK1 said:
Let me give you something to think about.

The more control government has over business, the more incentive business has to manipulate the government.

You dont break the cycle by advocating more control over business.

And BTW, the government is the evil, not the corporation.

A corporation has not made it illegal for me to purchase a 2 gallon flush toilet or an incandescent light bulb. A corporation has not forced me by penalty of law to buy any of their products. Etc... The governent is who you should be afraid of, not corporations.
Click to expand...
 
NLXSK1

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
burgertime2010 said:
The corporation buys every politician into power and right or left you need money to campaign. That comes at a cost. Insurance is private....the government forces you to make who money? The engineers of your values are aware of the blame you will place and where you place it.
Click to expand...
My values might be quite different from yours...

You propose no solutions.
 
burgertime2010

burgertime2010

Well-Known Member
NLXSK1 said:
My values might be quite different from yours...

You propose no solutions.
Click to expand...
I propose you resist taking sides until you entertain an idea. The point that I emphasize is that beyond the government lies a factor that is not acknowledged. A solution? You admit there is a problem?
 
NLXSK1

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
burgertime2010 said:
I propose you resist taking sides until you entertain an idea. The point that I emphasize is that beyond the government lies a factor that is not acknowledged. A solution? You admit there is a problem?
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I admit that a government that has too much power and control causes corruption and victimization of its people for it's own self interest.
 
burgertime2010

burgertime2010

Well-Known Member
NLXSK1 said:
I admit that a government that has too much power and control causes corruption and victimization of its people for it's own self interest.
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If self-interest includes the interest of the lobbys and campaign financiers than we agree. I surmise that power is bought and the victimization is a joint effort.
 
see4

see4

Well-Known Member
Why does everyone get then and than wrong? I see that word misused more than "you're" and "your". It's misused so much, I am starting to think that I have it wrong.
 
NLXSK1

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
burgertime2010 said:
If self-interest includes the interest of the lobbys and campaign financiers than we agree. I surmise that power is bought and the victimization is a joint effort.
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Ok, but a corporation cannot compel me to do anything, my government can.

So, again... A smaller government with less power is subject to less corruption simply because there is no reason to manipulate it.

New laws that can be lobbied against or subjugated due to legislation hidden in omibus bills are not going to fix the problem.
 
burgertime2010

burgertime2010

Well-Known Member
There is a clear link. A corporation compels the govt to act on behalf of its interests. The government is the legislative and enforcement body big or small. The relationship between these two entities needs to be overhauled, I am not arguing for the solution. The willingness of many to ignore half of the problem is just fucking irritating, for once it would be nice to hear an acknowledgement, a non-combative, non-partisan honest opinion about this reality.
 
see4

see4

Well-Known Member
NLXSK1 said:
So, again... A smaller government with less power is subject to less corruption ...
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You are wrong. So very very wrong. I will give you hints, but you need to do the research yourself. Look at South American governments, specifically Brazil. Also look at African and Eastern European governments.
 
burgertime2010

burgertime2010

Well-Known Member
see4 said:
You are wrong. So very very wrong. I will give you hints, but you need to do the research yourself. Look at South American governments, specifically Brazil. Also look at African and Eastern European governments.
Click to expand...
homework is never popular when there is a good point.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
burgertime2010 said:
I propose you resist taking sides until you entertain an idea. The point that I emphasize is that beyond the government lies a factor that is not acknowledged. A solution? You admit there is a problem?
Click to expand...
I suggest that the problem is our human nature: power corrupts. It doesn't matter what the seat of that power is: government, corporations, church, banks ... it will flow to the center and seek control.

In all human history nobody has found a formula to keep power dispersed and least corrupt. Many many, from Marx to Spooner to Sun Tzu, have opined about the best framework for controlling and harnessing that power, but every time a concrete proposal is made, it hinges (whether it admits it or not) on somehow interrupting the basic human tendency to game the system for max personal advantage.

The one constant of political tectonics has been:
there will be war.
No empire holds forever.
Real war, famine, hardship has been held off on a global scale to a degree not seen for two millennia. I wonder if our eventual destabilization will outclass the emergence of what we call the dark Ages. I fear for my children.
 
Winter Woman

Winter Woman

Well-Known Member
see4 said:
You are wrong. So very very wrong. I will give you hints, but you need to do the research yourself. Look at South American governments, specifically Brazil. Also look at African and Eastern European governments.
Click to expand...
I thought you liked Brazil? Aren't you going for the Olympics? I just assumed you would or am I wrong?
 
B

beenthere

New Member
see4 said:
Why does everyone get then and than wrong? I see that word (those words) misused more than "you're" and "your". It's misused so much, I am starting to think that I have it wrong.
Click to expand...
Funny, I see the words, that and those get misused quite frequently.
But I just never felt the need to mention it, except in your case!
 
Winter Woman

Winter Woman

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
I suggest that the problem is our human nature: power corrupts. It doesn't matter what the seat of that power is: government, corporations, church, banks ... it will flow to the center and seek control.

In all human history nobody has found a formula to keep power dispersed and least corrupt. Many many, from Marx to Spooner to Sun Tzu, have opined about the best framework for controlling and harnessing that power, but every time a concrete proposal is made, it hinges (whether it admits it or not) on somehow interrupting the basic human tendency to game the system for max personal advantage.

The one constant of political tectonics has been:
there will be war.
No empire holds forever.
Real war, famine, hardship has been held off on a global scale to a degree not seen for two millennia. I wonder if our eventual destabilization will outclass the emergence of what we call the dark Ages. I fear for my children.
Click to expand...
The breadbasket of Africa was killed for personal gain of a few and 10's of thousands starved to death. Famine will rear its ugly head and kill millions unless we are careful.

China now owns Smithfield the largest pork producer in the world. Remember a few years ago when butter, ice cream and heavy whips became very expensive? Land o Lakes sold their butter fat to Russia, we paid the price with much higher prices on milk products here in the USA and the prices never came back now. And yes, expect $7 a gallon milk, when we decided to stop subsizing corporate dairy farmers we, also, stopped subsizing the real dairy farmers where most of the milk comes from.

Probably few here know that to be a food broker you have to be a millionaire. The bar to enter the food market keeps getting higher and hard to climb which means few producers for the American market.
 
burgertime2010

burgertime2010

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
I suggest that the problem is our human nature: power corrupts. It doesn't matter what the seat of that power is: government, corporations, church, banks ... it will flow to the center and seek control.

In all human history nobody has found a formula to keep power dispersed and least corrupt. Many many, from Marx to Spooner to Sun Tzu, have opined about the best framework for controlling and harnessing that power, but every time a concrete proposal is made, it hinges (whether it admits it or not) on somehow interrupting the basic human tendency to game the system for max personal advantage.

The one constant of political tectonics has been:
there will be war.
No empire holds forever.
Real war, famine, hardship has been held off on a global scale to a degree not seen for two millennia. I wonder if our eventual destabilization will outclass the emergence of what we call the dark Ages. I fear for my children.
Click to expand...
That is as true as anything....but accepting that is different than understanding this. I mean, that the notion of government I hear so much about is incomplete. The post is a reaction to the level of honesty, lack of information, and integrity of the opposition. I want a real landscape to debate upon.
 
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