The state of the union address

dukeofbaja said:

I find myself clearly too wiped out on beer again tonight for my own good. I should probably not reply. Oh well, this is too fun....

Firstly we completely agree that 'There's a reason why 400,000 foreigners come to the USA every year for health care. When it counts.... this is the place. the USA outstrips every other country when it comes to having access to the finest and most up to date technology. '. I have already agreed with you on this point. However, we are losing this advantage rapidly. If you feel like watching an hour long documentary that convinced me of this, here is the link... http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/

Secondly, I will blindly grant you your assertion that 'Obama is owned by the TORT lawyers...' but disagree with you that '...they increase the price of health care INSURANCE greatly'. I agree that TORT reform is a good idea, and Obama has offered this to the Republicans as an olive branch of sorts, but TORT reform will not have any significant effect on bending the long term curve of health care costs. In fact, Obama stated this fact in his slaughter-ahem....meeting with the Repblican caucus. Or did you miss that part because Faux News cut away from the GOP bloodbath? The fact is, now that Obama supports it, the right shys away from something they once supported for cheap, short-sighted political gain. And it doesn't help America none at all.

Thirdly, we disagree the most on going across state lines. This would simply lead to insurance companies cherrypicking the healthiest in each state, while the worst off of the worst would get hosed even harder. That is what the private sector does t
he best, maximize profits through a system of what I lightly call 'raping the public'. Again, Obama discussed this in his meeting with the repubs, take a look.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oIZPAgZzJY&feature=related

Even though that single 10 minute clip rebuts both of your last two points, you should probably bother to watch the whole thing, so you know what you are rallying against. Obama is actually quite centrist compared to most presidents (see previous administration).

Drunken rant over. I should stay away from this shit....

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If we are losing our lead...it is because of costs. You say you disagree with TORT lawyers raising the cost of health care, but keep in mind that today, a doctor has to purchase insurance (to cover the TORT vultures) of approximately 200-250K per year....every year. That's before the doc can flip the light switch on. That's before the doctor has to hire a staff the size of the DMV to deal with the REAMS of paperwork demanded by the govt.

TORT laws directly increase the cost of DOING medicine. Now you don't think the doctor is just going to absorb that do you? No, that doctor will pass it on to the customers. ALL taxes are eventually laid at the feet of the customer. Tax big oil more? Pay more at the pump. It's a way for the govt. to indirectly collect more taxes from the average citizen. Always remember....all taxes are paid by the end user, not the targeted entity. It gets passed on.



Your comment about state lines indicates you don't understand how the insurance pool works..... you won't find very many professionals to agree with you. There is a basic tenant in business and insurance is a business. Increased competition brings DOWN costs. Insurance companies don't cherrypick it's customers ...although that IS exactly what the govt. does by requiring specific regulations on the insurance companies. So you have bit urself on ur own arse there. The folks (govt) you wish to have control over your lives do that right now. This is the main reason why a policy in NJ is twice what the very same policy is in KY. NJ has many more mandates that force the insurance companies to accept ppl they normally wouldn't.

So what happens in NJ....? Let's say I live in NJ. I am healthy, but by MY CHOICE, I decide to get health care insurance. I join a pool and watch my costs go UP UP UP... why? because the mandates allow anyone to join that pool, and guess what.... the very sick ppl JUMP into those pools so fast, the healthy ppl are drowned by the increasing costs ... or they GET OUT of the pools ... thereby driving up prices further for those still left in the pool. This is the main reason why Obama is so adamant that ppl will not be able to opt out unless fined. Obama knows that once the costs start to be felt...ppl will RUN, not walk away from their policies. Rightfully so.

This leads us into the ever present but less talked about unconstitutionality of the national health care proposed scheme. The govt has no right to force anyone to buy a certain product, let alone FINE them for not purchasing.

It's afool errand you are on....you just don't know it. You should....you seem halfway bright. You need to look into it more carefully.

The future with govt. is ALWAYS more cost and less service....ALWAYS. I would love to hear of a shining example of a well run govt. program. They don't exist, and certainly not anything of size or breadth of what is trying to be FORCED on the ppl against their will.

Americans want health care.... they don't want GOVT health care.

CrackerJax said:

If we are losing our lead...it is because of costs. You say you disagree with TORT lawyers raising the cost of health care, but keep in mind that today, a doctor has to purchase insurance (to cover the TORT vultures) of approximately 200-250K per year....every year. That's before the doc can flip the light switch on. That's before the doctor has to hire a staff the size of the DMV to deal with the REAMS of paperwork demanded by the govt.

TORT laws directly increase the cost of DOING medicine. Now you don't think the doctor is just going to absorb that do you? No, that doctor will pass it on to the customers. ALL taxes are eventually laid at the feet of the customer. Tax big oil more? Pay more at the pump. It's a way for the govt. to indirectly collect more taxes from the average citizen. Always remember....all taxes are paid by the end user, not the targeted entity. It gets passed on.



Your comment about state lines indicates you don't understand how the insurance pool works..... you won't find very many professionals to agree with you. There is a basic tenant in business and insurance is a business. Increased competition brings DOWN costs. Insurance companies don't cherrypick it's customers ...although that IS exactly what the govt. does by requiring specific regulations on the insurance companies. So you have bit urself on ur own arse there. The folks (govt) you wish to have control over your lives do that right now. This is the main reason why a policy in NJ is twice what the very same policy is in KY. NJ has many more mandates that force the insurance companies to accept ppl they normally wouldn't.

So what happens in NJ....? Let's say I live in NJ. I am healthy, but by MY CHOICE, I decide to get health care insurance. I join a pool and watch my costs go UP UP UP... why? because the mandates allow anyone to join that pool, and guess what.... the very sick ppl JUMP into those pools so fast, the healthy ppl are drowned by the increasing costs ... or they GET OUT of the pools ... thereby driving up prices further for those still left in the pool. This is the main reason why Obama is so adamant that ppl will not be able to opt out unless fined. Obama knows that once the costs start to be felt...ppl will RUN, not walk away from their policies. Rightfully so.

This leads us into the ever present but less talked about unconstitutionality of the national health care proposed scheme. The govt has no right to force anyone to buy a certain product, let alone FINE them for not purchasing.

It's afool errand you are on....you just don't know it. You should....you seem halfway bright. You need to look into it more carefully.

The future with govt. is ALWAYS more cost and less service....ALWAYS. I would love to hear of a shining example of a well run govt. program. They don't exist, and certainly not anything of size or breadth of what is trying to be FORCED on the ppl against their will.

Americans want health care.... they don't want GOVT health care.

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What do you do for a living? You seem to have a lot of knowledge on this shit.

I would call most of it opinion, not knowledge. But I am interested to know what he does for a living. Myself? College dropout, soon to be Mr. Mom. I struck gold.

I'll only truly reply to the first thing you stated, or, as it may be, misstated. You said I disagree about TORT lawyers raising the costs of health care, but I do not. I agree they raise the cost of health care, but not in any significant way, maybe a few percentage points at best. Plus, Obama has offered TORT reform to the GOP already. It is one of the few 'solutions' they have enumerated. But it is not a solution.

The rest of what you stated is just values and opinions. You seem to be more worried about giving private health insurers all the room in the world to rape away, I am more worried about getting them to play nice in the sandbox. And we completely disagree and seemingly forever will about the inefficency of government. Your assertions that government is 'ALWAYS' more cost and less service is, well, an opinion. Just like most of what you state. Except you have a really annoying way of telling me to 'wake up' or 'pay attention' or that I need to stop being a 'naive lamb' or stop running a 'fool's errand'. This gets me riled,although I should be above it and realize you have simply run out of factual ground to stand on and must resort to generic fallacy.

In any case, by the time you get done reading this another American will have lost their house or gone bankrupt due to medical bills. By the end of the day, many Americans will have died because they had no access to the procedure that would have kept them alive. And all yo have to say is 'TORT reform' and 'cross state lines' and 'leave it in te hands of the private insurers who have tripled premiums in the last 20 years'. Good luck with that argument.

Lets all just hitabong and getalong