I consider myself a beginner grower with only a year and a half of indoor experience and a year of outdoor which is basically just last season in how far we are into this season, and almost all my problems so far have been related to PH and bugs... But for this thread were gonna just focus on the PH. When I First started growing I was using synthetic nutes in happy frog soil, starting with AN jungle juice as my base for the first harvest then switched to house and garden base and a few additives after that, at this time I was using a ph pen and adjusting what I fed to between 6.3 and 6.8. It got to the point I expected to have ph problems when I transplanted but just needed to flush with the correct range to fix the issues of canoeing and leaf tips turning and other deficiencies it brought with it. For this outdoor season I switched to full organics and am using a mix of roots organic soil and sanctuary empire builder soil, along with roots organic nutes. When I started I was PH'ing every feed and had problems with leaves slightly canoeing and starting to turn, like always I just looked at this as a normal part of the plants life cycle and continued to ph and just watered a little more. A couple weeks ago my ph pen broke and like a cheap lazy stoner I just forgot about it and went on with my life, obviously that was a stupid thing for me to do, but since ditching the ph pen all the leaves are perfectly flat and straight and healthy, other than some bug problems. The point I wanted to make here is that in my case me adjusting ph was actually anti productive , so i encourage everyone growing organically to at least for a couple plants just stop PHing and see if you notice a difference. Most posts I see regarding ph here are organics people saying don't worry about ph in organics which I was so greatly opposed so much that the only reason I tried it was because I'm cheap, and it ended up being one of the greatest decisions I've made in marijuana growing.
The truth about PH
- Thread starter BUDies
- Start date
mr sunshine
Well-Known Member
Sounds intresting but i only ph once a week only when i apply nutes the rest of the week they get straight water...
direwolf71
Well-Known Member
I grow in soil outdoors and have never checked ph. I use rain water only and FFOF soil and nutes. 3 years and I never had an issue.
RoughGrowin
New Member
You honestly need to re-title your post, because this is NOT the truth about PH. Sorry to come into your thread and be such a negative nancy but I insist that ANYONE reading this posters advice to FIRST read this. https://www(dot)icmag(dot)com/ic/showthread.php?t=23357
Have you been properly calibrating your pen? You never mentioned if you were in a hydroponic or a soil system when you mentioned PH ranges you were in. If you were in hydro 6.3-6.8 will kill your plants; but on the other hand, that is the perfect PH for soil. I can't speak to the need to do this in organics as I have never run an organics hydro, but I do KNOW that nutrient uptake is directly influenced by PH. If you want to learn more about nute uptake and ph and how they affect each other, this is a pretty good read. http://www(dot)420magazine(dot)com/forums/indoor-soil-cultivation/114733-ph-nutrient-uptake-charts.html
Sorry for the (dots) I don't like promoting other sites but these sources are invaluable knowledge.
Have you been properly calibrating your pen? You never mentioned if you were in a hydroponic or a soil system when you mentioned PH ranges you were in. If you were in hydro 6.3-6.8 will kill your plants; but on the other hand, that is the perfect PH for soil. I can't speak to the need to do this in organics as I have never run an organics hydro, but I do KNOW that nutrient uptake is directly influenced by PH. If you want to learn more about nute uptake and ph and how they affect each other, this is a pretty good read. http://www(dot)420magazine(dot)com/forums/indoor-soil-cultivation/114733-ph-nutrient-uptake-charts.html
Sorry for the (dots) I don't like promoting other sites but these sources are invaluable knowledge.
GandalfdaGreen
Well-Known Member
So much is out there. So many ways and so many opinions. Confusing to say the least. I know many such as the Rev stress never adjusting your teas ph in organics.
CoreyATX420
Well-Known Member
I never do either. Not manually atleast. I add some dolomite lime to add calcium and keep my PH up and it usually does the trick. If ones a heavy feeder I can just adjust with some cal mag
Ya guess I shoulda named it something like my take on PH'ing organics, and yes I'm in soil as I stated the mixture of soil I'm using and thanks for those links I'll have to check them out
brotherjericho
Well-Known Member
I grow mostly organically and while I don't pH much anymore, I do add some Double Down to my water every time. I just know what amount I need to get my feed water around 6.3-6.8. I've yet to have a pH related problem afaik since February 2012.
RoughGrowin
New Member
Yeah, sorry for being such a dick, I was a little high and maintaining my hydro garden; in which the value of stable and correct PH cannot be overstated. I can see the leaves get unhappy if my PH is off by more than approx. 3/10ths. Its crazy how quickly it can affect them.
RoughGrowin
New Member
Willing to bet you are in soil.
GandalfdaGreen
Well-Known Member
Isn't that adjusting the ph brother?
brotherjericho
Well-Known Member
Yes, but what does this have to do with the thread?
I guess technically, yes. I suppose I meant to say I don't check pH anymore
. I simply makes sure my feed water is in the right range for growing ganja in soil.
Mad Hamish
Well-Known Member
Hmmmm, anybody know WHY adjusting pH for your teas is a bad idea? I like to know about 'cause and effect' and seeing as I am getting into the organics bigtime that's a good thing to know about for me...
Mad Hamish
Well-Known Member
Or could it be the WAY in which pH is adjusted? I can see hoe sulphuric acid and lye will ruin your mycos etc. If you run a sceptic tank for waste disposal at your home, even a small amount of lye can kill your bacteria and you'll have to re-set your sceptic tank, find a dead rat or mole or something and chuck it in there, I know it sounds awful but it's the only way once you've killed them off.
roseypeach
Well-Known Member
#1 never, please, mix FF anything with AN. It's a recipe for disaster unless you are seriously smart with what you are doing. THAT SAID, bravo for understanding that pH has more to do with organics than any chemical you could use.
FF is, from my knowledge, based on the real deal. AN does something diff and the two aren't compatible. I fucked a plant up doing this. Trust me.
now I stick to FF, liquid kelp and am currently experimenting with Snowstorm. I'm going to start a thread for it, so that folks can follow me. There seems to be an issue with friends trying to subscribe to my journal. I've checked the settings but nothing stuck out. If anyone who happens to know what I can do to fix it, great! otherwise, find me on Snowstorm thread. I'll most likely post in the nutrients division main board. Cya!
FF is, from my knowledge, based on the real deal. AN does something diff and the two aren't compatible. I fucked a plant up doing this. Trust me.
now I stick to FF, liquid kelp and am currently experimenting with Snowstorm. I'm going to start a thread for it, so that folks can follow me. There seems to be an issue with friends trying to subscribe to my journal. I've checked the settings but nothing stuck out. If anyone who happens to know what I can do to fix it, great! otherwise, find me on Snowstorm thread. I'll most likely post in the nutrients division main board. Cya!
timbeallnd
Member
pH affects plant growth differently in hydroponic, peat, coir, and compost. 6.3 - 6.8, and even 7.0 pH should be fine in soil and give better yield results unless your macro nutrients are unbalanced. If you have an over abundance of P and Ca (the ratios are wrong vs. K and Mg), then the higher pH will increase and exacerbate the problem of the wrong ratios. If you were trying to modify pH by adding a product similar to liquid lime (heavy in Ca), then you were probably messing up the ratios between Ca and K and Mg. In our growing trials using compost/organic based soil media the optimal growth can be achieved across a wider pH range. For example peat/perlite at 6.0 pH will cause iron deficiency in calibrachoa, but compost at 7.0 pH will not show the same deficiencies. Whereas in tomato plants a pH of 5.5-5.8 peat/perlite media will definitely be macro nutrient deficient (maybe not obviously noticeable but growth rates will slow), whereas in an organic compost the growth rates will not slow as much. You will always achieve best yield and growth rates though by maintaining the proper pH. Even in organic compost - your growth rates will be much better as long as you raise pH through a balanced proper ratio macro nutrient supplement.
timbeallnd
Member
It depends on what you are adding with your tea. Most tea catalyst/formulas add P, K, or Ca or all of them. If your soil is maintained at a certain pH prior to tea application - then the tea can/probably will increase the pH because of the nutrients. If you are talking about modifying your tea pH directly, then you are right that the sulphuric acid will mess with the microbe production, also in reverse if you are adding a calcium bicarbonate or something similar to increase pH then it will kill off a lot of the microbes also. Part of the reason you are supposed to aerate the tap water prior to use (removing chlorine) also works for removing any hard water bicarbonates. Even if your water doesn't have chlorine (well water), you should aerate to remove the bicarbonates prior to brewing.
Mad Hamish
Well-Known Member
Thanks man, that's a nice and neat explanation that's going to be helping me out as I proceed to explore living soils and all the wonderful things that go with them
aisach
Active Member
Unless I am mistaken, the point of brewing tea is to add a population of bacteria to the soil. And bacteria have a narrow range of pH that they thrive in. They need oxygen to survive and keep them in an aerobic state. Aeration will also carry away the 'off-gassing' they do in their short lives and stave off anaerobic conditions. Anaerobic conditions 'sour' the mix and further drop the pH to more acidic levels, more bacteria die off and the cycle continues.
When nutrients are added to water, the pH drops. Bacteria need a 'neutral zone' in which to live until they are added to the soil, where they do their important work keeping the soil healthy. Soil helps buffer pH levels by naturally raising pH levels quickly after the tea is added.
That said, the number one interference with pH is temperature. Always brew the tea in temperature consistent location. Cooler temps will slow the bacterial growth and keep the pH from dropping until you are ready to use the brew. Higher temps will encourage bacterial growth and lower the pH to toxic anaerobic levels. Keeping it at a constant room temp of 70F ish seems ok.
The manufacturer of the nutrients is telling you that in clinical studies (if any) that their product performed to their standard under the conditions where pH was not adjusted. It may be the type of bacteria that are farmed in their formula tolerate certain conditions that the manufactuer 'assumes' for any given target group of growers.
Once you know your system and products, tweak away.