The Weed Nerd~

geekmike · May 28, 2012

The big issue that we are talking about has issues because of the drug scheduling of Marijuana, it limits the study capabilities.

For example,

my wife works for a university hospital, they do studies all the time that are non biased and have saved tens of thousands of lives.

Now with MMJ we have the issue that Universities aren't allowed to study it without federal approval (ore be subject to federal monies be taken away from the school), this is where Nug has it right. All the studies that are going on now are not true scientific testing because you need multiple independent sources to have an accurate scientific inquiry.

Until there is a rescheduling or legalization we will not be able to see the full medicinal effects of MMJ, so the best we can do is have smart & caring people like Nugs taking the forefront and talking to patients about how these medicines are effect them. Doctors do the same thing with narcotics & other drugs to this day.

I always love these actual CONVERSATIONS that can go on here... that's why I don't stray far from the TGA forum much.

-Nerd Life

Heisenberg · May 28, 2012

nugbuckets said:
i hear you bro.....but here is the way i see it....like politicians and now doctors, scientists are being lobbied by currupt corporations with selfish agenda.....my guess is 95% of all scientific study is biased, influenced by selfish motivations......we can't trust politicians for obvious reasons, doctors because of big pharma drug sale initiatives and incentives, and now unfortunately scientists......granted there are privately owned labs that are run with a clear conscience, but how long before corporate cancer works its way in....never underestimate the power of authority or the human condition........i believe real honest health care must come from a grass roots initiative....that is why i put so much faith in the feedback from the patients i work with, because no one knows their suffering like they do themselves...it is a sad truth that sometimes it takes one to get gravely ill to truley get a sense of how fucked up our so called heathcare system really is..............nerds unite....nugs

Please do not let the corruption you are presented with everyday taint your appreciation for science. It is the scientific method which is responsible for pretty much anything we do know about growing cannabis, and taking care of sick people. Science is not an entity that can be influenced. Science is a careful and thorough system of observing nature while using consistent logic to evaluate the results.

Science is a transparent process open to peer review. There are certainly and always have been researchers working for the goals of corporations. No doubt when it comes to healthcare many studies are biased, there are perhaps more biased studies than legit ones, but those are not science, and true science does not recognize them. The only thing that influences true scientific study is evidence. It is no more possible to pass off 'selfish science' than it is to claim 2+2=7 without being questioned and refuted. I fully agree we should question authority, but the trust I have in science comes not from authority, but from the method. In the end, distrust in authority does nothing to support the idea that there is a huge difference in health risk between synthetics and organics. Your patience may indeed know something special, but perpetuating distrust in science will not help the rest of us learn of it.

rocknratm · May 28, 2012

geekmike said:
The big issue that we are talking about has issues because of the drug scheduling of Marijuana, it limits the study capabilities.

For example,

my wife works for a university hospital, they do studies all the time that are non biased and have saved tens of thousands of lives.

Now with MMJ we have the issue that Universities aren't allowed to study it without federal approval (ore be subject to federal monies be taken away from the school), this is where Nug has it right. All the studies that are going on now are not true scientific testing because you need multiple independent sources to have an accurate scientific inquiry.

Until there is a rescheduling or legalization we will not be able to see the full medicinal effects of MMJ, so the best we can do is have smart & caring people like Nugs taking the forefront and talking to patients about how these medicines are effect them. Doctors do the same thing with narcotics & other drugs to this day.

I always love these actual CONVERSATIONS that can go on here... that's why I don't stray far from the TGA forum much.

-Nerd Life

that is true, but its interesting to explore the cause of this. I think its big business, pharmacutical companies make so much on scripts. Billions. Id be happy if I had a few extra thousand, how can I even wrap my head around billions? Same goes for the prison system. Lots of money to be made.

The military industrial complex cannot allow true study of this plant. It would destroy them. It would undermine years of policy, law and enforcement. It would also allow people to think more freely about life and how they live (ads, marketing,capitalism,consumerism).
Blind patriotism would die. They rely on that to continue the cycle of american drone consumerism.

rocknratm · May 28, 2012

Heisenberg said:
Please do not let the corruption you are presented with everyday taint your appreciation for science. It is the scientific method which is responsible for pretty much anything we do know about growing cannabis, and taking care of sick people. Science is not an entity that can be influenced. Science is a careful and thorough system of observing nature while using consistent logic to evaluate the results.

Science is a transparent process open to peer review. There are certainly and always have been researchers working for the goals of corporations. No doubt when it comes to healthcare many studies are biased, there are perhaps more biased studies than legit ones, but those are not science, and true science does not recognize them. The only thing that influences true scientific study is evidence. It is no more possible to pass off 'selfish science' than it is to claim 2+2=7 without being questioned and refuted. I fully agree we should question authority, but the trust I have in science comes not from authority, but from the method. In the end, distrust in authority does nothing to support the idea that there is a huge difference in health risk between synthetics and organics. Your patience may indeed know something special, but perpetuating distrust in science will not help the rest of us learn of it.

you can only trust science in that you understand it exists in a given paradigm. It is not absolute truth, it only exists in a system of rules and laws that are subject to change. It claims objectivity but complete objectivity is impossible- there is still an enviornment that initiated the study, the experiment, the whatever- and that exists in a certain paradigm that must be recognized as such.

Heisenberg · May 28, 2012

geekmike said:
The big issue that we are talking about has issues because of the drug scheduling of Marijuana, it limits the study capabilities.

For example,

my wife works for a university hospital, they do studies all the time that are non biased and have saved tens of thousands of lives.

Now with MMJ we have the issue that Universities aren't allowed to study it without federal approval (ore be subject to federal monies be taken away from the school), this is where Nug has it right. All the studies that are going on now are not true scientific testing because you need multiple independent sources to have an accurate scientific inquiry.

Until there is a rescheduling or legalization we will not be able to see the full medicinal effects of MMJ, so the best we can do is have smart & caring people like Nugs taking the forefront and talking to patients about how these medicines are effect them. Doctors do the same thing with narcotics & other drugs to this day.

I always love these actual CONVERSATIONS that can go on here... that's why I don't stray far from the TGA forum much.

-Nerd Life

This is right on. Science does not necessarily oppose the idea that synthetics can be more harmful, although prior knowledge would suggest there is no difference. Science listens to reason, and when the day comes that we can do actual testing on these issues, it will be the anecdotal information people like nugs are collecting which provides a platform from which to launch studies.

Heisenberg · May 28, 2012

rocknratm said:
you can only trust science in that you understand it exists in a given paradigm. It is not absolute truth, it only exists in a system of rules and laws that are subject to change. It claims objectivity but complete objectivity is impossible- there is still an enviornment that initiated the study, the experiment, the whatever- and that exists in a certain paradigm that must be recognized as such.

All scientific answers are an approximation of the truth, and come with error bars at the end. It is in fact the best method we have developed for reaching truth. The difference is in being genuine; science tells you the areas it distrusts itself, and seeks to be proven wrong.

It saddens me to see so many involved in cannabis distrust science as they do politics and business, although both do a great job of perverting science. I think a deep appreciation and clear understanding of the values behind science, skepticism and critical thinking would do much to eradicate the irrational laws we have, such as the drug war, and do much to progress the help we can provide for sick people.

hovering · May 28, 2012

nugbuckets said:
i hear you bro.....but here is the way i see it....like politicians and now doctors, scientists are being lobbied by currupt corporations with selfish agenda.....my guess is 95% of all scientific study is biased, influenced by selfish motivations......we can't trust politicians for obvious reasons, doctors because of big pharma drug sale initiatives and incentives, and now unfortunately scientists......granted there are privately owned labs that are run with a clear conscience, but how long before corporate cancer works its way in....never underestimate the power of authority or the human condition........i believe real honest health care must come from a grass roots initiative....that is why i put so much faith in the feedback from the patients i work with, because no one knows their suffering like they do themselves...it is a sad truth that sometimes it takes one to get gravely ill to truley get a sense of how fucked up our so called heathcare system really is..............nerds unite....nugs

Word Nugs. *much respect*

sunray · May 28, 2012

sub: just watched the last episode. my question is: there's a difference between removing fan leaves and thinning out plants (like you showed previously)? i look at thinning plants like culling suckers from tomatos. you want all the plants energy to go into fruit production right?

jd123 · May 28, 2012

Heisenberg said:
All scientific answers are an approximation of the truth, and come with error bars at the end. It is in fact the best method we have developed for reaching truth. The difference is in being genuine; science tells you the areas it distrusts itself, and seeks to be proven wrong.

It saddens me to see so many involved in cannabis distrust science as they do politics and business, although both do a great job of perverting science. I think a deep appreciation and clear understanding of science, skepticism and critical thinking would do much to eradicate the irrational laws we have, such as the drug war, and do much to progress the help we can provide for sick people.

word. i agree there is alot of corruption in the healthcare industry, having grow up being perscribed numerous medications because i was a little too hyper or a little too angry, and now having stomach problems and they just wanna shovel more pills down my throat, i definitely agree that pharmacuetical companies have corrupted healthcare beyond beleif. but if this country as a whole had a better understanding of science and critical thinking there would have never been this much corruption in the first place, it is sad how much the healthcare industry is corrupt, and how the media and politicians will tout unscientific "studies", but the scientific community in general is working hard to build a better understanding of the world around us, and so far the scientific method is the best method we have for doing this. in this country they have alot of political bs to deal with so they have to be careful when it comes to cannabis, but there are some great studies that have been done, and there are some great scientists just trying to get to the bottom of things.

and lets not forget all the great things science has provided for us and taught outside of the healthcare industry.

melungeonman · May 28, 2012

Magic is one of those old school strains, Dad use to grow it and sell it all over the bay. What a de motivator. I love it. I've plum gave up on finding strains like we got back in the day, REAL dick in the dirt herb. Also has anyone noticed how quick a person can build a tolerance for these new strains, Thank god for "melungeon magic", been getting me plum shity since 1977. peace

Heisenberg · May 28, 2012

jd123 said:
word. i agree there is alot of corruption in the healthcare industry, having grow up being perscribed numerous medications because i was a little too hyper or a little too angry, and now having stomach problems and they just wanna shovel more pills down my throat, i definitely agree that pharmacuetical companies have corrupted healthcare beyond beleif. but if this country as a whole had a better understanding of science and critical thinking there would have never been this much corruption in the first place, it is sad how much the healthcare industry is corrupt, and how the media and politicians will tout unscientific "studies", but the scientific community is working hard to build a better understanding of the world around us, and so far the scientific method is the best method we have for doing this. in this country they have alot of political bs to deal with so they have to be careful when it comes to cannabis, but there are some great studies that have been done, and there are some great scientists on our side.

and lets not forget all the great things science has provided for us aside from the healthcare industry. we wouldnt even be having a organic vs hydro discussion without science, there would be no hydro, and we would have no understanding of the concept of organic.

Exactly, you and I can both understand where the inclination to distrust comes from. Neither of us are calling anyone fools. The amount of corruption, misinformation, discrimination and oppression we face as cannabis users on a daily basis is maddening. Who could blame anyone for being twice shy? But one thing that will help greatly to improve ALL aspects of the cannabis movement is appealing to values such as intellectual honesty, accountability, integrity, accuracy and transparency, all values which science shares and holds dear.

TorontoGQ · May 28, 2012

Doobius1 said:
Just got back from the Treating Yourself Medical MJ expo in Toronto. Worlds largest vapor lounge. What an amazing event. Simon from Serious, Swerve, Luc from Paradise, Delta 9, Kannabia, the DNA boys, Greenhouse, Lowryder. I came armed with a pocket full of cash to pick up some TGA seeds and clothes and nothing at all! Sow Amazing Seeds was there but his prices are outta line I bought a pack of Kali Mist right from Simon for $100 cash and a pack of Kosher Kush from Don at DNA. Almost all the big boys are there. Even if you are not allowed in Canada, why not send some reps? This event is huge!

I was at the event as well..... and when it came to subs gear 2 spots there were reppin' Subs seeds.... Sow Amazing and GTA Seeds..... I totally disagree with you about Sow Amazing's prices...well when it comes to the TGA gear anyway. They were selling 5 packs of TGA for $40 flat no tax etc. Thats a great deal compared to others online or not, In Toronto/Canada anyway.....

nugbuckets · May 28, 2012

Heisenberg said:
Please do not let the corruption you are presented with everyday taint your appreciation for science. It is the scientific method which is responsible for pretty much anything we do know about growing cannabis, and taking care of sick people. Science is not an entity that can be influenced. Science is a careful and thorough system of observing nature while using consistent logic to evaluate the results.

Science is a transparent process open to peer review. There are certainly and always have been researchers working for the goals of corporations. No doubt when it comes to healthcare many studies are biased, there are perhaps more biased studies than legit ones, but those are not science, and true science does not recognize them. The only thing that influences true scientific study is evidence. It is no more possible to pass off 'selfish science' than it is to claim 2+2=7 without being questioned and refuted. I fully agree we should question authority, but the trust I have in science comes not from authority, but from the method. In the end, distrust in authority does nothing to support the idea that there is a huge difference in health risk between synthetics and organics. Your patience may indeed know something special, but perpetuating distrust in science will not help the rest of us learn of it.

exactly right, don't get me wrong, it is not the philosophy and methods that i have a dis-trust for.....my disdain for the conventional medical complex was built from becoming ill, and trusting my family doctor for treatment, only to discover later that he was perscribing incentive laden, (for him)... toxic meds to me that made my condition much, much worse.......i appreciate science very, very much for what it is, it is the exploitation by the people with authoritative positions i have a problem with.......great discusion.

Heisenberg · May 28, 2012

sunray said:
sub: just watched the last episode. my question is: there's a difference between removing fan leaves and thinning out plants (like you showed previously)? i look at thinning plants like culling suckers from tomatos. you want all the plants energy to go into fruit production right?

If I may comment, I believe that the overall goal is to streamline photosynthesis, or rather, help plants use their energy as efficiently as possible. This is the basic idea behind thinning out shaded shoots, as you pointed out. These shoots will receive enough sustenance to tax the energy supply, but not enough to produce quality product. Removing the undergrowth can also help air flow, which increases efficiency in the rest of the plant. The idea behind removing fan leaves is similar. Fan leaves have several important functions vital to photosynthesis, so generally it is a significant hinderence to efficiency if you remove them. In some cases though, the leaves cause so much shade that they overcome their benefit, and themselves become hindering to photosynthesis (on the bud site they are shading). In these cases I try my best to tuck the leaf out of the way if at all possible, if not I remove it. This doesn't mean every leaf blocking light should go, just the ones you feel (if any) are hindering efficiency. Any fan leaves that are part of the undergrowth get removed with the shoots.

This is how I understood it.

nugbuckets · May 28, 2012

rocknratm said:
that is true, but its interesting to explore the cause of this. I think its big business, pharmacutical companies make so much on scripts. Billions. Id be happy if I had a few extra thousand, how can I even wrap my head around billions? Same goes for the prison system. Lots of money to be made.

The military industrial complex cannot allow true study of this plant. It would destroy them. It would undermine years of policy, law and enforcement. It would also allow people to think more freely about life and how they live (ads, marketing,capitalism,consumerism).
Blind patriotism would die. They rely on that to continue the cycle of american drone consumerism.

excellent fucking post.

nugbuckets · May 28, 2012

Heisenberg said:
Exactly, you and I can both understand where the inclination to distrust comes from. Neither of us are calling anyone fools. The amount of corruption, misinformation, discrimination and oppression we face as cannabis users on a daily basis is maddening. Who could blame anyone for being twice shy? But one thing that will help greatly to improve ALL aspects of the cannabis movement is appealing to values such as intellectual honesty, accountability, integrity, accuracy and transparency, all values which science shares and holds dear.

couldn't have said it better myself....you guys rock....much love, nugs

jd123 · May 28, 2012

nugbuckets said:
exactly right, don't get me wrong, it is not the philosophy and methods that i have a dis-trust for.....my disdain for the conventional medical complex was built from becoming ill, and trusting my family doctor for treatment, only to discover later that he was perscribing incentive laden, (for him)... toxic meds to me that made my condition much, much worse.......i appreciate science very, very much for what it is, it is the exploitation by the people with authoritative positions i have a problem with.......great discusion.

yup agree 100%. i have a great doctor now, but i have had few who were obvious shills for pharmacuetical companies.

nugbuckets · May 28, 2012

TorontoGQ said:
I was at the event as well..... and when it came to subs gear 2 spots there were reppin' Subs seeds.... Sow Amazing and GTA Seeds..... I totally disagree with you about Sow Amazing's prices...well when it comes to the TGA gear anyway. They were selling 5 packs of TGA for $40 flat no tax etc. Thats a great deal compared to others online or not, In Toronto/Canada anyway.....

i love sowamazing, their customer service is outstanding.....feel like i can have a bro to bro conversation with those guys.....they are a small outfit, but really on top of their game....the way i see it, if you can get dank for around 10 bucks a bean with no hassles....what is there to argue ....like i said before...would be nice to see the breeders, (the reputable ones) get a bit more for their hard work.

Noximus · May 28, 2012

nugbuckets said:
i have just learned how to listen to my body....that is the only real science i know........if we waited for all the "studies" and scientific data....we would all die waiting.......i will trust patient reports over "studies" any day of the week.

real talk.

nugbuckets · May 28, 2012

...This is for all the Weed Nerd Veterans out there!......everything is possible because of you.....with much love and respect...Thank You.........Nugs

The Weed Nerd~

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