thots on lucas for trees? or is this a sog formula?

Hey all,

been doing trees in dwc. had a run with the gh three part. made the mistake of using hardwater micro with my three part with 61 of cal and 291 total ppm of water. ph was crazy. all over.

fixed that with reg micro.

now trying lucas. ph is stable. however is this this a sog formula? only? I read somewhere that doing sog lucas is not concerned with nitorgen that a tree might need.

Am I ok using 8/16 all the way thru for trees or shud I just use three part?

any experience. I am concerned that a 5/10 under a 6 bulb 4 foot t5 is not looking tip top shape with proper ph.

also what is your ppm at .7 like for veg and flower. I read about a 1300 ppm and also a 800 ppm. I am going buy gh chart on their website so far. For lucas I read the above numbers. Sorta. Lol, I am rereading that ask lucas cannabis thread. Just curious. I am experimenting some.

Lucas is no better or worse for trees than for SOG. It has the extra Phosphorus need when growing SOG, and the exr tra calcium need when growing trees. The ratio of Nitrogen actuallu used by trees versus SOG is the same. The total amount used is larger with trees jsut because there is more stems and leaves proprtional to buds. this jsut ,eans using more fertilzers in total not really at a different ratio except that stems contain a higher level of calcium, but nearly all hydro nutes meant for inert media grows including Lucas have highh levels of calcium. The main difference betwwen trees andsogs is that when ammonium nitrate is available tall plants take it up at higher rates then nitrate. Sogs prefer nitrate. High nitrate uptakes causes rises in pH, high ammonium uptake causes ph declines. Ph declines increase cacium and magnesium needs for buffering. pH rises increase phosphorous needs for buffering needs. Calcium, magnesium and phosphorus are all provided at high levels in the Lucas recommended mix ratio of Bloom and Micro

thanks dude. i wud rep you but apparantly I got to spread it around. I am loving my reg micro with my tapwater which is 272 total ppm and 53 avg calcium at ph 8. Lucas takes her down to 6.2 where she stays and ph down keeps her stable for days at 5.8. Very cool. I think I will try 8/16 for veg under my 6 bulb four foot t5 as opposed to 5/10.

hey I was just looking at the bottles of gh three part. If three tsp or 15 mil gives me full str, that is labled on the bottle then why not a 16/16 for veg? That would give me 5-5-5 as opposed to 2.5-5-5? Is that right? If I use 8 mil of micro then that is half the bottles npk statement of 5-0-1. I am worried again! Lol. I want a little higher than 2.5 for N in veg. Flower sounds good for hydro. Would I be looking at cacium overdose? I dont think so. I am gonna try.

acutually lol, 16/16 gives me 6-6-6 as my veg formula. What can we call my formula? I want to call it the "jude law formula". That movie was frickin funny.


edit: all off. I did this a long time ago and am trying to reappluy this for fun. lets see. I think it is 10/16 for a 666.

I may be totally off. I figured bedore and came up with the flora nova nutes npk by looking at the back of three part bottles. I here the flora nova is supposed to be lucas npk in a bottle with humics for us hippies.

FloraNova is just a drug up old idea that never panned out that GH is using to try to get a better market share. They exract humic andfulvic acid from coal. They replace the trace elements with the acids. It is a far worse formulation then their Flora series. The addition of wha t they call humus is to makeit appear as a healthier nutrient with natural chelators. How more natural is a product chemicaly extracted from low grade brown coal than a man made chelate made from elemental chemicals. It is just a marketers scam. It causes they requirement for enzymes and bacteria in a chemical reservoir, just as in an organic nutrient reservoir but Floranova resrvoir contains chemical sources for all major nutrients rather than organic. Deceptive advertising and marketing bull*hit at a higher cost. Look on page #21 of the Lucas from scratch thread. I just posted a write up on humic and fulvic acids. https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/268790-lucas-formula-recipe-scratch-really-21.html

well I have to see what the deal is with the humics and how they work as chelates in hydro with minerals or not. I read that post nad found it to be very informative. I was particualrlity interested in how with ph changes the humics fall out or change. I am aware of some bragging about the nutes but also aware most of tht is by first time growers with a month under their belt. I come from organic soil so I read a lot about that area and fell in love with the soil food web. But so far for me that is for soil, and i read the bottles I get eagerly now for edta and the rest of those chemicals. Rather minerals, for me I see it as a cleaner alternative. It was a pro hydro organic vidoe i saw with a sickly but alive hydro plant next to a stunning beaute of a mineral grown plant that actually made my mind up. Plus after the money I spent on my ph pen I dont need "sludge". lol.

But I guess i got a lot of reading to do about ppm and its corrleation to NPK on the bottle. I know what I want for my plants in NPK terms as well as general ppm needs. But I am only reading about 100 N and 100 p and 100k or difernt numbers written like that to describe the breakdown. here is a link,

I like what I can tell is a three part formual of 7-3-9 or better yet a 9-3-7 and a 3-9-7. That is about what gh three part full str gives I think. But as far as ppm breakdowns I need to learn that better. What the lucas gives was clear to me as the same npk tho as flora nova before when I read the back of bottles, today it looked like 2.5-5-5! I panicked. I think I might have done some more reasoning and came up with adding more micro to even that out.

If full str micro is 10 ml and that is 5-0-1 and full str bloom is 15 ml for 0-5-4 then that is 10/15 giving 5-5-5. Why not use that I dont know. 8 ml gives less than 5 N! Bu hydro plants do not need a lot of N like soil so that might be totally cool. I have a few plants I am experimenting on to get the perfect mix. I think the three part unless it makes ph harder is not so bad for my small 10 gallon and five gallon dwc pots. Except maybe in flower I might need more mag. I have to look into that. THat is a maybe wy my yeilds are suffering. I know my perfectly phd plant just started to show N def and I had it at 5/10. So I upped that to 8/16 and then realised a little more micro might help. Or maybe some green grow solution as perhaps to many minerals are bad from micro.

I shud prob read the lucas from scratch again.


I am rambling so content. My medication just kicked in!

Any thoughts anyone?

Please be ware that GH does not add humus (partially composted orgainic matter) it adds hunic and fulnvic acids chemically extracted from brown coal. Their guarnteed anaylisis reports do mnot list the FloraNovaa Grow or Bloom containing any micro nutrients but chelated iron. Government laboratories in Washington and clifornai that test fertilizer registered for sell in those states sow no micro nutrients fin Flora Nova products except iron. Just how natural are chelates chemically extracted fron coal. Yes there are natural chelates in partaily decomposed organic products, but are they still iable after chemical extraction from coal, the reqrided trace minerals didnot extract, did the chelates. Most scientists say no. Most scientists believe that nearly all benefits of humus are missing from chemically extracted humic and fulvic acids. Read the article on pae 21 of Lucas formula from scratch. https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/268790-lucas-formula-recipe-scratch-really-21.html