To spray or not to spray? (leaves)

jaubry777 said:

seems like the gist of the wiki article is that people see amazing results from feeding tomatoes during flowering. what happens to plants outdoors in regions with regular or even heavy rains? I'm genuinely curious so i hope this doesn't come across as sarcastic.

#cheers

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No worries, your question does make sense after all, well i can tell you from personal experience that areas where there is heavy rainfall *usually* results in poor yields (moisture is not a cannabis flower's best friend).

jaubry777 said:

I know for a fact that Dr. Earth (Mylo whatever his last name is) uses molasses and even directs you to use it under instructions on his POTting Soil bags. In foliar feeding. So.... hopefully its not too horrible. anyway i have found that even without molasses my leaves are getting stained. probably all the goodies in my tea, bat guano, worm castings, etc...

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Then "Dr Earth" is an idiot. A well meaning idiot perhaps. But an idiot nonetheless. And staining has little to do with the whole gig. Probably a damned good thing most of you buy your food in cans and bags.

jaubry777 said:

good to know but... i feel like there's room for disagreement here in the sense that if you wash all your leaves off shortly afterwards there is no remaining residue and you have still fed them. true? or just stupid?

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Well actually I want the residue left on so it is absorbed, but I do spray down hard about every 10 days with rainwater to clean the leaves.

I spray with a weak mixture of
1)fish emulsion
2) Spray-N-Grow http://www.amazon.com/Spray-N-Grow-8-oz/dp/B000BNZLPK/ref=sr_1_15?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1360340148&sr=1-15&keywords=spray-n-grow
3) Superthrive

Spray-n-grow is 0-0-0 analysis, but it is 17 micronutrients. I feel like it helps insure no micronutrient deficiencies, which are real hard to diagnose.

There is very little NPK in the mix, just a bit in the fish emulsion. Plants need a ton of NPK and I better have my soil and roots in good shape and all that stuff will get uptaken via the roots.

I mist with rainwater every day just after lights on. Sometimes mid-day also, as my humidity tends to be low. I spray with my mix maybe twice/week. Again I've been foliar spraying and feeding for a long time and never had any problems other than more bud than I need.

Once buds start getting beefy I am careful not to get much moisture on the buds but still hit the larger fan leaves.

On plants I move outdoors I nix the fish emulsion, I suspect it might attract critters.

jaubry777 said:

this is copy/pasted from the wiki article on foliar feeding

"One way to tell if a fertilizer has been effective is to squeeze juice from the leaves of plant and to test it with a refractometer.

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Guess I need to order me a refractometer. NOT !

jaubry777 said:

I know for a fact that Dr. Earth (Mylo whatever his last name is) uses molasses and even directs you to use it under instructions on his POTting Soil bags. In foliar feeding. So.... hopefully its not too horrible. anyway i have found that even without molasses my leaves are getting stained. probably all the goodies in my tea, bat guano, worm castings, etc...

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Well Dr Earth might be right, I'm still not gonna put sugar in my soil or on my plants. Nowhere else in the world of agriculture/horticulture am I aware of this being done.

If your leaves are getting stained from your tea I think you are reducing the photosynthetic potential of your plants. Kind of like putting sun block on them. Just my opinion.

AimAim said:

Well Dr Earth might be right, I'm still not gonna put sugar in my soil or on my plants. Nowhere else in the world of agriculture/horticulture am I aware of this being done.

If your leaves are getting stained from your tea I think you are reducing the photosynthetic potential of your plants. Kind of like putting sun block on them. Just my opinion.

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Do you not grow organically? I do not atm but am looking into and from what I have been reading molasses is used pretty commonly as food for the microbes in your soil, not sure bout the foliar feed situation. It also has a little NPK but can not remember the exact numbers so wont even try. If you are interested give this guys thread a peep talks about using it a little just gotta weed through the other info
https://www.rollitup.org/organics/364864-vegan-organics-aka-veganics-matt.html

he said he doesnt agree with common knowledge. if that was me, id get attacked from all sides lol

i dont agree with foliar feeding, or even spraying plants (unless you need humidity in the room)

to each his own.

btw there has to be sugar in the soil, glucose is the main fuel for all life, and its stored different in each type of living thing.

animals and fungi have glycogen reserves, plants actually store their excess sugar/energy in their roots. the process of life that the plant goes through probably gives sugar to the soil, feeds the microbes, and in turn they feed the plant back.

its an amazing cycle.

AimAim said:

Well Dr Earth might be right, I'm still not gonna put sugar in my soil or on my plants. Nowhere else in the world of agriculture/horticulture am I aware of this being done.

If your leaves are getting stained from your tea I think you are reducing the photosynthetic potential of your plants. Kind of like putting sun block on them. Just my opinion.

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ok great, thanks! that's what i thought. All this info is much appreciated, I'm a couple weeks into veg on my second grow and attempting to hit as many focal points as possible, and i have ample time for research but very VERY low budget, haha. next time I bump into DR.Earth at a trade show I'll have a few words with him.

bmeat said:

he said he doesnt agree with common knowledge. if that was me, id get attacked from all sides lol

i dont agree with foliar feeding, or even spraying plants (unless you need humidity in the room)

to each his own.

btw there has to be sugar in the soil, glucose is the main fuel for all life, and its stored different in each type of living thing.

animals and fungi have glycogen reserves, plants actually store their excess sugar/energy in their roots. the process of life that the plant goes through probably gives sugar to the soil, feeds the microbes, and in turn they feed the plant back.

its an amazing cycle.

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Glucose is NOT the main fuel for all life or even close. Glucose IS produced BY the frigging plants and NOT eaten by them or used in any way during plant metabolism. Spraying it on leaves is idiotic and an invitation to bugs to eat away. Sugars are for the benefit of those eating the plant or the microbes in the soil.

plants produce startch, which break down to glucose right? they also use this as their main source of energy man..the excess sugar is stored in their roots.

i am not promoting the spraying of anything (besides water 1-2 times a day if room is dry), just trying to figure out how soil life works.

aimaim says moleasses is not beneficial to soil life.

and: "All the energy we consume through food is a direct or indirect result of the energy stored by photosynthesis." which means sugar or glucose, is the main/easiest form of energy for life

why would plants produce sugar if they dont use it as energy?

Because the microbes in the soil use it, the microbes in the soil form a mutual give and take relationship with the roots, one of the fundamentals of organics if I have been understanding what I have been reading, like I said I dont grow organically right now but am looking into it.

I've sprayed and not sprayed (rain water only) and really saw no difference. My grow area is temperature and humidity controlled as well as virtually dust free. In my experience if your strain is accustomed to your soil mix you don't need to do much than to let them grow. Although I do water (rain water) once in awhile with an organic molasses mix. I have tested this with noticeable good results. This molasses method is often used in vegetable gardens. All those world record pumpkins, squash etc... are soil treated with molasses. The farmers claim it's the key along with genetics. Again, if your soil is right you just need to sit back and let them do their thing which should be the case on indoor grows.

bmeat said:

btw there has to be sugar in the soil, glucose is the main fuel for all life, and its stored different in each type of living thing.

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"Sugar" in the soil ? Cellulose is as close as it gets. Beyond that everything beneficial is a result and byproduct of breaking down cellulose. Did you ever do any reading on the C-N ratio and how it changes during decomposition by soil flora/fauna?

Soil chemistry is really complex and you need to stick to the basics.

Just had an IDEA ! I'm gonna water with some addition of Mrs Butterworths syrup and my morning toke will taste like pancakes.

AimAim said:

Just had an IDEA ! I'm gonna water with some addition of Mrs Butterworths syrup and my morning toke will taste like pancakes.

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haha, brilliant! I've seen people flush with coconut water. thoughts?? sorry! not trying to distract from the main thread topic of foliar feeding.

bmeat said:

aimaim says moleasses is not beneficial to soil life.

and: "All the energy we consume through food is a direct or indirect result of the energy stored by photosynthesis." which means sugar or glucose, is the main/easiest form of energy for life

why would plants produce sugar if they dont use it as energy?[/B]

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Molasses probably IS beneficial to soil life, but NOT ALL SOIL LIFE IS BENEFICIAL. Lots of fungi, rots, molds it can promote that I do not want.

Yeah plants do PROCESS sugars but THEY HAVE PRODUCED IT BY THEMSELVES. From macro and micro nutrients, water, and atmospheric gasses.

You can drink a soda with loaded with corn syrup, or eat some whole grain bread. Both end up being metabolized and processed as a carb/sugar but which is better for you?

Had a lot of soils classes and never remember sugars being mentioned ONE TIME in the soil environment.

i agree 100% same reason we dont want to substitue hormones into our body (which are lipids), becuase then our body will stop making them naturally so we dont have an excess/toxic amount! plus, the hormones we make are 100% better quality than synthesized ones!!

i would rather my plant work to make its own sugar.

i would also rather my plant work to send the nutes and water that should be in the soil to the foliage, instead of spraying them.

bmeat said:

i agree 100% same reason we dont want to substitue hormones into our body (which are lipids), becuase then our body will stop making them naturally so we dont have an excess/toxic amount! plus, the hormones we make are 100% better quality than synthesized ones!!
.

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You make my head spin.

bmeat said:

i would rather my plant work to make its own sugar.

i would also rather my plant work to send the nutes and water that should be in the soil to the foliage, instead of spraying them.

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this is something i totally agree with! I remember hearing a story about an apple tree that wouldnt fruit, year after year passed until finally a passer-by heard of the problem at hand. He grabbed a baseball bat and smacked the hell outta the trunk, cursing at the tree, stressed it into fruiting and it has every year sense. The tree thought it was on its last limb and fruited. make the plants do as much work as they possibly can, and figure out every method to do it without spending money!

but apple trees bear fruit every year not bear fruit then die, so the stress into thinking its gonna die does not seem to apply here. Lil stoned when we were righting this?

natro.hydro said:

but apple trees bear fruit every year not bear fruit then die, so the stress into thinking its gonna die does not seem to apply here. Lil stoned when we were righting this?

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lil stoned when reading this?? everyone here should be really stoned at all times if living properly! anyway, what i had said was the tree was no longer fruiting, it had been say 5 years of no apples...

im really just touching on the topic of beneficial abuse. pinching, snapping, etc... make the plant do as much as possible without too much negative stress. off to foliar feed, happy growing everyone!