Trying to make CC'S mix but compost is in question

Yzfirecat · May 4, 2017

I got everything I need to make 9cf CC's super soil. But My local farm labels their compost as black gold. I just got 25 gallons of it and it has a lot of small pieces of wood in it. Is this okay. It's really dark n thick. But I thought wood was bad cuz it messes with ph.

greasemonkeymann · May 4, 2017

Yzfirecat said:
I got everything I need to make 9cf CC's super soil. But My local farm labels their compost as black gold. I just got 25 gallons of it and it has a lot of small pieces of wood in it. Is this okay. It's really dark n thick. But I thought wood was bad cuz it messes with ph. View attachment 3936243 View attachment 3936244

meh... yea man, that's the typical "problem" with most composts
the issue being as "compost" seems to be a fairly vague term....
annnnnd more often than not "compost" actually means "forest byproducts, ground and partially composted"
i'd screen that compost for sure, the wood is more of an issue with the sequestering of nitrogen, the ph could maybe be an issue, but that's more predicated on what type of wood it is.
I don't wanna throw shade at ya man, but i'd see if you can find some better stuff
plus with that compost being unscreened like that it should be crawling with worms.. like writhing..
what i'd do is go through craigslist man.. you usually find some organic nerdy-hippie dudes or homesteaders that do their own composting.
considering you already bought it, i'd simply add all that to a new compost pile. Just finish it and it'll be good, layer that a couple inches thick and sprinkle grass clippings or alfalfa meal on it, like a quarter inch or so, and do that (layer it like that at least 5 times), and it'll be steaming in a lil bit and finished composting in like a month or so
EDIT-- just noticed you said it's only 25 gallons, that's not enough to do a compost. you could do a mini compost in a big smartpot, like a 50 gal or so, and layer the same way, just gotta make sure it stays moist (not wet)
not saying that compost is bad, just saying it ain't done
and in all reality? the wood products probably wouldn't cause any actual discernible problems, but in theory it may...
but past all that it's not the best soil input anyways
the "dark" color is a good sign though
usually the concern with using wood products is more directed to the fresher stuff, sawdust, and the like.

so i suppose a short answer would be "it'd probably be alright but isn't ideal"
but for me a "probably" isn't gonna fly with an entire soil mix
not when compost is as crucial as it is.

greasemonkeymann · May 4, 2017

Yzfirecat said:
I got everything I need to make 9cf CC's super soil. But My local farm labels their compost as black gold. I just got 25 gallons of it and it has a lot of small pieces of wood in it. Is this okay. It's really dark n thick. But I thought wood was bad cuz it messes with ph. View attachment 3936243 View attachment 3936244

if screened well and matched with a good type of aeration i'd be more comfortable using it
the thing is though, when you see a compost like that, it's not going to be as nutrient dense as a typical compost made with leaves and grass and such.
remember the primary thing we are using the compost for is the humus and fresh microbes, if it lacks in those two areas it's sorta not helpful
well, at least it'd be not doing the job that it's supposed to
so if you did use that after screening you may want to see if you could find worm castings for the microbes
that's what i'd do given the circumstances

Yzfirecat · May 4, 2017

greasemonkeymann said:
meh... yea man, that's the typical "problem" with most composts
the issue being as "compost" seems to be a fairly vague term....
annnnnd more often than not "compost" actually means "forest byproducts, ground and partially composted"
i'd screen that compost for sure, the wood is more of an issue with the sequestering of nitrogen, the ph could maybe be an issue, but that's more predicated on what type of wood it is.
I don't wanna throw shade at ya man, but i'd see if you can find some better stuff
plus with that compost being unscreened like that it should be crawling with worms.. like writhing..
what i'd do is go through craigslist man.. you usually find some organic nerdy-hippie dudes or homesteaders that do their own composting.
considering you already bought it, i'd simply add all that to a new compost pile. Just finish it and it'll be good, layer that a couple inches thick and sprinkle grass clippings or alfalfa meal on it, like a quarter inch or so, and do that (layer it like that at least 5 times), and it'll be steaming in a lil bit and finished composting in like a month or so
EDIT-- just noticed you said it's only 25 gallons, that's not enough to do a compost. you could do a mini compost in a big smartpot, like a 50 gal or so, and layer the same way, just gotta make sure it stays moist (not wet)
not saying that compost is bad, just saying it ain't done
and in all reality? the wood products probably wouldn't cause any actual discernible problems, but in theory it may...
but past all that it's not the best soil input anyways
the "dark" color is a good sign though
usually the concern with using wood products is more directed to the fresher stuff, sawdust, and the like.

so i suppose a short answer would be "it'd probably be alright but isn't ideal"
but for me a "probably: isn't gonna fly with an entire soil mix
not when compost is as crucial as it is.

I'll look on craigs list thanks.But this is all I got locally besides 2cf of happy frog soil. I got all the peatmoss perlite and nutrient and mineral mix to make it. So I think I'll just give it a whirl needs to sit for 2wks and I'm transplanting outside in 3. Thanks for the info I'll have to find better compost next year.

Yzfirecat · May 4, 2017

greasemonkeymann said:
if screened well and matched with a good type of aeration i'd be more comfortable using it
the thing is though, when you see a compost like that, it's not going to be as nutrient dense as a typical compost made with leaves and grass and such.
remember the primary thing we are using the compost for is the humus and fresh microbes, if it lacks in those two areas it's sorta not helpful
well, at least it'd be not doing the job that it's supposed to
so if you did use that after screening you may want to see if you could find worm castings for the microbes
that's what i'd do given the circumstances

Have u ever heard of a bad batch of wiggle worm castings my local hydro store has 30lb bags but have read else where about bad bugs n stuff in it sometimes.

greasemonkeymann · May 4, 2017

@Yzfirecat
well, i couldn't say, i haven't bought worm castings in nearly a decade or so
i can safely say that i would for SURE go with a local source over a commercial bagged one.
craigslist man, it'll probably be cheaper, probably not even screened without the worms
usually the homesteaders/hippy vermicomposters aren't concerned with screening the mix for eggs or worms, which means you get worms for free too
also means that the microbial diversity and health is gonna be better/fresher too
annnnnd even still?
many people that are vermicomposters are in fact organic cannabis growers also...
I've met three..
always good to meet fellow organic growers too
go local man
another option is well composted cow manure too, the older the better, and if it's a normal healthy environment the manure is gonna be loaded with worms too
and again, all local.
craigslist is your buddy

greasemonkeymann · May 4, 2017

Yzfirecat said:
I'll look on craigs list thanks.But this is all I got locally besides 2cf of happy frog soil. I got all the peatmoss perlite and nutrient and mineral mix to make it. So I think I'll just give it a whirl needs to sit for 2wks and I'm transplanting outside in 3. Thanks for the info I'll have to find better compost next year.

be CAREFUL adding nutrients to an already existing mix man...
and be careful doing that with an unknown compost too
wait, i'm confused, is that to be made WITH the happy frog mix?
or instead of?
ah shit, i forgot to finish my point earlier, i got distracted with this crazy customer-bitch-lady..
so a BIG concern i'd have with that compost too, is if it was made by a municipal company...
if so it's likely to be based on sewage sludge... and you sure as shit don't want that.
a whooooooole lotta residual amounts of alllll sorts of funky shit is in the sewage... a lot of antiibiotics, medications, hormones, and shit
you don't wanna smoke any of that at ALL
absolutely ZERO research or studies have been done on anything like that, and you don't wanna be a guinea pig
i do know that a lot of that stuff is NOT composted/cleaned/whatnot by the traditional water treatment.
i know you said it was from a farm, but i just wanted to make sure it wasn't from a waste treatment or municipal facility

Yzfirecat · May 4, 2017

greasemonkeymann said:
be CAREFUL adding nutrients to an already existing mix man...
and be careful doing that with an unknown compost too
wait, i'm confused, is that to be made WITH the happy frog mix?
or instead of?
ah shit, i forgot to finish my point earlier, i got distracted with this crazy customer-bitch-lady..
so a BIG concern i'd have with that compost too, is if it was made by a municipal company...
if so it's likely to be based on sewage sludge... and you sure as shit don't want that.
a whooooooole lotta residual amounts of alllll sorts of funky shit is in the sewage... a lot of antiibiotics, medications, hormones, and shit
you don't wanna smoke any of that at ALL
absolutely ZERO research or studies have been done on anything like that, and you don't wanna be a guinea pig
i do know that a lot of that stuff is NOT composted/cleaned/whatnot by the traditional water treatment.
i know you said it was from a farm, but i just wanted to make sure it wasn't from a waste treatment or municipal facility

OK let me clarify. I bought a super soil mix with organic minerals and nutrients from build a soil. I have to mix it with peat moss perlite n compost and let it sit for 2wks I have 22gallons of each part. I was just saying I have happy frog soil also. Thought maybe I could mix in with the compost i got since it wasn't the best.

Yzfirecat · May 4, 2017

greasemonkeymann said:
be CAREFUL adding nutrients to an already existing mix man...
and be careful doing that with an unknown compost too
wait, i'm confused, is that to be made WITH the happy frog mix?
or instead of?
ah shit, i forgot to finish my point earlier, i got distracted with this crazy customer-bitch-lady..
so a BIG concern i'd have with that compost too, is if it was made by a municipal company...
if so it's likely to be based on sewage sludge... and you sure as shit don't want that.
a whooooooole lotta residual amounts of alllll sorts of funky shit is in the sewage... a lot of antiibiotics, medications, hormones, and shit
you don't wanna smoke any of that at ALL
absolutely ZERO research or studies have been done on anything like that, and you don't wanna be a guinea pig
i do know that a lot of that stuff is NOT composted/cleaned/whatnot by the traditional water treatment.
i know you said it was from a farm, but i just wanted to make sure it wasn't from a waste treatment or municipal facility

No its from my local farm very popular farm they got a great reputation. But the compost was iffy just because of the wood in it they use a tumbler to process it right where u fill ur buckets.

greasemonkeymann · May 4, 2017

Yzfirecat said:
OK let me clarify. I bought a super soil mix with organic minerals and nutrients from build a soil. I have to mix it with peat moss perlite n compost and let it sit for 2wks I have 22gallons of each part. I was just saying I have happy frog soil also. Thought maybe I could mix in with the compost i got since it wasn't the best.

ahhh, i gotcha
hmm, what nutrients are you adding?
any "green" based nitrogen?
like comfrey, dandelion, nettles, alfalfa?
i'd use your minerals, and some alfalfa and make a mini compost to give that a good two weeks with some nitrogen to kickstart the composting up again, problem with wood is that it needs a good amount of fungi to do that, and that's a lil more slow than a normal bacterial inoculation
but that's what i'd do
use that happy frog in the meantime, and by the time they need a trans you'll have some pimp compost ready, also it cycles those organic nutrients as well, establishes a nice interaction time with the minerals and the fungi too
a win/win.
knowhattamean verne?
no need to cycle the soil if you do it that way either, not to mention you'll have a MUCH better/diverse microbial situation going on in that too

Yzfirecat · May 4, 2017

This is what's in it exactly. I'm using Recharge as well if you've heard of it

greasemonkeymann · May 4, 2017

Yzfirecat said:
This is what's in it exactly. I'm using Recharge as well if you've heard of itView attachment 3936405

hmm.. not sure i'd quite go with that high of an amount of minerals
it's also a lot of calcium, you have that in LARGE amounts in the gypsum, crab, and oyster meal.
smaller amounts in the neem and kelp as well.
i'm not seeing much with the magnesium though, with large amounts of cal you want to have the mag there with it.
i'd go with less minerals than 4 cups per cubic foot
i'd go with some alfalfa as well, the nitrogen in the crab/shrimp meals is not available at first
for me gypsum, d-lime and oyster meal is more a soil amendment for it's overall construction, rather than a source of minerals in the traditional sense
but that may just be me.
minerals for me would be more so like basalt, andesite, granite, azomite, etc
those are typically added more for the slow release of nutrients (micros and potassium mostly) and their interaction with organics and fungi in particular.
rather than the gypsum, oyster meal, d lime etc, that is typically used more for ph control of correcting existing problems with the soil

i know, i'm sorry, its just semantics
and i may be the only one who looks at it that way
but i'd be all over adding a couple cups of that basalt per cubic foot
and a cup of oyster meal for the ph buffering.

but in my opinion that mix is a lil shy on mag and nitrogen.
neem and crab meals aren't going to give you maximum growth in regards to nitrogen.
well, i should say it won't if you are adding the traditional amounts to the mix
typical amendment for a cubic foot is 2-3 cups of nutrients, depending on which you use.
i reaaally like neem meal though, one of my favorites.
but it pairs better with fish meal or alfalfa meal if used as the nitrogen source, remember the crab/shrimp meals is much slower to become available
ideally, if it were me i'd try and get some fish meal, and/or some alfalfa.
add 2-3 cups per cubic foot of the nutrients
1 cup neem meal
1 cup kelp meal
and a half cup of the crab
and a half cup of the fish meal

i'm not trying to be a critic either man, just tryin to help
that mix as is would grow plants fine, i'd just tweak a couple things personally to make it a lil more effective over the course of the plants life.
but i don't like to try and correct problems in container plants, because quite simply its HARD, and 100% of the time it slows the plant down.
even if easily corrected the plant still lost that time and never will get it back.

Yzfirecat · May 4, 2017

Unfortunately the minerals come mixed in a bag n the nutrients in another mixed. So I can't get just a certain one unless I go buy more on its own. I appreciate the help man. Its my first super soil n I just want the ladies happy without dumping bottled nuits on them. I'll grab some alfalfa meal to use and I'll just make my soil a cubic foot at a time with a cup or so less than the company recommends. There going into 7gal fabric pots.

Yzfirecat · May 4, 2017

Yea so the 4 cups are total of all that minerals mix in. not just one mineral as u can see in the pics I posted. Does that make more sense to you. I just realized that's how it looked to you because I never said it's all mixed already my bad.

Yzfirecat · May 5, 2017

greasemonkeymann said:
meh... yea man, that's the typical "problem" with most composts
the issue being as "compost" seems to be a fairly vague term....
annnnnd more often than not "compost" actually means "forest byproducts, ground and partially composted"
i'd screen that compost for sure, the wood is more of an issue with the sequestering of nitrogen, the ph could maybe be an issue, but that's more predicated on what type of wood it is.
I don't wanna throw shade at ya man, but i'd see if you can find some better stuff
plus with that compost being unscreened like that it should be crawling with worms.. like writhing..
what i'd do is go through craigslist man.. you usually find some organic nerdy-hippie dudes or homesteaders that do their own composting.
considering you already bought it, i'd simply add all that to a new compost pile. Just finish it and it'll be good, layer that a couple inches thick and sprinkle grass clippings or alfalfa meal on it, like a quarter inch or so, and do that (layer it like that at least 5 times), and it'll be steaming in a lil bit and finished composting in like a month or so
EDIT-- just noticed you said it's only 25 gallons, that's not enough to do a compost. you could do a mini compost in a big smartpot, like a 50 gal or so, and layer the same way, just gotta make sure it stays moist (not wet)
not saying that compost is bad, just saying it ain't done
and in all reality? the wood products probably wouldn't cause any actual discernible problems, but in theory it may...
but past all that it's not the best soil input anyways
the "dark" color is a good sign though
usually the concern with using wood products is more directed to the fresher stuff, sawdust, and the like.

so i suppose a short answer would be "it'd probably be alright but isn't ideal"
but for me a "probably" isn't gonna fly with an entire soil mix
not when compost is as crucial as it is.

OK I found a guy on Craigslist that sells composted cow manure loaded with worms turned multiple times. I'll use that instead of the 25 gallons of compost that I got originally. That should provide the microbes and stuff along with the everything else I'm adding I'm mixing in correct. I always thought manure wasn't ok to use as soil just an additive to it.

greasemonkeymann · May 5, 2017

Yzfirecat said:
OK I found a guy on Craigslist that sells composted cow manure loaded with worms turned multiple times. I'll use that instead of the 25 gallons of compost that I got originally. That should provide the microbes and stuff along with the everything else I'm adding I'm mixing in correct. I always thought manure wasn't ok to use as soil just an additive to it.

ah, yea, no that's a speck different, if you were to use that as the base portion you'd have problems.
you want to use probably no more than 20% of your mix as manure, you'll still need some coco or peat as the "inert" portion of humus
i say that in parentheses because it's not inert at all, just WAY slower to degrade than compost does.
cow manure is good stuff to use, especially when it's well composted like that.
and you'll need to go reaaaal light on all the nutrients now, like VERY light.
in fact if you are going to amend past that i'd maybe go at 15% for the manure
use the extra manure to make a worm bin too, you'll be like 2 weeks ahead of normal that way
damn near an instant-wormbin
i'd layer the manure with whole tree leaves, and cover the wormbin with wet cardboard to keep the birds and critters from eating the worms
also keeps it a nice moisture too.
get like a 35 gallon smartpot for that and you are DONE.
in hindsight i wished that's what i did, took me a good 3 weeks to get the population going in my bin
i'd amend a good 2 cups of basalt to that, along with a cup of oyster meal if you are using peat as the base. (EDIT, the soil, not the worms)
to that i'd add a half cup of neem, and a half cup of crab meal and a half cup of kelp meal
you could easily go without any nutrients past the manure though.
also don't forget the aeration/drainage
for those i'd go with pumice, volcanic rock, and/or perlite.
at a 40% or so rate too

Yzfirecat · May 5, 2017

OK so I'll just add 3/4cf of manure to the 2 1/4 compost n 2cf of peat moss n perlite. I'll add a 1/4 of the bag of nutrients and minerals. I'll definitely make a worm farm Thanks for that. I'll keep my fingers crossed n hope this will make the girls happy for the summer. Thanks for all your help I really appreciate it man.

greasemonkeymann · May 5, 2017

Yzfirecat said:
OK so I'll just add 3/4cf of manure to the 2 1/4 compost n 2cf of peat moss n perlite. I'll add a 1/4 of the bag of nutrients and minerals. I'll definitely make a worm farm Thanks for that. I'll keep my fingers crossed n hope this will make the girls happy for the summer. Thanks for all your help I really appreciate it man.

anytime man, i'm here 830-4pm PST
anything i can do to help
another thing i'd do is screen that compost you got too, that'll be a good thing to do as well, and i'd match the amount of that compost with extra aeration.
so the compost going in should be screened and matched 1/1 with aeration before adding to the mix.
remember any extra soil you have can easily be used as part of that base for the wormbin, or even a new compost pile.
but i want to emphasis my point on aeration...
don't skimp on it at all
varying sizes too
in bigger containers you want larger forms of aeration also, and make sure the drainage areas of the container are ample also
i typically add holes in the sides to most containers i have, roughly .5 to .75 of an inch in diameter
an exacto scalpel works brilliantly for that
annnd always cut away from yourself with those man... those will damn near disembowel you if you fuck up

greasemonkeymann · May 5, 2017

Yzfirecat said:
OK so I'll just add 3/4cf of manure to the 2 1/4 compost n 2cf of peat moss n perlite. I'll add a 1/4 of the bag of nutrients and minerals. I'll definitely make a worm farm Thanks for that. I'll keep my fingers crossed n hope this will make the girls happy for the summer. Thanks for all your help I really appreciate it man.

totally forgot to ask you if it's an outdoor grow or not, that's sorta fairly relevant...
outdoors you can go a good amount higher in the manure
i know peeps with 33% of their mix as manure..
and their shit is MASSIVE each yr too
but if it's outside you could stay with the 20% amount and still add SMALL amounts of the nutrients.

natureboygrower · May 5, 2017

greasemonkeymann said:
hmm.. not sure i'd quite go with that high of an amount of minerals
it's also a lot of calcium, you have that in LARGE amounts in the gypsum, crab, and oyster meal.
smaller amounts in the neem and kelp as well.
i'm not seeing much with the magnesium though, with large amounts of cal you want to have the mag there with it.
i'd go with less minerals than 4 cups per cubic foot
i'd go with some alfalfa as well, the nitrogen in the crab/shrimp meals is not available at first
for me gypsum, d-lime and oyster meal is more a soil amendment for it's overall construction, rather than a source of minerals in the traditional sense
but that may just be me.
minerals for me would be more so like basalt, andesite, granite, azomite, etc
those are typically added more for the slow release of nutrients (micros and potassium mostly) and their interaction with organics and fungi in particular.
rather than the gypsum, oyster meal, d lime etc, that is typically used more for ph control of correcting existing problems with the soil

i know, i'm sorry, its just semantics
and i may be the only one who looks at it that way
but i'd be all over adding a couple cups of that basalt per cubic foot
and a cup of oyster meal for the ph buffering.

but in my opinion that mix is a lil shy on mag and nitrogen.
neem and crab meals aren't going to give you maximum growth in regards to nitrogen.
well, i should say it won't if you are adding the traditional amounts to the mix
typical amendment for a cubic foot is 2-3 cups of nutrients, depending on which you use.
i reaaally like neem meal though, one of my favorites.
but it pairs better with fish meal or alfalfa meal if used as the nitrogen source, remember the crab/shrimp meals is much slower to become available
ideally, if it were me i'd try and get some fish meal, and/or some alfalfa.
add 2-3 cups per cubic foot of the nutrients
1 cup neem meal
1 cup kelp meal
and a half cup of the crab
and a half cup of the fish meal

i'm not trying to be a critic either man, just tryin to help
that mix as is would grow plants fine, i'd just tweak a couple things personally to make it a lil more effective over the course of the plants life.
but i don't like to try and correct problems in container plants, because quite simply its HARD, and 100% of the time it slows the plant down.
even if easily corrected the plant still lost that time and never will get it back.

so you would dial back the amount of rock dusts but bump up your neem,kelp with a fish and/or alfafa added in? am i following?

edit
hey while youre around @greasemonkeymann im making some spruce planters.do you see any issue with lining the insides with a heavy mil plastic to keep the moisture off the wood.these will be full of dirt year round outside.im concerned about plastic in my mix but weve all grown in plastic pots,right?

Trying to make CC'S mix but compost is in question

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