Trying to put a soil reciepe together with what I have.

This is what I have to use
1 Bone Meal
2 Blood Meal
3 Bat Guano 0-5-0
4 Kelp
5 Alfalfa
6 EWC
7 Leaf Compost
8 My own compost
9 Rock Phosphate
10 Azomite
11 Oyster Shell Flour
12 Dolomite Lime
13 Epsom Salt
14 Epsom Garden and Tomato Tone
15 BioAG TM-7
I also have 2x 1.5cu of FFOF and 2cu of Happy Frog. I would like to find out the quantity of the amendments to add to the soil I have. I have tried to amend my own soil a few times but it has fallen short in flower around week 5 or 6. I would really like to know about the dolomite lime and oyster shell and how much to add. I don't want to over do them and mess up the PH. I try and use rain water when I can but if I run out I use tap water. The PH is 7.9-8.5 out of the tap. I bubble for a day or two before using. I just bought a 4 cob Vero29 V7 3500K for a 3.5x3.5 room. Any help would be cool and thanks for the help if you do so.

Thanks
JB

Nice grab on the LED mate, 3500k will make for some fats stems and leaves and fast growth as well!

Basic Organic Guidelines

Meals:

1/2 cup per 1 cu. ft. of base,

Crab/shrimp Meal
Indian Neem Meal
Icelandic Kelp Meal

or mix them, and then add 1.5 cups per cu. ft. of Meal Mix


Rock / Minerals:

4 cups per cu. ft.

Mix of Basalt (highly paramagnetic, trace minerals), Gypsum (Calcium and Sulfur), and Oyster Shell Flour (Calcium Carbonate, pH buffer)

each cubic foot is 7.48 or 7.5 US gallons btw, or 28 Litres

That said, based on the above, you have some options..
what I would do is do a like Vamp blend vs a Rasta blend and compare the results, see what you like best, I bet you'd like Rasta for medical/personal and Rasta/Vamp for commercial

Vamp Blend:

Use items 1 through 15, except the last 3, use those as needed or when best timed.


Rasta Blend:

[Pathogen free, GMO free, less manure, etc. Overall just a bit cleaner, I'm not so much against the products above overall as I am opposed to the quality control of them so I like this type of recipe even though I'm not vegan nor a cancer patient, but I also like fish bone meal and my rabbits full spectrum compost lol ]

15% EWC
35% Compost Mix
30% leaf compost
5-10% Oyster Shell Flour
10-15% (Rotting wood, biochar, some kind of good aeration, like rice hulls o pumice)

Then add:

Kelp meal, 2 cups per cu. ft. (thats right, its about 4x, I did SxS studies though at 1, 2, and 3%, its fine)
Neem meal, (later is fine), 1 cup per cu. ft.
Alfafa, 0.25 -.5 cups per cu. ft.

and then a few cups of rock mix per cu. ft.

If you don't skip on the rocks and you have fungus layered into the soil, should be a strong finish. The paramagnetic basalt does help that too though...

remember, you can always grow some fungal dom soil by sprinkling some ground oats (organic) on the soil, and leave it warm and moist, that will up yield and finish too especially that finish line, you can do that for teas, top dresses and as you build, its cheap and its powerful

DonTesla said:

Nice grab on the LED mate, 3500k will make for some fats stems and leaves and fast growth as well!

Basic Organic Guidelines

Meals:

1/2 cup per 1 cu. ft. of base,

Crab/shrimp Meal
Indian Neem Meal
Icelandic Kelp Meal

or mix them, and then add 1.5 cups per cu. ft. of Meal Mix


Rock / Minerals:

4 cups per cu. ft.

Mix of Basalt (highly paramagnetic, trace minerals), Gypsum (Calcium and Sulfur), and Oyster Shell Flour (Calcium Carbonate, pH buffer)

each cubic foot is 7.48 or 7.5 US gallons btw, or 28 Litres

Click to expand...

Hey DonTesla, thank you for the great info, I got a couple questions for you.

What would you consider a good replacement for neem meal? I can't find it in any local stores and shipping it would be expensive.

Is oyster shell meal acceptable instead of oyster shell flour?

Thank you!

Silly me. I use Miracle grow potting soil and perlite in a 60/40 mix, chunk in 6 tablespoons of lime and that's it.

Total cost for a two plant grow: about 8 dollars. I net 10.5 ounces on average. (The last one I got just short of 12.)

wow, I put a scoop of Botanicare ferts into a bucket of pro mix, thats it, water too of course, and no flushing.

thundergodfist said:

Hey DonTesla, thank you for the great info, I got a couple questions for you.

What would you consider a good replacement for neem meal? I can't find it in any local stores and shipping it would be expensive.

Is oyster shell meal acceptable instead of oyster shell flour?

Thank you!

Click to expand...

I've never heard of oyster shell meal, but if I had to guess I would say they're about the same? Oyster shell is a buffering agent as well as a source of calcium, I would guess the only difference between the meal and flour is in the consistency. The meal might just not be as fine as the flour, so it might take a little bit longer for it to be available, but they should be about the same unless I'm mistaken?

thundergodfist said:

Hey DonTesla, thank you for the great info, I got a couple questions for you.

What would you consider a good replacement for neem meal? I can't find it in any local stores and shipping it would be expensive.

Is oyster shell meal acceptable instead of oyster shell flour?

Thank you!

Click to expand...

It's all about the *mesh size*, the actual fineness of the material. Oyster shell flour is about the consistency of baking flour. Oyster shell meal (like chicken scratch/grit), is much more coarse and is pretty much useless for pH/buffering purposes as it takes several years to have any effect. I do believe GMM uses it as a aeration additive, but ???

Pulverized dolomite lime is usually very cheap and available locally ($4.50/40lb bag), if the shipping on OSF is too much. I know it is for me and about all I use is dolomite.

There is no real substitute for neem cake and I bite the bullet on that. But, neem cake and kelp meal are pretty much the only 2 things I'll pay to ship. Everything else is sourced locally.

There are very few things that don't have a substitute or replacement, but kelp and neem really don't.

I had to order the Neem meal due to the fact that I can't get it local and I hear nothing but good things about it. From what I have read so far, I don't think the question about using the lime and oyster shell flour at the same time was answered. If it has, I just don't see it in the posts. How much of each would you use or would you use one over the other.. The last two soils that I have made fell short in the end. I do use compost and EWC teas with Espoma Tomato Tone as a top dress. I think that my Ph is messing it up and I don't have a tester, at least not a good one. The amendments that I have are what I can get locally. I would love to get some Basalt but it is to expensive to order online. I have to go with the Azomite powder. (which I do like) I have been liking the post so far but could do without the (I just use MG). That is not what the OP is about. I'm looking for help with the products that I have.
I always search for my answers to my questions first but can't find the answers to the ones that I have about the lime and oyster shell and how much. When adding amendments I see people saying to use 1/2 cup and others saying 1 1/2 cups per/cf. I know not to use 1 1/2 cups of something like bone meal to amended soil.

Thanks
JB

DonTesla I do want to give you credit for your reply. I agree with you about some of the products that I have used like the blood meal and bone meal. I could go without them, I just had them laying around. If I was to use the Rasta blend would it get me from start to finish. I Have perlite for the aeration.

thundergodfist said:

Hey DonTesla, thank you for the great info, I got a couple questions for you.

What would you consider a good replacement for neem meal? I can't find it in any local stores and shipping it would be expensive.

Is oyster shell meal acceptable instead of oyster shell flour?

Thank you!

Click to expand...

Pleasure is mine, amigo.

For no neem, no one product can replace it, so you want to try find a bit of a P source or tea as well as chitin source for auto-immune responses.. neem covers both beautifully and embarks a nice flavour boost too as does kelp, changes the terps a lot.
if you cant get a bug frass or mealworm frass you could use cricket frass from craigslist or even easier, make Lacto Bacillus serum. From there you could use the lacto to make some more complex defense solutions, all makable for free essentially.

Oyster shell meal will work, you just want to run it thru a nutribullet or garage sale blender to get er nice and finer. Wet is right about that.. unless you're soaking it, its gonna take a long time to release.. although if you up your mycelium fungus (sprinkle oat flour etc) and myco (at transplant best, if possible), those alone will help max your intake of the minerals and dusts.

For the paramagnetic source, if you cant get basalt or blue rock dust as its also known as, just cement dust will do, granted its free of any additives... usually at any Home Depot. If not, glacial will do. If you cant get glacial then up the lava rock, any landscaping yard should have Burgundy or black lava, if not, can make some biochar (See Don's Dirt in Organics section for videos of different DIY ways) or use some sand. Builders is better than river, better porosity, less rounded. Greensand would be be better. But if ALL that fails, then you can use a Tower Power (Plastic tube with Sand paper) at least, and the paragmagnetic & soil's forces will be amplified. the 5000+ lightning bolts around the globe will then start working for you around the clock.

Ps. Dont forget you got coconut water, aloe, and dandelions, borage, comfrey, nettles, cinnamon, spicy peppers, herbs, etc all on your side too.

Nature is loaded with ways to help just look at whats available and abundant almost anything has bio-value

jbooley said:

I had to order the Neem meal due to the fact that I can't get it local and I hear nothing but good things about it. From what I have read so far, I don't think the question about using the lime and oyster shell flour at the same time was answered. If it has, I just don't see it in the posts. How much of each would you use or would you use one over the other.. The last two soils that I have made fell short in the end. I do use compost and EWC teas with Espoma Tomato Tone as a top dress. I think that my Ph is messing it up and I don't have a tester, at least not a good one. The amendments that I have are what I can get locally. I would love to get some Basalt but it is to expensive to order online. I have to go with the Azomite powder. (which I do like) I have been liking the post so far but could do without the (I just use MG). That is not what the OP is about. I'm looking for help with the products that I have.
I always search for my answers to my questions first but can't find the answers to the ones that I have about the lime and oyster shell and how much. When adding amendments I see people saying to use 1/2 cup and others saying 1 1/2 cups per/cf. I know not to use 1 1/2 cups of something like bone meal to amended soil.

Thanks
JB

Click to expand...

Rasta blend, never did it with no neem but if so, what I'd do is..
Push that kelp to 3% of total volume vs the usual 2 (3% I've tested its actually 3.5 cups per cu. ft.) and let it mellow for x days with some oatmeal flour on top.. add a bit of sand to it if you can or more perlite, get it to 40% air. Depending if you get greensand or not you can always finish with teas, coco and or aloe waterings.. the point is, its going to be a cleaner, meaner, slaughterhouse free herb that will be able to be smoked at day 2 or 3 of the cure and enjoyed like its 6 weeks cured..

Also, JB, whenever in doubt you can always try both ways in small test pots, on clones or tomato seedlings, and from there, you can always mix styles and roll with the wisdom from the experiment

By the way, as you likely know, Cold waterings too early, big fast temp drops, several things can hinder the mighty calcium complex, which implicates over 1000 chemical processes.
not just nutrient imbalances, so just try build a good soil and compost and then it should be less factors to manage finish strong.

Speaking of finished..

The indicators of compost maturity:
1) C:N Ratio. Between 10:1 and 20:1 with 11:1 being optimal (over 25:1 can have issues)
2) Temperature. Unstable = seeing a 20*C change over 10 days or less.
3) EC. <2.0mmo
4) pH. Between 6 & 7.5
5) Nitrate. 600-2000ppm Greenhouse optimal. 100 min to 300ppm max otherwise.
6) Ammonium:Nitrate ratio. Less than 1:1.
7) Containments. Heat sterile any possible pathogens to 55*C for 15 days, screen physical debris


and just for some comparison/personal notes

High Brix Gardening, Ideal Farming Ratios
1) Trace Minerals; Pounds per Acre
2) Nitrogen & Sulphur; Tens of Pounds per Acre.
3) Phosphorus, Magnesium, Potassium; Hundred of Pounds per Acre.
4) Calcium & Carbons; Thousands of Pounds per Acre

5) Calcium to Phosphorus, 18 to 1
6) Calcium to Magnesium, 7 to 1
7) Calcium to Potassium, 9 to 1
Aka Calcium: Phos: Potass = 18 : 1 : 2
9) Limestone to Gypsum, between 4 to 1 and 30 to 1

Ok JB, I'll try and give you a definative answer on the Dolomite/Oyster shell flour question.

The normal application rate for a liming agent is 1cup/cf of mix. A bit more is ok if you are using other acidic componenents, up to 1 1/2 cups/cf. *I* use a bit extra because I also incorporate pine bark fines in my mix and do the 1 1/2 cup amount. Any combo of the 2 will work as long as you end up with the correct total amount.

I will say, that personally, I no longer use just calcitic lime (Oyster shell flour), because I ran into mag deficiencys. Still use it, but in combonation with the dolo (1cup dolo, 1/2cup calcitic). This works well for my personal situation.

Don't stress or overthink it too much. Just get a cup or so of whichever you choose in there and see how it works. Adjust, or not, on the next run. Theory will get you started, reality will show you how to procede.

DonTesla thanks again. I do have the Neem Meal and I can get the greensand and gypsum also have some rock phosphate I can use. Would that work along with the Azomite powder. Also I forgot that about the comfrey I have growing in the yard..LOL I just put it in last year and it is growing like a weed. Do you just let the comfrey sit in a bucket of water for a week or two.

Wetdog said:

Ok JB, I'll try and give you a definative answer on the Dolomite/Oyster shell flour question.

The normal application rate for a liming agent is 1cup/cf of mix. A bit more is ok if you are using other acidic componenents, up to 1 1/2 cups/cf. *I* use a bit extra because I also incorporate pine bark fines in my mix and do the 1 1/2 cup amount. Any combo of the 2 will work as long as you end up with the correct total amount.

I will say, that personally, I no longer use just calcitic lime (Oyster shell flour), because I ran into mag deficiencys. Still use it, but in combonation with the dolo (1cup dolo, 1/2cup calcitic). This works well for my personal situation.

Don't stress or overthink it too much. Just get a cup or so of whichever you choose in there and see how it works. Adjust, or not, on the next run. Theory will get you started, reality will show you how to procede.

Click to expand...

Thanks... That was what I was looking for

JB

jbooley said:

DonTesla thanks again. I do have the Neem Meal and I can get the greensand and gypsum also have some rock phosphate I can use. Would that work along with the Azomite powder. Also I forgot that about the comfrey I have growing in the yard..LOL I just put it in last year and it is growing like a weed. Do you just let the comfrey sit in a bucket of water for a week or two.

Click to expand...

You can literally slice the comfrey up like cabbage and it will melt right into the topsoil, great compost additive too, and you can do a steeped tea as well, yes. Its awesome. You got more than you thought!

I was reading in another post that Rosta Roy and DonTesla gave advice in and this is what I came up with. I returned the FFOF soil today and picked up some peat moss, gypsum, fish meal and fish bone meal . So that is what I was going to do and I would like some input if I'm not doing it right. I'm putting Home compost, EWC, Leaf Compost, Fish Meal (couldn't get Crab Meal) Fish Bone Meal, Neem seed meal, Oyster Shell Flour ,Gypsum, Kelp Meal, Alfalfa Meal, Azomite, Greensand. I couldn't find Langbeinite so am a little worried about K but was thinking the Greensand could help but it takes so long to break down.

PS Rosta Rob: Say Yah to the U P
Thanks
JB

Wetdog said:

It's all about the *mesh size*, the actual fineness of the material. Oyster shell flour is about the consistency of baking flour. Oyster shell meal (like chicken scratch/grit), is much more coarse and is pretty much useless for pH/buffering purposes as it takes several years to have any effect. I do believe GMM uses it as a aeration additive, but ???

Pulverized dolomite lime is usually very cheap and available locally ($4.50/40lb bag), if the shipping on OSF is too much. I know it is for me and about all I use is dolomite.

There is no real substitute for neem cake and I bite the bullet on that. But, neem cake and kelp meal are pretty much the only 2 things I'll pay to ship. Everything else is sourced locally.

There are very few things that don't have a substitute or replacement, but kelp and neem really don't.

Click to expand...

Cool thanks for the reply Wetdog. Well I should have done more research before getting 50lbs of oyster meal. I'm gonna have to grind it up, that should be fun

I agree with you about the kelp, that stuff is magic. I gotta get my hands on some damn neem cake!

DonTesla said:

Pleasure is mine, amigo.

For no neem, no one product can replace it, so you want to try find a bit of a P source or tea as well as chitin source for auto-immune responses.. neem covers both beautifully and embarks a nice flavour boost too as does kelp, changes the terps a lot.
if you cant get a bug frass or mealworm frass you could use cricket frass from craigslist or even easier, make Lacto Bacillus serum. From there you could use the lacto to make some more complex defense solutions, all makable for free essentially.

Oyster shell meal will work, you just want to run it thru a nutribullet or garage sale blender to get er nice and finer. Wet is right about that.. unless you're soaking it, its gonna take a long time to release.. although if you up your mycelium fungus (sprinkle oat flour etc) and myco (at transplant best, if possible), those alone will help max your intake of the minerals and dusts.

For the paramagnetic source, if you cant get basalt or blue rock dust as its also known as, just cement dust will do, granted its free of any additives... usually at any Home Depot. If not, glacial will do. If you cant get glacial then up the lava rock, any landscaping yard should have Burgundy or black lava, if not, can make some biochar (See Don's Dirt in Organics section for videos of different DIY ways) or use some sand. Builders is better than river, better porosity, less rounded. Greensand would be be better. But if ALL that fails, then you can use a Tower Power (Plastic tube with Sand paper) at least, and the paragmagnetic & soil's forces will be amplified. the 5000+ lightning bolts around the globe will then start working for you around the clock.

Click to expand...

Hey Don, thanks for taking the time to respond man, very informative and motivating. I did a bit more reading on neem and I'll definitely have to try it out. You mention that it gives a nice flavor boost and changes the terps a lot. Could it be due to the limonoids present in neem? Could this Tetranortriterpenoid be related to my beloved Limonene terpene? Do you notice more of a pronounced lemon smell/taste when using neem?

Ok so for the chitin source, so far I have shrimp compost. I haven't been able to find shrimp, crab, or lobster meal locally so the closest thing I could find was shrimp compost. Probably not a great source of chitin as opposed to the meals. Does oyster shell contain chitin? Now you got me looking into crickets and meal worms... and considering the price I've seen frass sell for, I should probably start cricket farming! My wife is already tolerating my worm bin and when I told her about crickets, lol! My defense is that it's great food for the chickens, which we plan on having one day. As for the oyster shell meal, I'll blend that up to speed up the absorption rate. I haven't tried the oatmeal flour yet but I will next run. So far I got this to work with:

- Compost (nothing with pesticides, my garden veggies and organic produce scraps)
- Earth worm castings (they get extra goodies like kelp meal, glacial rock dust and aloe)
- Kelp meal from Nova Scotia
- Gaia Green alfalfa meal (I also sowed some alfalfa seeds in my garden last month so I plan to use that instead)
- Gaia Green glacial rock dust (I could also get azomite for the same price but I haven't compared them yet. What's your take?)
- Oyster shell meal

I make compost tea with my vermicompost and organic black strap molasses, sometimes I add a bit of kelp. I'll feed that every couple weeks. When flowering I'll splurge and buy a couple of coconuts, blend the juice with some fresh aloe and the ladies looooooove it! I'll be getting some malted barley powder eventually and I got a shit load of dandelions and stinging nettle in my backyard so I'll be trying some fermented plant extracts also.