Unconventional Organics

Discussion in 'Organics' started by malignant, Jul 12, 2012.

  1.  
    verny

    verny Well-Known Member

    guys,go easy on the pee,i shld know!,been there tried that.not a good idea.
     
  2.  
    Orphan Crippler

    Orphan Crippler Well-Known Member

    Im not sure why I just thought of this only now but whilst activating a 1L of em I thought why not buy some botanicare hydroguard and use that as a stock culture? BHG is just an isolated form of bacillus bacteria and surely it can be used to ferment molasses in the same fashion as em1?

    If this is the case then you could make 40L of Hydroguard for the price of 1L(ex molasses ect) at $22 on amazon + for me about another $40 in shipping and tax.
     
    DonBrennon likes this.
  3.  
    Orphan Crippler

    Orphan Crippler Well-Known Member

    It would be worth it for me to buy and ferment if this is possible.
     
  4.  
    DonBrennon

    DonBrennon Well-Known Member

    If you've already got EM1, why would you need hydroguard?

    If the hydroguard is just an isolated strain of bacillus, isn't EM1 a better direct replacement?

    I'm asking cos I've no experience of either and I'm about to buy some EM1
     
    calliandra and Orphan Crippler like this.
  5.  
    Orphan Crippler

    Orphan Crippler Well-Known Member

    If anyone is interested in trying this experiment that has the product in their possession it would be a massive help.

    for 1L and the recipe scales up or down easily enough.
    40ml em1 + 40ml black strap molasses + 920ml water to give dome breathing space in the 1L bottle for shaking ect.
    when pH of the solution drops to 3.8 or below and has rested at this pH for 5-7 days its ready for use.
    That's how simple it is to make activated em1 so it may be the same for Hydroguard.
     
  6.  
    Orphan Crippler

    Orphan Crippler Well-Known Member

    The strain in Hydroguard works very well in Deep Water Culture and does not produce a clear bacterial slime apparently but I know for sure that em in your rez will produce some slime which would not harm the roots but could potentially clog your pumps or lines.
     
    calliandra and DonBrennon like this.
  7.  
    Orphan Crippler

    Orphan Crippler Well-Known Member

    I use em in soil and coco and really like what it can do with composting but for direct hydroponic applications IT may be better especially if your days are hot.
     
  8.  
    iHearAll

    iHearAll Well-Known Member

    teraganix (specifically) EM1 is a blend of bacteria. when you extend a liter of EM1 you get around 30L of EMextended over the course of making it. EAch bottle of EMextended is a duplicate of the mother culture but if you tried to make EMextended-extended you'll end up with an isolated lactobacillus.

    you would need to go fishing for some purple sulfur bacteria, yeast, and i forget what else.

    If you're looking for a cheap alternative to EM but is more biodiverse, consider kombucha making.
     
    calliandra likes this.
  9.  
    Orphan Crippler

    Orphan Crippler Well-Known Member

    EM stock culture where I am from costs about $7 a Liter so its not the price of the product rather It would be nice to have bacillus Amyloliquefaciens specifically for hydroponic systems such as deep water culture or my choice the AutoPot XL.
    Organics can benefit mineral hydroponics through the safety net that the microbes give offsetting bad bacteria such as pythium by not allowing them an opportunity to establish themselves.
     
    calliandra likes this.
  10.  
    iHearAll

    iHearAll Well-Known Member

    EM would do the same function. by applying EM and molasses in equal parts you are colonizing a culture and starving out a pathogen. save money perform many tasks. we use this in aquaponics as well.
     
    calliandra likes this.
  11.  
    Orphan Crippler

    Orphan Crippler Well-Known Member

    The only problem I have found using EM1 in my hydroponic rez was that after about 4-5 days there would be a slime starting to develop around the tap inside on the thread. I would always get nervous at this and toss the rez and restart. this is an expensive procedure and thats why the bacillus Amyloliquefaciens apparently has the edge on EM1 in straight up hydro because it does according to the sales pitch and some user comments I have read produce any kind of slimy film in your rez.

    For soil and coco mix I will stick to a combo of EM1 and EWC tea as its just great but for Pure Hydro it would be nice to have this as an alternative to using chlorine to keep your roots healthy also there are some hydro grower friends of mine that could definitely benefit from this not to mention many people on this forum.

    I have taken this question to Grasscity and Thc talk to see what those guys have to say and will of course spread the word if there are any developments
     
    calliandra likes this.
  12.  
    iHearAll

    iHearAll Well-Known Member

    oh i see what you're saying. yea idk then. do you guys use em+molasses in your res or just the EM?
     
    calliandra likes this.
  13.  
    Orphan Crippler

    Orphan Crippler Well-Known Member

    just the em1 straight.
     
    calliandra likes this.
  14.  
    iHearAll

    iHearAll Well-Known Member

    i think the slim is a collection of dying bacteria. try using EM and molasses in equal parts. the EM will eat the molasses over the week or two you give it. they were probably starving previously. i think the aquaculture ratio of EM to water is 1:100-250... pretty broad..
     
  15.  
    Orphan Crippler

    Orphan Crippler Well-Known Member

    With hydro you would rather feed more microbes into the system as apposed to feeding the microbes with carbs in the system. If you add molasses directly to a system as an energy source for your bacteria in most cases problems arise and they can be irreversible the hydro slime threads are the stuff of nightmare.
     
    calliandra likes this.
  16.  
    Orphan Crippler

    Orphan Crippler Well-Known Member

    Those dosages are very high....
     
  17.  
    iHearAll

    iHearAll Well-Known Member

    right on^ ok yea that sounds like a pain in the ass
     
  18.  
    platt

    platt Well-Known Member

    nice^here we have a mainstream 4% (by weight) simple sugars liquid culture recipe. Thought it was a truly act of faith coming across this things on riu organic section^ ...but here we go!
    thats it then its all about reaching the ph in wich hydroguard bacteria thrives. ...or let it go & trust on their company isolates. Is this the week when we talk about piranha from ANutrients mommy? hahah

    not neccesarily dying bacteria` in most cases it could be described like a glued matrix with placental features.

    Also, in da lab, a slightly increase in the 4% carbs LC startpoint recipe normally means a tremendous slower growth rate
     
  19.  
    Orphan Crippler

    Orphan Crippler Well-Known Member

    Well considering that the only bacteria in hydroguard is Bacillus Amyloliquefaciens and no complex mixtures such as the above mentioned brand the concept is similar to brewing beer as you don't need complex equipment to make a yeast starter and a beer and have the same strain of yeast from start to finish.

    In fact Daughter at the end you will have so much of the same strain of yeast that you could potentially make 2x300 times more beer than when you started with a small packet of culture.

    now ask your self do large breweries keep buying more yeast from yeast companies or do they keep their own cultures? this is potentially exactly the same except with a isolated strain of bacteria.
     
  20.  
    platt

    platt Well-Known Member

    yeah same happens to grape batches collected 400km far away from each other. The prevalent yeast [into the barrel or with the addition of the proper isolates] will blend all that fruit into the correct terpene profile. looks easy!
     

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