using a tomato cage for scrog.

opiumfiend

opiumfiend

Active Member
So im about to harvest my first grow and to be honest i was disappointed with the yield. i did some training but the plants basically grew into a christmas tree shape. so next time around i have decided to go for a scrog. i have 4 white widows 1 blueberry and 4 afgooey clones. now rather then build a whole scrog net and frame i would like to individually scrog the plants for ease of access etc. so i was thinking of using a tomato cage with netting wrapped around it. is this a good idea? or will the plants not scrog outward and vertically in the same way they would scrog if they were growing up into a net? here's some pictures of the types of cages i was considering using. any advice would be great. i have never done a scrog before. thank you :)

08102155 (1).jpg tomato-cage-and-plant-(web).jpg
 
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schuylaar

Well-Known Member
short answer: no

you're taking on lots for being new..there is so much to coordinate..you have to scoot, then crawl, then cruise, then walk..baby steps

christmas tree shape? sativa..that's the way she grows.

your best bet truly and i'm not trying to insult is: keep it simple at first (KISS) not trying too many advanced technique straight-up..now there will be men who will disagree (i'm female). you will find here there are 100's of opinions many of them correct all approaching from different directions which are already in place with their set-up..so you need to pick and choose the info. i've been growing for 3 years..click on my blog.

so, to answer your question what i would do to "keep it simple" but "up" your yield..2000HPS for 9 plants is overkill straight-up..it's a waste of lumen..rule of thumb (ROT) 100watt/plant..i have 1000HPS and can run 15-18 4 footers but typically have 9..i started in soil and "graduated" to hydro..to mainline, LST or the myriad of names you can call it to optimize your growth and end up with a field of colas you really only need to bend her main cola in early veg and affix with soil staple (home depot) or zip strips or twisty tie..believe it or not just that ONE move is enough to distribute all that energy elsewhere in order to create colas!
 
P

Playin

Member
although I have not done this myself I have seen alot of other people using these tomato cages, and think they work well to help support the plant, as far as scroging with them I think the wire could become a pain to work around, for watering,trimming, etc. but as long as you have room to bring each plant out to work on individually it shouldn't be that big a deal. right now I use bamboo stakes in my pots for plant support. works great
 
opiumfiend

opiumfiend

Active Member
schuylaar said:
short answer: no

you're taking on lots for being new..there is so much to coordinate..you have to scoot, then crawl, then cruise, then walk..baby steps

christmas tree shape? sativa..that's the way she grows.

your best bet truly and i'm not trying to insult is: keep it simple at first (KISS) not trying too many advanced technique straight-up..now there will be men who will disagree (i'm female). you will find here there are 100's of opinions many of them correct all approaching from different directions which are already in place with their set-up..so you need to pick and choose the info. i've been growing for 3 years..click on my blog.

so, to answer your question what i would do to "keep it simple" but "up" your yield..2000HPS for 9 plants is overkill straight-up..it's a waste of lumen..rule of thumb (ROT) 100watt/plant..i have 1000HPS and can run 15-18 4 footers but typically have 9..i started in soil and "graduated" to hydro..to mainline, LST or the myriad of names you can call it to optimize your growth and end up with a field of colas you really only need to bend her main cola in early veg and affix with soil staple (home depot) or zip strips or twisty tie..believe it or not just that ONE move is enough to distribute all that energy elsewhere in order to create colas!
Click to expand...
thanks for the lengthy response :) heat has been a real issue for me, iv been sitting at anywhere from 27-31 degrees. i have poor ventilation and extraction. so maybe that was a significant factor in my reduced yeild. i did HST one of my plants with good results but could have been done better to optimize results. here's some photos of that plant
IMG_20150117_022146.jpgIMG_20150117_021642.jpg IMG_20150117_021634.jpg IMG_20150117_021536.jpg

the photo's are crap sorry. i was pretty happy with the result. i got 3-4 main colas and the plant stayed short and squat. you say 2200 watts is over kill but my plants where about 3-4 foot and i couldn't really get enough of a foot print with just 1200 watts. but i will take what you said into consideration. thank you. i will be using coco again. i am dipping my toes into hydro with a dwc bucket and a auto freebie.
 
opiumfiend

opiumfiend

Active Member
Playin said:
although I have not done this myself I have seen alot of other people using these tomato cages, and think they work well to help support the plant, as far as scroging with them I think the wire could become a pain to work around, for watering,trimming, etc. but as long as you have room to bring each plant out to work on individually it shouldn't be that big a deal. right now I use bamboo stakes in my pots for plant support. works great
Click to expand...
i am also using bamboo stakes to get those buds out from the shade.
 
S

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
Playin said:
although I have not done this myself I have seen alot of other people using these tomato cages, and think they work well to help support the plant, as far as scroging with them I think the wire could become a pain to work around, for watering,trimming, etc. but as long as you have room to bring each plant out to work on individually it shouldn't be that big a deal. right now I use bamboo stakes in my pots for plant support. works great
Click to expand...
there's a plant stand the depot carries arms and one main support circle with scrog netting (in wire) built in..don't know if they still carry.

good luck!
 
S

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
opiumfiend said:
thanks for the lengthy response :) heat has been a real issue for me, iv been sitting at anywhere from 27-31 degrees. i have poor ventilation and extraction. so maybe that was a significant factor in my reduced yeild. i did HST one of my plants with good results but could have been done better to optimize results. here's some photos of that plant
View attachment 3332688View attachment 3332689 View attachment 3332690 View attachment 3332691

the photo's are crap sorry. i was pretty happy with the result. i got 3-4 main colas and the plant stayed short and squat. you say 2200 watts is over kill but my plants where about 3-4 foot and i couldn't really get enough of a foot print with just 1200 watts. but i will take what you said into consideration. thank you. i will be using coco again. i am dipping my toes into hydro with a dwc bucket and a auto freebie.
Click to expand...
you like short responses?:grin:

Q: so, you're heating your home with 2000HPS? i know it's cold outside, but doesn't your home heat work?
 
opiumfiend

opiumfiend

Active Member
no, i wasn't been sarcastic lol. thanks for the informative response would be a better use of words.
well my grow room is off my bedroom so do i leave the door open to heat up my room lol.
 
BAMS

BAMS

Well-Known Member
schuylaar is absolutely right on saying that your jumping into an advanced technique, its a style of verticle growing, but growing on cylinder cages is wasted light, you are better off doing vertical panels and place a light between 2 panels, or making a larger mesh cyinder and dropping a light down the middle and running your plants around the outside and all the buds grow towards the middle. Again its a lot more complex than that, but that is a general idea of it....but bottom line it does work, and is efficient if you set it up properly, but get your basics down to a tee and then venture into vertical grows
 
opiumfiend

opiumfiend

Active Member
another contributing factor to my reduced yeild was to small pots. the strectch took me by surprise i didn't expect them to grow from 30-40 cm to 1.2 to 1.3 meters tall haha. i had 16.9 litre pots. but wasn't enough.
 
opiumfiend

opiumfiend

Active Member
BAMS said:
schuylaar is absolutely right on saying that your jumping into an advanced technique, its a style of verticle growing, but growing on cylinder cages is wasted light, you are better off doing vertical panels and place a light between 2 panels, or making a larger mesh cyinder and dropping a light down the middle and running your plants around the outside and all the buds grow towards the middle. Again its a lot more complex than that, but that is a general idea of it....but bottom line it does work, and is efficient if you set it up properly, but get your basics down to a tee and then venture into vertical grows
Click to expand...
yea that was my concern. is that using cages is more vertical then scrog and isn't a very good vertical method. im not keen to go doing vert yet. although down the track i would like to :)
 
S

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
BAMS said:
schuylaar is absolutely right on saying that your jumping into an advanced technique, its a style of verticle growing, but growing on cylinder cages is wasted light, you are better off doing vertical panels and place a light between 2 panels, or making a larger mesh cyinder and dropping a light down the middle and running your plants around the outside and all the buds grow towards the middle. Again its a lot more complex than that, but that is a general idea of it....but bottom line it does work, and is efficient if you set it up properly, but get your basics down to a tee and then venture into vertical grows
Click to expand...
+rep

:clap:
 
P

Playin

Member
opiumfiend said:
another contributing factor to my reduced yeild was to small pots. the strectch took me by surprise i didn't expect them to grow from 30-40 cm to 1.2 to 1.3 meters tall haha. i had 16.9 litre pots. but wasn't enough.
Click to expand...
bigger pots definately contribute to bigger end yeild, I am finishing up 2 plants now that are in 10 gallon pots, veggged for 3 months before flipping to flower, did this only because I didn't want nice stinky flowers blooming in the house when family came to visit over the holidays,lol.
 
GroErr

GroErr

Well-Known Member
I use bamboo trellises instead of cages, 2 per pot. They have 2 "feet" and can be inserted into the edge of any pot including fabric (which I use). The advantage is essentially giving you the benefits of scrog without the restrictions. You can move/shift individual plants around your footprint as needed, easy to access them for watering etc.. I buy these below at the dollar store, think they were 3 for $2.50 or something. They're great for shaping the canopy, opening them up in the center and provide support for the colas as it gets late into flowering.

These are the one's I'm referring to:
DollarStore-Trellises.jpg

This is what they look/work like:
Before stretching:
All-Day47-Day3-3.JPG

After stretching:
All-Day13-Day2-2.JPG

Late flowering:
5gal-3x3-2.JPG
 
WeedFreak78

WeedFreak78

Well-Known Member
I've used those tomato supports before, on outdoor plants. I just kept topping it, tying it down and wrapping it around. What should have been a 7'+ sativa ended up being a 4' tall 3' wide bush with colas sticking out everywhere. II think they'd work great if you hung a few 600's vert and turned the plants on a daily basis. But a purpose built scrog would be better
 
BustinScales510

BustinScales510

Well-Known Member
You can use a tomato cage to scrog. There are firm screens of wire mesh that you can buy at home depot,they come in like 8x4 sheets. You cut them to size and then fasten them to the tops of the tomato cages (flat) with zip ties (before the plants reach the top of the cage).

For scrogging that way its usually best to cut the tomato cages shorter so it doesnt take as long for the plants to reach the top, cause you wanna start tying them down to fill out the screen as early as possible.

 
alcohol

alcohol

Active Member
schuylaar said:
you like short responses?:grin:

Q: so, you're heating your home with 2000HPS? i know it's cold outside, but doesn't your home heat work?
Click to expand...
Heat = waste product from HPS lights. Already paid for. Need to get rid of.
Heating oil= commodity purchased during winter to produce heat. Costs a lot.

Why not kill two birds with one stone and be an efficient little grower?
 
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