veg+bloom constant mag deficiency
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im4satori
Well-Known Member
here is a full strength bloom formula using the Gh3part and calmag
these are some great numbers and could be used as is from the start of bloom until completion with no changes in mixing
all the micro elements are spot on and the macro nutes are all in range
the sulfur is low and the P is on the lower end and calcium is in range... no extra un-needed stuff
as a matter of fact the sulfur is so low you could even use sulfuric acid (battery acid) instead of phosphoric acid to ph adjust
you can buy a pint of battery acid from the auto parts store for $10
cut it with water in a 1 gallon container and itll still be stronger than the phosphuirc acid and a hole lot cheaper
although id never suggest using sulfuric acid in your vegbloom nutes since theyre already over loaded with sulfur
and the K:Ca:mg ratios are somewhere between 4:2:1 and 3:2:1
3:2:1 ratio is starting in veg and as you get into flower you can lean toward the 4;2;1 ratio until your plants speak to you to tell you where they are happy
but if your plants aren't at a close range already what they say might sound like Chinese to you
notice the N is 90ppm and the active elements are only 392ppm.. that's maybe 0.8EC
if you where feeding this and still showing signs of def then I would say raise your EC up to 1.1 or 1.2 max which is about 430ppm active element
polishpollack
Well-Known Member
I have my opinion as to what the issue here is, but I'm going to sit back and watch. please come back and post more here with more pics as time goes on. I need to see what you do and its effect on your plants. satori has taught a lot about the chemical components, however I don't know if this is the problem. I suspect it is something else.
do you have any links that can further get into detail about the first quote so i can learn about the elements ratio/relationship together? it should also be noted i use hydroguard and have fungus gnats(i stay on top of them, ill see one once in a while) and i use vegbloom because its 1 part nute and ive tried the maxi series and vegbloom is better. i get too high to worry about mixing formulas lplus if it works for everyone else then theres no reason it shouldnt work for me, running from nute to nute isnt going to get me anywhere
so what do you think it is maybe its something i havent thought about
polishpollack
Well-Known Member
I made mention in an earlier post what I think it is. I suspect there's a distinct reason for your issues that has nothing to do with cal or mag or Sulphur. I wasn't specific but there is an aspect to what you're doing that is unique as you are using two different methods. (There, I mentioned it again).
im4satori
Well-Known Member
A unique feature of the active system of ion absorption by plant roots is
that it exhibits ion competition, antagonism, and synergism. The competitive
effects restrict the absorption of some ions in favor of others. Examples of
enhanced uptake relationships include:
Potassium (K+) uptake is favored over calcium (Ca2+) and magnesium (Mg2+)
uptake.
Chloride (Cl–), sulfate (SO4
2–), and phosphate (H2PO4
–) uptake is stimulated
when nitrate (NO3
–) uptake is strongly depressed.
The rate of absorption is also different for various ions. The monovalent
ions (i.e., K+, Cl–, NO3
-) are more readily absorbed by roots than the divalent
(Ca2+, Mg2+, SO4
2–) ions are.
The uptake of certain ions is also enhanced in active uptake. If the NO3
–
anion is the major N source in the surrounding rooting environment, then
there tends to be a balancing effect marked by greater intake of the cations
K+, Ca2+, and Mg2+. If the NH4
+ cation is the major source of N, then uptake
of the cations K+, Ca2+, and Mg2+ is reduced. In addition, the presence of NH4
+
enhances NO3
– uptake. If Cl– ions are present in sizable concentrations, NO3
–
uptake is reduced.
These effects of ion competition, antagonism, and synergism are of considerable
importance to the hydroponic grower in order to avoid the hazard
of creating elemental imbalances in the nutrient solution that will, in turn,
affect plant growth and development. Therefore, the nutrient solution must
be properly and carefully balanced initially and then kept in balance during
its term of use. Imbalances arising from these ion effects will affect plant
growth. Steiner (1980) has discussed in considerable detail his concepts of
ion balance when constituting a nutrient solution. His concept is presented
in Chapter 7.
Unfortunately, many current systems of nutrient solution management do
not effectively deal with the problem of imbalance. This is true not only of
24 Hydroponics: A Practical Guide for the Soilless Grower
systems in which the nutrient solution is managed on the basis of weekly
dumping and reconstitution but also of constant-flow systems. Indeed, the
concept of rapid, constant-flow, low-concentration nutrient solution management
is made to look deceptively promising in minimizing the interacting
effects of ions in the nutrient solution on absorption and plant nutrition (more
about these problems in Chapter 7).
Finally, nonionic substances, mainly molecules dissolved in the soil water,
can also be taken into the root by mass flow. Substances such as amino acids,
simple proteins, carbohydrates, and urea can easily enter the plant and
contribute to its growth and development.
Metabolic transport across root structures to the xylem regulates the amount
of ions conveyed to the tops; interestingly, the amount is little affected by the
velocity of xylem sap flow. Once in the xylem, ions and other soluble solutes
move by mass flow, primarily to the leaf apoplast.
that it exhibits ion competition, antagonism, and synergism. The competitive
effects restrict the absorption of some ions in favor of others. Examples of
enhanced uptake relationships include:
Potassium (K+) uptake is favored over calcium (Ca2+) and magnesium (Mg2+)
uptake.
Chloride (Cl–), sulfate (SO4
2–), and phosphate (H2PO4
–) uptake is stimulated
when nitrate (NO3
–) uptake is strongly depressed.
The rate of absorption is also different for various ions. The monovalent
ions (i.e., K+, Cl–, NO3
-) are more readily absorbed by roots than the divalent
(Ca2+, Mg2+, SO4
2–) ions are.
The uptake of certain ions is also enhanced in active uptake. If the NO3
–
anion is the major N source in the surrounding rooting environment, then
there tends to be a balancing effect marked by greater intake of the cations
K+, Ca2+, and Mg2+. If the NH4
+ cation is the major source of N, then uptake
of the cations K+, Ca2+, and Mg2+ is reduced. In addition, the presence of NH4
+
enhances NO3
– uptake. If Cl– ions are present in sizable concentrations, NO3
–
uptake is reduced.
These effects of ion competition, antagonism, and synergism are of considerable
importance to the hydroponic grower in order to avoid the hazard
of creating elemental imbalances in the nutrient solution that will, in turn,
affect plant growth and development. Therefore, the nutrient solution must
be properly and carefully balanced initially and then kept in balance during
its term of use. Imbalances arising from these ion effects will affect plant
growth. Steiner (1980) has discussed in considerable detail his concepts of
ion balance when constituting a nutrient solution. His concept is presented
in Chapter 7.
Unfortunately, many current systems of nutrient solution management do
not effectively deal with the problem of imbalance. This is true not only of
24 Hydroponics: A Practical Guide for the Soilless Grower
systems in which the nutrient solution is managed on the basis of weekly
dumping and reconstitution but also of constant-flow systems. Indeed, the
concept of rapid, constant-flow, low-concentration nutrient solution management
is made to look deceptively promising in minimizing the interacting
effects of ions in the nutrient solution on absorption and plant nutrition (more
about these problems in Chapter 7).
Finally, nonionic substances, mainly molecules dissolved in the soil water,
can also be taken into the root by mass flow. Substances such as amino acids,
simple proteins, carbohydrates, and urea can easily enter the plant and
contribute to its growth and development.
Metabolic transport across root structures to the xylem regulates the amount
of ions conveyed to the tops; interestingly, the amount is little affected by the
velocity of xylem sap flow. Once in the xylem, ions and other soluble solutes
move by mass flow, primarily to the leaf apoplast.
im4satori
Well-Known Member
Probably no aspect of hydroponic/soilless growing is as misunderstood as the
constitution and use of nutrient solutions. Most texts simply provide the reader
with a list of nutrient solution formulas, preferred reagent sources, and the
necessary weights and measures. Although such information is essential to
properly prepare the nutrient solution, a soundly based understanding of its
management is as important, if not more so, for successful growing. The
complex interrelationships between composition and use are not understood
by many growers, and it is this aspect of nutrient solution management for
which much of the literature unfortunately provides little or no help. In an
article about a new growing machine for lettuce and herb production, called
“The Omagagarden Machine,” the developers of the machine stated that “the
hardest part is getting the plant food right and knowing how much to feed”
(Simon, 2004b). This same thought can be echoed by many who have struggled
with the selection and use of the many nutrient solution formulations found
in the hydroponic literature.
Poor yields, scraggly plants, high water and reagent costs, indeed most of
the hallmarks of a less than fully successful growing operation can be directly
linked to faulty formulations and the mismanagement of the nutrient solution.
constitution and use of nutrient solutions. Most texts simply provide the reader
with a list of nutrient solution formulas, preferred reagent sources, and the
necessary weights and measures. Although such information is essential to
properly prepare the nutrient solution, a soundly based understanding of its
management is as important, if not more so, for successful growing. The
complex interrelationships between composition and use are not understood
by many growers, and it is this aspect of nutrient solution management for
which much of the literature unfortunately provides little or no help. In an
article about a new growing machine for lettuce and herb production, called
“The Omagagarden Machine,” the developers of the machine stated that “the
hardest part is getting the plant food right and knowing how much to feed”
(Simon, 2004b). This same thought can be echoed by many who have struggled
with the selection and use of the many nutrient solution formulations found
in the hydroponic literature.
Poor yields, scraggly plants, high water and reagent costs, indeed most of
the hallmarks of a less than fully successful growing operation can be directly
linked to faulty formulations and the mismanagement of the nutrient solution.
whitebb2727
Well-Known Member
If you want a good one part get some Dynagro foliage pro.
It is geared for cannabis. Its 9-3-6. Has all micros too.
N is important in flower.
It is geared for cannabis. Its 9-3-6. Has all micros too.
N is important in flower.
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im4satori
Well-Known Member
In hard-water areas, there may be sufficient Ca and Mg in the water to
provide a portion or all of the plant requirements. In addition, the micronutrient
element concentration could be sufficient to preclude the need to add this
group of elements to the nutrient solution. These determinations should be
made only on the basis of an elemental analysis of the water (see pages 314).
provide a portion or all of the plant requirements. In addition, the micronutrient
element concentration could be sufficient to preclude the need to add this
group of elements to the nutrient solution. These determinations should be
made only on the basis of an elemental analysis of the water (see pages 314).
whitebb2727
Well-Known Member
I love some Epsom. I got cal/mag but find myself reaching for Epsom if needed. In my experience Epsom corrects mag deficiencies in cannabis fairly quickly.
im4satori
Well-Known Member
Steiner’s (1980) thesis depends upon the assumption that plants can adjust
to ratios of cations and anions that are not typical of their normal uptake
characteristics, but that plants will expend much less energy if the ions of the
essential elements are in proper balance as given above. Steiner’s thesis
explains, in part, why many growers have successfully grown plants using
Hoagland-type nutrient solution formulations, as plants are apparently able to
adjust to the composition of the nutrient solution even when the ratios of
ions are not within the range required for best growth.
to ratios of cations and anions that are not typical of their normal uptake
characteristics, but that plants will expend much less energy if the ions of the
essential elements are in proper balance as given above. Steiner’s thesis
explains, in part, why many growers have successfully grown plants using
Hoagland-type nutrient solution formulations, as plants are apparently able to
adjust to the composition of the nutrient solution even when the ratios of
ions are not within the range required for best growth.
Chunky Stool
Well-Known Member
^^^ What he said. Good product and relatively inexpensive. I recently gave a tiny dose to some seedlings in rockwool & they loved it.
whitebb2727
Well-Known Member
That needs nitrogen. People worry about P and K in flower but N is just as important.
Slight mag problem with N deficiency.
The brand you are using isn't suited for cannabis. It will work but as you see with problems.
im4satori
Well-Known Member
for “optimum production of disease-free greenhouse tomatoes, cucumbers,
and other crops:”
Using a properly balanced nutrient solution in the rooting zone
Adjusting the pH to an optimum range favorable for plant use
Having no ions present in toxic amounts or at levels that may interfere
with other ions
and other crops:”
Using a properly balanced nutrient solution in the rooting zone
Adjusting the pH to an optimum range favorable for plant use
Having no ions present in toxic amounts or at levels that may interfere
with other ions
whitebb2727
Well-Known Member
On dynagro website you can get a sample pack for less than 20 bucks.
It comes with a quart each of foilage pro and protekt.
A pint each of bloom, mag pro and rooting concentrate.
You can't beat the price.
im4satori
Well-Known Member
A common procedure is to continuously monitor the pH of a nutrient
solution when being dispensed and inject either acid or alkali as required into
the flowing stream of nutrient solution. Solutions of either sodium or potassium
hydroxide (NaOH and KOH, respectively) are suitable alkalis for raising the
pH. Ammonium hydroxide (NH4OH) can also be used; however, it is more
difficult to handle safely, and the addition of the NH4
+ ion to the nutrient
solution may not be desirable. Nitric (HNO3), sulfuric (H2SO4), and hydrochloric
(HCl) acids can be used for lowering the pH. An advantage or disadvantage
for the use of HNO3 would be the addition of the NO3
– anion. Phosphoric
acid (H3PO4) can also be used, but its use would add P, which might not be
desirable.
solution when being dispensed and inject either acid or alkali as required into
the flowing stream of nutrient solution. Solutions of either sodium or potassium
hydroxide (NaOH and KOH, respectively) are suitable alkalis for raising the
pH. Ammonium hydroxide (NH4OH) can also be used; however, it is more
difficult to handle safely, and the addition of the NH4
+ ion to the nutrient
solution may not be desirable. Nitric (HNO3), sulfuric (H2SO4), and hydrochloric
(HCl) acids can be used for lowering the pH. An advantage or disadvantage
for the use of HNO3 would be the addition of the NO3
– anion. Phosphoric
acid (H3PO4) can also be used, but its use would add P, which might not be
desirable.
whitebb2727
Well-Known Member
http://www.dyna-gro.com/contact.htm
Just contact them and they will hook you up.
Rxgreensolutions is a sponsor here and sent me a quart each of the grow A and B, bloom A and B, and some pint bottles of boosters. Oh and some powder stuff for roots. Free of charge.
Just contact them and they will hook you up.
Rxgreensolutions is a sponsor here and sent me a quart each of the grow A and B, bloom A and B, and some pint bottles of boosters. Oh and some powder stuff for roots. Free of charge.
a mongo frog
Well-Known Member
Have you ever added epsom with a bottled base nutrient? Like add ones A&B and then add epsom?