Very Acidic compost Tea

DankTankerous

DankTankerous

Well-Known Member
I fill up a 5gal bucket with 4gal of water and run the airstones for an hour to remove the chlorine. I use a nylon sock and with it i put about 4 cups of compost, a couple table spoons of yerba mate, 2 tablespoons of Organic Blackstrap Molasses, 2 tablespoons of seaweed fertilizer, and 2 tablespoons of fish hydrosolate. after a day it's up to 4.0 on the ph scale. Even when i don't use tea but all of those fertilizers along with Fish emulsion, it's usually very acidic as well. are fertilizers usually acidic, or that acidic? am I doing something wrong with my Tea's?
 
greasemonkeymann

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
DankTankerous said:
I fill up a 5gal bucket with 4gal of water and run the airstones for an hour to remove the chlorine. I use a nylon sock and with it i put about 4 cups of compost, a couple table spoons of yerba mate, 2 tablespoons of Organic Blackstrap Molasses, 2 tablespoons of seaweed fertilizer, and 2 tablespoons of fish hydrosolate. after a day it's up to 4.0 on the ph scale. Even when i don't use tea but all of those fertilizers along with Fish emulsion, it's usually very acidic as well. are fertilizers usually acidic, or that acidic? am I doing something wrong with my Tea's?
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most organic nutrients are naturally acidic, however the fish-hydrolysate process is cold, which means the end-product can putrefy more rapidly and requires more acid for pH stabilization, furthermore, and shittily enough, fish hydrolysate manufacturers add more phosphoric acid than needed just to increase the macro rating (higher phosphorus) rather than decreasing the pH to stabilize it
another thing to mention, are you brewing teas for the microbial content or the nutrients?
 
iHearAll

iHearAll

Well-Known Member
Add lime... Not gypsum.. Add a little check your ph add a little more check ph etc. Happens to me all the time but definitely fix it fo sure. Ph problems can certainly arise in a poorly ammended organic grow


Ediy: use a sock for the lime
 
Nugachino

Nugachino

Well-Known Member
I'm using bokashi and a fish+kelp emulsion to feed. That's fairly acidic. But, my water and soil are highly alkaline. Usually a feed pH'd to about 6 will come out 7-7.5 in run off.
 
DankTankerous

DankTankerous

Well-Known Member
greasemonkeymann said:
most organic nutrients are naturally acidic, however the fish-hydrolysate process is cold, which means the end-product can putrefy more rapidly and requires more acid for pH stabilization, furthermore, and shittily enough, fish hydrolysate manufacturers add more phosphoric acid than needed just to increase the macro rating (higher phosphorus) rather than decreasing the pH to stabilize it
another thing to mention, are you brewing teas for the microbial content or the nutrients?
Click to expand...
I am brewing them for both microbial and nutrients, however the amount of Fish emulsion and Kelp is lower than what's recommended in a feeding.
 
DankTankerous

DankTankerous

Well-Known Member
Also, if the fertilizers that i'm using are acidic wouldn't I have to Ph up because the roots can't uptake the nutrients if it's not the right ph?
 
shadow_moose

shadow_moose

Well-Known Member
DankTankerous said:
Also, if the fertilizers that i'm using are acidic wouldn't I have to Ph up because the roots can't uptake the nutrients if it's not the right ph?
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No, do you know what a pH buffer is? A buffer stabilizes H+ concentration. Microbes in your soil (humates, bacteria, fungi) all contribute to the buffering effect it has. They live and adjust pH such that they can survive in their own environment. It just so happens to work out, these little creatures, combined with inorganic buffers like lime, keep the soil and any water trapped in it at the correct pH for nutrient absorption.

You do not need to use chemical pH adjusters with soil, you do not need to measure your pH. If your soil is halfway decent, and you're feeding compost teas, there is no way any issues you have are a result of pH, essentially.
 
DankTankerous

DankTankerous

Well-Known Member
shadow_moose said:
No, do you know what a pH buffer is? A buffer stabilizes H+ concentration. Microbes in your soil (humates, bacteria, fungi) all contribute to the buffering effect it has. They live and adjust pH such that they can survive in their own environment. It just so happens to work out, these little creatures, combined with inorganic buffers like lime, keep the soil and any water trapped in it at the correct pH for nutrient absorption.

You do not need to use chemical pH adjusters with soil, you do not need to measure your pH. If your soil is halfway decent, and you're feeding compost teas, there is no way any issues you have are a result of pH, essentially.
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so I don't need Ph up or down? yeah the soil is great, I haven't been ph'ing the Tea either. Also, do i need to dilute the tea? I have read where it's ok to just pour directly and not dilute
 
Rasta Roy

Rasta Roy

Well-Known Member
DankTankerous said:
so I don't need Ph up or down? yeah the soil is great, I haven't been ph'ing the Tea either. Also, do i need to dilute the tea? I have read where it's ok to just pour directly and not dilute
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Yeah don't dilute. Guano teas are the only thing I'd dilute. And yeah dude when you grow in soil you dont want to use pH up or down. You just want to make sure your soil is properly buffered.

Dolomite lime and oyster shell flour are both popular for mixing in your soil and ensuring your ph is good to go.
 
DankTankerous

DankTankerous

Well-Known Member
Rasta Roy said:
Yeah don't dilute. Guano teas are the only thing I'd dilute. And yeah dude when you grow in soil you dont want to use pH up or down. You just want to make sure your soil is properly buffered.

Dolomite lime and oyster shell flour are both popular for mixing in your soil and ensuring your ph is good to go.
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That's good news because I was using a fuck ton of ph up.

As far as soil buffers, what about using Azomite? Can i use it along with Dolomite lime?
 
calliandra

calliandra

Well-Known Member
DankTankerous said:
I fill up a 5gal bucket with 4gal of water and run the airstones for an hour to remove the chlorine. I use a nylon sock and with it i put about 4 cups of compost, a couple table spoons of yerba mate, 2 tablespoons of Organic Blackstrap Molasses, 2 tablespoons of seaweed fertilizer, and 2 tablespoons of fish hydrosolate. after a day it's up to 4.0 on the ph scale. Even when i don't use tea but all of those fertilizers along with Fish emulsion, it's usually very acidic as well. are fertilizers usually acidic, or that acidic? am I doing something wrong with my Tea's?
Click to expand...
How much airflow do you have in your brewer? (you need at least 0,08 CFM to achieve the minimum 6PPM odf dissolved oxygen to stay aerobic - see Tim Wilson, http://www.microbeorganics.com)
And how does your tea smell when it'S acidic like that?
(assuming you don't have a microscope and can't check the microherd for anaerobic critters, which would tell you the most about whats going on there)

My hunch is you're either adding too much food, don't have enough dissolved oxygen in there, or both.

DankTankerous said:
I am brewing them for both microbial and nutrients, however the amount of Fish emulsion and Kelp is lower than what's recommended in a feeding.
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What recipe, from whom?

Wanting to brew a combined microbial / nutrient tea is like rolling a boulder up a hill. The microbes will feast on the nutrients, eating them up whilst exploding in armageddon style and unbalancing the tea.
So you get, not the best of both worlds in one go, but the opposite.

AACT is brewed with compost and molasses (more bacterial) or fish hydrolysate (helps with fungi), full stop. Surely you can experiment mixing.
But in 4 gallons water you don't want more than 4 Tbsp total in there.

Mix up your kelp and other nutrient teas on the side!
 
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DankTankerous

DankTankerous

Well-Known Member
calliandra said:
How much airflow do you have in your brewer? (you need at least 0,08 CFM to achieve the minimum 6PPM odf dissolved oxygen to stay aerobic - see Tim Wilson, http://www.microbeorganics.com)
And how does your tea smell when it'S acidic like that?
(assuming you don't have a microscope and can't check the microherd for anaerobic critters, which would tell you the most about whats going on there)

My hunch is you're either adding too much food, don't have enough dissolved oxygen in there, or both.


What recipe, from whom?

Wanting to brew a combined microbial / nutrient tea is like rolling a boulder up a hill. The microbes will feast on the nutrients, eating them up whilst exploding in armageddon style and unbalancing the tea.
So you get, not the best of both worlds in one go, but the opposite.

AACT is brewed with compost and molasses (more bacterial) or fish hydrolysate (helps with fungi), full stop. Surely you can experiment mixing.
But in 4 gallons water you don't want more than 4 Tbsp total in there.

Mix up your kelp and other nutrient teas on the side!
Click to expand...
the Air pump has 2 airstones and is a Whisper 30-60. here's the link

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Tetra-Whisper-Air-Pump-30-60-Fish-Aquatic-Pets/10313014

i have no recipe. Always up for suggestions
 
calliandra

calliandra

Well-Known Member
DankTankerous said:
Also, if the fertilizers that i'm using are acidic wouldn't I have to Ph up because the roots can't uptake the nutrients if it's not the right ph?
Click to expand...
You sound like you have a chemical past :D
Meaning you're facing the challenge of letting go and trusting the microbes will sort their pH to the acidity they need. Fun stuff! :mrgreen:
Did you know that in a root ball, you will find the whole range of pH? Tiny pockets of pH6, pH 9, pH11, all over the place, varying according to whatever nutrients they're cycling in that moment, in that area.... it's amazing!
DankTankerous said:
the Air pump has 2 airstones and is a Whisper 30-60. here's the link

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Tetra-Whisper-Air-Pump-30-60-Fish-Aquatic-Pets/10313014

i have no recipe. Always up for suggestions
Click to expand...
Ah OK, no air flow numbers there, but I found them here: http://www.tetra-fish.com/Products/aquarium-air-pumps/whisper-air-pumps.aspx

So the airflow of your pump is "2.6 L/min ("T"-ed)" - I assume they mean "using both airstones" when they say T-ed, which you are.

Minimum airflow: 0.08 CFM = 2.26L/min
and you need that for every gallon of water to get the minimum dissolved oxygen of 6ppm in there to keep the tea aerobic.

So divide your airflow of 2.6L/min by 4 gallons and you have an actual airflow of 0,65L/min per gallon.
Way below what you need.

Or do it the other way around:
- with an airflow of 2.6L/min you can aerate 1.15 gallons of tea effectively.
- to aerate 4 gallons you would need a pump that has an airflow of at least 9L/min (or 0.32 CFM).

To test whether this is indeed the problem, you could try making that amount of AACT (1.15 gallons) with accordingly reduced additions.
Actually, Tim Wilson formulated the amounts in % to make them easy to calculate: the compost should be around 2,38% of the water volume, the molasses/fish hydrolysate should be at ~0,5% of the mix.

So for 1.15 gallons that would be like half a cup of compost with 1.4 tablespoons of food.
 
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DankTankerous

DankTankerous

Well-Known Member
calliandra said:
You sound like you have a chemical past :D
Meaning you're facing the challenge of letting go and trusting the microbes will sort their pH to the acidity they need. Fun stuff! :mrgreen:
Did you know that in a root ball, you will find the whole range of pH? Tiny pockets of pH6, pH 9, pH11, all over the place, varying according to whatever nutrients they're cycling in that moment, in that area.... it's amazing!

Ah OK, no air flow numbers there, but I found them here: http://www.tetra-fish.com/Products/aquarium-air-pumps/whisper-air-pumps.aspx

So the airflow of your pump is "2.6 L/min ("T"-ed)" - I assume they mean "using both airstones" when they say T-ed, which you are.

Minimum airflow: 0.08 CFM = 2.26L/min
and you need that for every gallon of water to get the minimum dissolved oxygen of 6ppm in there to keep the tea aerobic.

So divide your airflow of 2.6L/min by 4 gallons and you have an actual airflow of 0,65L/min per gallon.
Way below what you need.

Or do it the other way around:
- with an airflow of 2.6L/min you can aerate 1.15 gallons of tea effectively.
- to aerate 4 gallons you would need a pump that has an airflow of at least 9L/min (or 0.32 CFM).

To test whether this is indeed the problem, you could try making that amount of AACT (1.15 gallons) with accordingly reduced additions.
Actually, Tim Wilson formulated the amounts in % to make them easy to calculate: the compost should be around 2,38% of the water volume, the molasses/fish hydrolysate should be at ~0,5% of the mix.

So for 1.15 gallons that would be like half a cup of compost with 1.4 tablespoons of food.
Click to expand...
Ah got it. Yeah it is not bubbling up at all. Do you have a specific air pump you recommend?
 
calliandra

calliandra

Well-Known Member
DankTankerous said:
Ah got it. Yeah it is not bubbling up at all. Do you have a specific air pump you recommend?
Click to expand...
Nope, I'm looking too. Powerful but whispersilent is what I want lmao - not going to happen I fear.
So for now, I indulge in fantasies of aerated but soundproofed cabinets where the tea can bubble without being an earache :mrgreen:

I'd almost go so far as to say it doesn't matter which pump specifically (though there are recommendations out there - the Tim Wilson page I posted in an earlier post is a place to start looking at the specifics if you want to delve further).
The essential to get right is the airflow to water ratio, then any pump will do the job.
As I bet yours will.
Really interested to know whether the PH will be different with that ratio set straight! :bigjoint:
 
DankTankerous

DankTankerous

Well-Known Member
calliandra said:
Nope, I'm looking too. Powerful but whispersilent is what I want lmao - not going to happen I fear.
So for now, I indulge in fantasies of aerated but soundproofed cabinets where the tea can bubble without being an earache :mrgreen:

I'd almost go so far as to say it doesn't matter which pump specifically (though there are recommendations out there - the Tim Wilson page I posted in an earlier post is a place to start looking at the specifics if you want to delve further).
The essential to get right is the airflow to water ratio, then any pump will do the job.
As I bet yours will.
Really interested to know whether the PH will be different with that ratio set straight! :bigjoint:
Click to expand...
For sure I will let you know. Thank you for all the info. I never was or have been a fan of math but since I need to graduate with a few credits in math I better get reacquainted with it.

As far as the amount of tea- 1gal that's actually what I need for the plants.

I'm guessing temperatures will also play a role in microbial growth? I have the tea in my garage but the temps are dropping where I'm at
 
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