Vote NO on prop 19... (great read for anyone that will be voting in november in cali)

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Prop 215 and Prop 36 were both voter statewide voter initiatives. And from those plenty happened. "I commend your work, but it didn't do anything" is pretty insulting, frankly. The very fact that you get a misdemeanor instead of a felony conviction was massive progress. The progress of SB 1449 will be even better once passed into law. But, of course, according to your limited view nothing has happened.
I do realize that props 215, 36 and 19 are statewide initiatives and that was my point. Lobbying locally is great and commendable but until a majority statewide say yes not much happens.
How far do you think SB 1449 would get if 36 hadn't passed?
 

TokinPodPilot

Well-Known Member
I do realize that props 215, 36 and 19 are statewide initiatives and that was my point. Lobbying locally is great and commendable but until a majority statewide say yes not much happens.
How far do you think SB 1449 would get if 36 hadn't passed?
Just wow. No wonder you feel exploited. Why is it that every Pro-19er so far sounds like a dyed-in-the-wool graduate of the Glenn Beck school? Did you all get a coupon or something?
 
Just wow. No wonder you feel exploited. Why is it that every Pro-19er so far sounds like a dyed-in-the-wool graduate of the Glenn Beck school? Did you all get a coupon or something?
Hey man i don't really know what you are talking about there. I abhor glenn beck and fear the conservative movement a bit. Keep up the good work, we will just have to see what happens in november and beyond.
 

BluffinCali

Well-Known Member
Well according to a large portion of the bill that was translated by people from NORML, prop19 would not supercede the rights that prop215 has already given us, which to my understanding means that medical users would not be subject to the restricted growing area of 5x5, not sure whether or not the individual garden taxes would apply to medical grows, although thats not a big concern of mine as long as the tax is reasonable and not designed to indirectly make it too expensive for the normal, average medicinal grower. Right now in my outdoor medical garden I have single plants that are easily 8x8 if not 10x10 area, so that whole 5x5 deal is just ridiculous to me. So as of now Im not 100% voting no, more like 80/20 for now, I just want legalization without interfering with the rights and regualtions I already have, so anyone with some more comforting info about prop19 not messing with medical gardens, or even if its just your interpretation of what will happen with medical growers, trust me I know this bill has all positives for people without recommendations, but Im pretty sure thats not close to the case when it comes to people who are already growing legally and purely for personal use. This is a very important issue and its weird to think Im leaning towards voting no to marijuana legalization but even most of my friends in the medical community have the same thoughts and worries I do, I literally need one of those yellow books "Understanding Prop19 for Medical Users for Dummies", thats what I need, some black and white facts that explain exactly what is going to happen if we pass the bill into law.
 

Burger Boss

Well-Known Member
Really? If that's what you need to get by, lad... whatever. I personally don't feel the need to imagine death scenarios for anyone, but whatever makes you feel better about yourself. I don't need to wait for the polls. Either way, I get my pot and my clients are still safe from massive price gouging.
Holly Horse shit! you are the GRIM one .........no death scenario here.....it's called a metaphor for a long fall.
Jeezzzz.....I don't want anybody dead. But maybe it's your obsession with money that makes you think like that.
Of course thats just the opinion of a "poo-flinging-monkey", who will................ SEE YA AT THE POLLS!
 

TokinPodPilot

Well-Known Member
Holly Horse shit! you are the GRIM one .........no death scenario here.....it's called a metaphor for a long fall.
Jeezzzz.....I don't want anybody dead. But maybe it's your obsession with money that makes you think like that.
Of course thats just the opinion of a "poo-flinging-monkey", who will................ SEE YA AT THE POLLS!
Excellent. Backtracking and deflection. Text book Beckisms. Please continue.
 

Burger Boss

Well-Known Member
Well according to a large portion of the bill that was translated by people from NORML, prop19 would not supercede the rights that prop215 has already given us, which to my understanding means that medical users would not be subject to the restricted growing area of 5x5, not sure whether or not the individual garden taxes would apply to medical grows, although thats not a big concern of mine as long as the tax is reasonable and not designed to indirectly make it too expensive for the normal, average medicinal grower. Right now in my outdoor medical garden I have single plants that are easily 8x8 if not 10x10 area, so that whole 5x5 deal is just ridiculous to me. So as of now Im not 100% voting no, more like 80/20 for now, I just want legalization without interfering with the rights and regualtions I already have, so anyone with some more comforting info about prop19 not messing with medical gardens, or even if its just your interpretation of what will happen with medical growers, trust me I know this bill has all positives for people without recommendations, but Im pretty sure thats not close to the case when it comes to people who are already growing legally and purely for personal use. This is a very important issue and its weird to think Im leaning towards voting no to marijuana legalization but even most of my friends in the medical community have the same thoughts and worries I do, I literally need one of those yellow books "Understanding Prop19 for Medical Users for Dummies", thats what I need, some black and white facts that explain exactly what is going to happen if we pass the bill into law.
Hey Bluffin', please check this out:> http://sanjosecannabis.org/2010/09/11/open-letter-from-j-david-nick-re-yes-on-prop-19/
This attorney has done fine work for countless MM patients, and it was posted by one of the best MM dispensaries in Santa Clara County. I'm thinking they wouldn't do this if prop 19 was going to harm the MM side in any way. So please, you've heard all this
specious bs being "spewed" in here by disingenuous individuals with personal axes to grind; take a second and check it out.
Good luck & good grow.......BB
 

nathenking

Well-Known Member
For all you guys that are gonna vote yes... Have you seen zeitgeist (federal reserve)??? If you haven't you should google it on watch it on Utube, it will take 30 minutes and you will get a understanding of what really happens... This doesnt directly pertain to this situation, it just shows that things arent what they seem, even with something so little as Prop 19... Check it out if you have time... i promise you it will be worth it... Wether this bill passes or not, there are alot bigger problems, and this video brings them out...
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
Way to miss the point again, Danny-boy. It's fairly obvious that you can't make the difference between for-profit and reasonable compensation. I won't bother you with the intricacies of the direct correlations that those diametrically opposite market models have on the production systems they inherently invoke. Since you can't seem to pay attention to more than a few years of history and legal precedent, I fully realize the futility of such an endeavor.
Please, speak slowly. As the founder of my own mutual benefit non-profit corporation I have no clue what the difference is!

Just fyi - The difference between a for profit business and not for profit has absolutely nothing to do with levels of compensation. Ironically you usually end up having to pay yourself more money in a non-profit business.

The difference is in a non-profit you call the profit a surplus. And that number has to equal zero by the end of the fiscal year. You do that by increasing salaries, adding consultant fees, etc. You can make just as much money and charge the same prices under the non-profit model.

So saying that non-profit businesses are all doing it for charitable purposes and not making much money but for profit business are charging more and making more money is 100% bullshit.

At this point you should probably just stfu. You clearly have no clue what you're talking about here. If you want to continue debating this with me I'll own your ass. Just some friendly advice...

No, we went over that, too. Your willingness to ignore the lack of legislation for those already imprisoned and to exclude a segment of the population without just cause is despicable. The fact that your primary motivation is to gain a profit-bearing business makes you terrible.
You still haven't explained why you think I'm responsible for keeping those people in prison. I'm finding that accusation terribly amusing, so please, do tell.

Sweet... belief in the trickle-down theory of economics. How very 80's of you.
lol. Seriously dude. You should probably avoid big boy topics like business and economics with me. It won't end well for you.

And in case you were wondering. No, not a republican. I think Reaganomics is all bullshit. I'm a huge FDR fan and believe in the Keynesian economic theories. I think personal income tax breaks for the rich is the absolutely worst way to stimulate the economy. The best way is food stamps and increasing welfare.

Trying to characterize me as some fascist republican is pretty lol.

Of course, now that I think about it, the number of times you've repeatedly told people that they don't need more than an ounce
That's not what I said. I said no one needs to walk around with more than an ounce unless they are selling. I've also said I have no objections with people selling illegally. I see absolutely nothing wrong with doing that and I've never said otherwise. The only illegal dealers I have a problem with are the drug cartels/gang bangers. The only reason I have a problem with them is because of the violence. Not a big fan of killing people over bud.


And you always make the assumption of profits on my behalf. I don't profit off anyone I have dealings with. But, then again, I deal directly with my clients and rarely deal with middlemen.
lol. I know. You don't make a profit, you get currency donated to you for you time and energy spent growing it. I've been a medical vendor for years, I know the drill...

Call it a profit, surplus, donation, compensation, or whatever you want. Regardless of the language used your still getting cash in exchange for bud. It's all the same, you just like to bullshit.

And yes, it does make me a better person for dealing fairly and not trying to profit off of people.
lol. Too bad the profits made from legal for profit bud would likely be much lower than the "compensation" you receive due to increased competition and lowered risk.

How many legal products have over a 1000% markup on them? I love how everyone charges this huge markup, but it's all good as long as it's called compensation and not profit. Even if the markup is lower, if it's called a profit, then you're a bad person.

Such hypocritical bullshit. I love it. Teach someone to substitute some words around and all of a sudden they are better than everyone else.
 

Burger Boss

Well-Known Member
Excellent. Backtracking and deflection. Text book Beckisms. Please continue.
ROFLMAO......what the fuck are you smoking dude? Back tracking?? you mean the "monkey-poo"? I'm sorry, I thought you liked that, it certainly originated in YOUR head! But, OK, we wont go THERE anymore..........I must admit to ignorance on the "Text book Beckisms", the only Beck I'm familiar with is Jeff Beck, a legendary musician, but not given to any "Beckisms" that I'm aware of.
I have no reason to "continue" with YOU, your mindset is obviously locked tighter than a nun's legs.
But I will "continue" to monitor this thread very closely until November 2, or it dies!...........See ya at the Polls!
 

TokinPodPilot

Well-Known Member
Looks like I touched a nerve with Dan Beck. I swear, you and the rest of your pro-19 cronies are easy as hell to bait into spewing the same ole talking points. Of course I think and perceive you like a dirty capitalist conserv-a-puke. That's how you paint yourself. You keep screaming compassion out one side of your face and justify your profiteering on medical patients out of the other. Keep with your crazy numbers and wild assumptions. You do Tricky Dick Lee proud.
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
Looks like I touched a nerve with Dan Beck. I swear, you and the rest of your pro-19 cronies are easy as hell to bait into spewing the same ole talking points. Of course I think and perceive you like a dirty capitalist conserv-a-puke. That's how you paint yourself. You keep screaming compassion out one side of your face and justify your profiteering on medical patients out of the other. Keep with your crazy numbers and wild assumptions. You do Tricky Dick Lee proud.
lol. Clearly you didn't understand my post. I used small words so you could follow it along. I guess next time I'll dumb it down a little bit more for you.

And yes, registered democrat since I was 18. Not a republican. Never voted for a republican in my life.

You obviously don't understand what the word profiteering means. Making a profit is not the same thing as profiteering. Having a for profit business does not have anything to do with the price of goods. You can markup products just as high in a non-profit as you can in a for profit business.

I repeat, for profit does not mean higher prices than non-profit. Only those who have no idea about how a business works would think such a thing. You should probably stick to topics where you know what you're talking about. You're sounding like a fool.
 

Burger Boss

Well-Known Member
Looks like I touched a nerve with Dan Beck. I swear, you and the rest of your pro-19 cronies are easy as hell to bait into spewing the same ole talking points. Of course I think and perceive you like a dirty capitalist conserv-a-puke. That's how you paint yourself. You keep screaming compassion out one side of your face and justify your profiteering on medical patients out of the other. Keep with your crazy numbers and wild assumptions. You do Tricky Dick Lee proud.
OMG! I KNEW this was coming....YOU have come COMPLETELY UNHINDGED.........I HONEST to god don't know ANY Dan Beck, so my nerves are unscathed. AND you have gotten your "Hate/Spew" targets mixed up! I'm NOT a medical patient, I wont buy into THAT hypocracy. And I DON'T sell cannabis to anyone. I have MY little 12/16 plant annual patio grow for ME. I do "compassionatly", GIVE some
to family members, but in no way, shape or form do I have "medical patients" to "profiteer" on.
Kindly pull your head out of your ass and get your "hate targets" straight, you fucking moron YOU!
And, oh yes....................See ya at the Polls!
 

TokinPodPilot

Well-Known Member
lol. Clearly you didn't understand my post. I used small words so you could follow it along. I guess next time I'll dumb it down a little bit more for you.

And yes, registered democrat since I was 18. Not a republican. Never voted for a republican in my life.

You obviously don't understand what the word profiteering means. Making a profit is not the same thing as profiteering. Having a for profit business does not have anything to do with the price of goods. You can markup products just as high in a non-profit as you can in a for profit business.

I repeat, for profit does not mean higher prices than non-profit. Only those who have no idea about how a business works would think such a thing. You should probably stick to topics where you know what you're talking about. You're sounding like a fool.
Yes, Danny... we all know you are a democrat. It's amusing that you think that is better, but hey, everyone has to have their delusions. Whatever makes you feel better, lad.

You can regurgitate all the economics crap you want to justify your hunt for more profit. You assert that you have a successful mutual-benefit coop. How much more do you need? Since you're so assured that no one should need more than an ounce at any given time nor ever need more than a 5'x5' garden, then I say that there's plenty of opportunity for reasonable compensation in the current market. Anyone else who needs more is just greedy. I could care less what I sound like to you... just getting you to respond and demonstrate your true intent in supporting Prop. 19 is good enough for me.
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
Yes, Danny... we all know you are a democrat. It's amusing that you think that is better, but hey, everyone has to have their delusions. Whatever makes you feel better, lad.

You can regurgitate all the economics crap you want to justify your hunt for more profit. You assert that you have a successful mutual-benefit coop. How much more do you need? Since you're so assured that no one should need more than an ounce at any given time nor ever need more than a 5'x5' garden, then I say that there's plenty of opportunity for reasonable compensation in the current market. Anyone else who needs more is just greedy. I could care less what I sound like to you... just getting you to respond and demonstrate your true intent in supporting Prop. 19 is good enough for me.
:) you just totally lost the game. best part is, you probably don't even know it.
 

TokinPodPilot

Well-Known Member
Yes, you are quite the master of the internets. I have no possible way to lose, kiddo. If Prop. 19 doesn't pass, I still have my pot and so do those who I provide for. If Prop. 19 passes, I still get my pot and so do those I provide for. Nothing changes for me. Seems to me, you have a lot vested in Prop. 19 passing. Prop. 19 in no way threatens my livelihood, since it doesn't depend on cannabis sales.
 

Dave Hemp

Member
Please read this:

For 18 years, David Nick has successfully litigated a cornucopia of issues regarding cannabis and the applicable laws in both trial and appellate courts. He has not confined his practice to marijuana law, but also litigates cases involving constitutional rights and criminal procedure.

David Nick has never lost a jury trial in a state marijuana case including many precedent setting trials involving some of the most revered figures in the medical marijuana movement such as Brownie Mary, Dennis Peron (Nick has been Peron’s sole attorney since 1994) and Steve Kubby.

One of Nick’s early defenses of Peron’s medical marijuana activism resulted in the first appellate court decision affirming that marijuana can be sold. Kubby’s case was the first large quantity (200 plants) case to be won on the argument that Kubby’s serious ailments necessitated his use of cannabis to keep him alive.

A recent case of interest to patients is the Strauss case, involving a farm in Mendocino County that cultivated marijuana exclusively for a collective in Los Angeles. Nick succeeded in getting a hung jury followed by outright dismissal of all charges involving 250 pounds of processed marijuana, 200 large marijuana plants and $1.5 million in several bank accounts – not exactly consistent with the idea of small collectives with everybody planting, harvesting, trimming and singing Kumbaya.

He is currently representing collectives in Palm Springs, Riverside, Los Angeles and San Jose in preemptive lawsuits asserting the rights of collectives to provide medicine to their members without undue interference from local government officials.

Nick does not confine his practice to marijuana law, but is involved in significant federal criminal litigation.

His litigation has established the right not to be searched by sniffing dogs without probable cause. This is in contract to car searches where police can search you car for no reason at all.

His litigation has lead to policies requiring police to not draw weapons in a marijuana search unless they have information that the person being apprehended is dangerous.

He has successfully litigated jury trials utilizing a necessity for life defense in order to uphold the operation of needle exchange programs.

As far as I am concerned, these experiences qualify him to provide an opinion about Prop. 19 superior to those I have read from the “sky-is-falling” alarmists

Here is Mr. Nick’s analysis of the effects of Prop. 19 on medical marijuana patients.

Subject: AN OPEN LETTER ON PROPOSITION 19
From: J. David Nick. Attorney-at-Law


PROP. 19 IS THE BEST THING TO HAPPEN TO MMJ PATIENTS SINCE PROP. 215

Anyone who claims that Proposition 19 will restrict or eliminate rights under the Compassionate Use Act (CUA) or the Medical Marijuana Program (MMP) is simply wrong. If anything, Proposition 19 will permit individuals to grow and possess much more than ever before with patients, coops and collectives still receiving the same protections they are entitled to under the CUA and MMP.

Here is why.


The legal arguments claiming the “sky will fall” if Prop. 19 passes are based on the fallacious conclusion that the Initiative invalidates the CUA and MMP. This baseless fear stems from a flawed legal analysis which focuses on just about every portion of Prop. 19 EXCEPT the relevant portions. This flawed legal analysis is driven by an incorrect understanding of the rules of statutory construction.

Although extrinsic materials (such as legislative committee memos or voter pamphlet arguments) may not be resorted to when the legislative language is clear, courts may never ignore the purpose of the legislation. Every interpretation a court gives a statute must be consistent with the purpose of the legislation. This is why statutes have long “preambles” which explicitly state the purposes of the legislation.

This rule is so controlling that a court is required to ignore the literal language of a legislative statute if it conflicts with the purpose of the legislation. By example I call attention to the appellate court case of Bell v. DMV. In this precedent setting case, the court ruled that a statute must be interpreted to apply to civil proceedings even though the statute they were interpreting stated it applied only to “criminal” proceedings. The court’s interpretation of the statute was consistent with the purposes of the legislation and the limitation to criminal cases in the statute itself was not.

PROP. 19 PROVIDES ADDITIONAL PROTECTIONS TO PATIENTS FROM THE ACTIONS OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT

Section 2B presents the controlling and relevant purposes for understanding what Prop. 19 can and cannot do. This section EXPRESSLY excludes the reach of Prop. 19 from the CUA and MMP. Sections 2B [7 & 8] specifically state that the purpose of this initiative is to give municipalities total and complete control over the commercial sales of marijuana “EXCEPT as permitted under Health and Safety Sections 11362.5 and 11362.7 through 11362.9.”

Prop. 19 makes it perfectly clear that the Initiative does NOT give municipalities any control over how medical marijuana patients obtain their medicine or how much they can possess and cultivate as the purpose of the legislation was to exempt the CUA and the MMP from local government reach. Whatever control municipalities have over patients and collectives is limited by the CUA and the MMP, not by Prop. 19.

To further reduce everyone’s understandable anxiety over allowing municipalities to unduly control collectives, I direct everyone’s attention to the last statute of the MMP, 11362.83, which reads. “Nothing in this article shall prevent a city or other local governing body from adopting and enforcing laws CONSISTENT with this article.”

Since collectives are expressly allowed, local ordinances banning them are not consistent with the MMP. Health and Safety Code Section 11362.83, which limits municipalities ability to ban coops or overly restrict them, is unaffected by Prop. 19 as it expressly states in Sections 2B [7 & 8] that the laws created by Prop. 19 must be followed “EXCEPT as permitted under Health and Safety Sections 11362.5 and 11362.7 through 11362.9.”

PROP. 19 PROTECTS PATIENTS PERSONAL AND COLLECTIVE CULTIVATIONS

Further protecting patients from local law enforcement actions, Section 11303 states that “no state or local law enforcement agency or official shall attempt to, threaten to, or in fact SEIZE or destroy any cannabis plant, cannabis seeds or cannabis that is LAWFULLY CULTIVATED.” If you are a patient, you may “lawfully cultivate” as much marijuana as medically necessary and Prop. 19 protects that right. If you are cultivating for a collective, you may “lawfully cultivate” as much marijuana as your collective allows you to and Prop. 19 protects that right. Unfortunately, many law enforcement officials refuse to recognize the rights provided under the MMP for collectives to “lawfully cultivate” and sell marijuana. Prop. 19 reinforces those rights and makes it even more difficult for law enforcement to bust a collective or collective grower.

IT WILL KEEP POLICE FROM COOPERATING WITH THE FEDS

As you can see from the above paragraph, the statutory scheme Prop. 19 creates expressly forbids law enforcement from seizing lawfully cultivated cannabis.

Prop. 19 will create an insurmountable barrier for local law enforcement which is still bent on depriving you of your rights through the despicable device of using federal law enforcement officers.

Here’s why.


Federal drug enforcement is nearly 100 percent dependent on the ability to use local law enforcement. They do not have the manpower to operate without it. Prop. 19 in no uncertain terms tells local law enforcement that they cannot even “attempt to” seize cannabis. If Prop. 19 passes, California will actually have a law on the books that expressly forbids local police from cooperating with the feds in the seizure of any “lawfully cultivated” California cannabis.

PROP. 19 DOES NOT LIMIT PATIENTS RIGHTS UNDER THE CUA & MMP

The nail in the coffin for those arguing against Prop. 19 is found in Section 2C (1). This is the only section which discusses which other laws the acts is “intended to limit” and nowhere in this section is the CUA or the MMP listed. If the purpose of Prop. 19 was “to limit” the application and enforcement of the CUA and MMP, those laws would have been listed along with all the other laws that are listed in Section 2C (1). Since the CUA and MMP were not listed, then Prop. 19 does not “limit” the CUA and MMP.

It’s that simple.

PROP. 19 MAKES IT EASIER FOR PATIENTS TO OBTAIN THEIR MEDICINE

Section 2B (6) states that one of the purposes of Prop. 19 is to “Provide easier, safer access for patients who need cannabis for medical purposes.” This section is one of the many reasons Prop. 19 is very good for patients. If Prop. 19 passes, the days of having to go through the hassle of getting a doctor’s recommendation to treat simple medical conditions will be coming to an end in those communities which allow Prop. 19 “stores” to exist. When you need an aspirin you do not have to go to a doctor and then to the health department and then to Walgreens – YOU JUST GO TO WALGREENS (the founder of which, Mr. Walgreen, became rich during prohibition by selling “medical” alcohol to patients who had obtained a prescription for alcohol from their doctor).

In those communities which are stubborn and will not allow Prop 19 “stores,” patients will still have the protections of the CUA and MMP and the statutory right to form coops and collectives. Prop. 19 specifically recognizes that these rights are not invalidated and does nothing to limit the ability of patients to cultivate or form collectives or coops.

PROP. 19 ALLOWS YOU TO HAVE A LOT OF MARIJUANA

As an attorney called upon to defend patients and non-patients in marijuana cases, I cannot tell you how beneficial and how much freedom Section 11300 subdivision A (3) of Prop.19 will be to cannabis users. Read it!

Section 11300: Personal Regulation and Controls

(a) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, it is lawful and shall not be a public offense under California law for any person 21 years of age or older to:
(i) Personally possess, process, share, or transport not more than one ounce of cannabis, solely for that individual’s personal consumption, and not for sale.
(iii) Possess on the premises where grown the living and harvested plants and results of ANY harvest and processing of plants lawfully cultivated pursuant to section 11300(a)(ii), for personal consumption.

Section (i) limits possession to one ounce OUT OF YOUR HOUSE. Section (iii) permits people 21 and over to have within their residence or single parcel ALL the cannabis which one grew in their 25 sq. foot parcel, including what you grew this year, what you grew last year and EVERY SINGLE 25 SQ. FT. HARVEST YOU EVER HAD ON THAT SINGLE PARCEL. This covers as many cycles of indoor and/or outdoor grown cannabis as a person can produce as long as each grow was no more than 25 square feet and done in succession.

Clearly section 11300(a) (i) limits personal possession and consumption to one ounce OUT OF YOUR HOME while section11300(a) (iii) is what you are allowed to have AT YOUR RESIDENCE if that is where your 25 sq. ft. garden is located. That this is the case is established by another rule of statutory construction, i.e. the specific controls the general. Here (iii) is the specific statute with respect to what you can have AT YOUR RESIDENCE ONLY or in the words of subdivision (iii) “on the premises where grown”.

The one ounce limitation only applies when you leave your house, not wherever it is you grow your 25 foot plot. I can picture being able to easily defend a person with 200 pounds who is not even medical.

Under Prop. 19 you can only travel with one ounce, but if you are a patient you can still enjoy the protections of the CUA and MMP and can safely travel with eight ounces, or whatever your doctor permits you to have or the needs of your collective, as allowed by the CUA and the MMP. YOUR SUPPLY PROBLEMS CAUSED BY PARANOID CULTIVATION LAWS AND POLICIES THAT AT TIMES LIMIT YOUR PERSONAL CULTIVATION PROJECTS ARE SOLVED BY PROP. 19.

Prop. 19 creates a marijuana sanctuary IN YOUR HOME ONLY. Prop. 19 allows you to have AT YOUR HOME ONLY ALL OF THE PROCEEDS of every successive 25 sq. foot plot. However, Prop 19 only allows you TO REMOVE IT FROM YOUR HOME one ounce at a time if you are a recreational user.

For patients this is not the case because Prop. 19 exempts them from the one ounce out of home restriction. As stated above, if you are a patient then you can take out of your house up to eight ounces, or whatever your doctor permits you to have or the needs of your collective.

Both medical patients and recreational users should note that Section 11300(a) (i) allows you to “share” up to an ounce which tells me that you can furnish as many one ounces to as many friends as you wish, thus if you have a party with 50 people you could give away 50 ounces.

UNDERSTANDING “NOTWITHSTANDING”

As for the argument that the various “Notwithstanding” clauses invalidate the CUA and MMP, I reiterate, that in section 2C (1) where Prop. 19 expressly states which statues are being altered, the CUA and MMP are not listed. Therefore, when you use the word “notwithstanding,” you cannot be referring to statues that have been expressly excluded.

Claiming there is some doubt as to what “notwithstanding” means or refers to requires at most that we reach back to the purpose of the legislation in order to give it proper meaning. Whatever interpretation you give it, “notwithstanding” cannot be in conflict with Sections 2 B [7 & 8] which exempt patients covered under the CUA and MMP from any actions taken by municipalities to regulate the non-medical use of cannabis.

The word “notwithstanding” is used when reversing prior legislation and has traditionally been interpreted by prior case law to be a word employed for the purpose of allowing conduct that had previously been forbidden by other statutes. If the word “notwithstanding” was not used in Prop. 19, municipalities would be able to claim that there is still a prohibition on their participation in the licensing and regulating of this activity.

For example, a law making skipping in front of a school illegal would be overturned by a law which says “notwithstanding other laws, skipping is legal.” If the word “notwithstanding” was not there, then skipping in front of a school would still be illegal even though skipping itself would be legal at any other location

The rationale behind this rule emanates or comes from another rule of statutory construction which is that existing laws cannot be repealed by inference and instead must be EXPRESSLY repealed. A court cannot find that a law, such as the CUA or MMP, was changed by “implication.” In other words, it cannot repeal a law by ruling that another law implied that it should.

Although Sections 2B [7 & 8] gives cities control over the non-medical distribution of cannabis, that in no way allows a court to repeal or even change the CUA and MMP by ruling that it was “implicit” in Prop. 19 that they do so. It is contrary to any rational understanding of statutory construction to infer that since Prop. 19 gives cities control over the distribution of non-medical marijuana, that it also gives cities the right to control the medical distribution of cannabis beyond what the CUA and MMP allows.

The word “notwithstanding” is simply a legal necessity to repeal the various statutes that prohibit the conduct that prop. 19 now permits.

So can everyone please VOTE YES ON 19.

Sincerely,
J. David Nick
Attorney-at-Law
 

Burger Boss

Well-Known Member
Well done Dave! This is the 3rd time this "gem of Truth" has shown up on this thread. And that's not a problem because maybe 1 or 2 Naysayers might finally get "it"!
If nothing else, LOL, it sure seems to be a "thread stopper"! It sort of "drains" their ammunition and leaves them speechless.
So, for the good folks who would support fairness, honesty, and prop 19, Good luck & good grow.
And for the clowns with their "undies in a knot" and realize their cash cow goes away after November 2, I have a small supply of
"Black Capsules", that I will gladly share. (See! I AM a compassionate person!).......BB
Oh yeah..........................See ya at the Polls!
 

Needofweed

Active Member
look lets get one thing strait first and formost im not trying to disresrect anyone. this is my point of view. i want just as bad to have legal bud in the state i just dont think that prop 19 is the right way to do it. also im not talking about growers and there profits im talking about small companies that depend on todays maket wich will be destroyed buy big marijuana corporations. i know full well that there is larg scale marijuana ops exist in cali but they dont go down to to local head shop to buy a quart of nutrient or 12 plastic pot or a hydro set up. they buy bulk from big manufactering companies.also why is there such harsh restritions on how much people can grow at there own homes, because "they"(big marijuana) dont want competition.it says that a person can grow at a private residents in a 25 squared foot area. theres no specification on how many people at the resedent can grow,in othere words i live with 4 othere people all over the age of 21 and this prop does not garantee all of use individual 25 square foot plots. insted it sugguest that each household use a 25 foot plot regardless of the number of people in the house hold that use marijuana. this again is to prevent compitition with corporations what will try and monopolize the industy.
 
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