Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
I'm sure I would have had a "cult-like" mentality about passing civil rights in the 60s, too, or womens rights in the 20s
What Democrats have sponsored or cosponsored a bill to enact universal healthcare?
- Thread starter Padawanbater2
- Start date
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
not sure about that given your disregard for civil rights issues today.
SneekyNinja
Well-Known Member
The fact they think Clinton would have been the same for minorities as Trump shows they don't realise how easy us crackers have it.
st0wandgrow
Well-Known Member
I didn't say they are the same. I said I don't think they are much better than Republicans on a lot of issues. Some issues they are clearly better (gun control for example, they talk a good game but never get shit done), but a lot of issues there is not much separating them. Look at Obama for example. He did some things to wind down the war(s), but we still have boots on the ground over there, and his use of drone strikes was downright hawkish. How about Gitmo...did he close that as promised? Sure the ACA is better than what we had, and certainly better than what the republicans are proposing, but he had health insurance execs help write the bill for christ sake. He filled his cabinet with Wall St execs that helped crash the economy in the first place. He codified the George W Bush tax cuts (lol). He deported more people than any other potus before him. He was downright conservative in going after medical marijuana businesses. He even tried to slash social security and medicaid!
You tell me, is that a liberal agenda?
So yeah, they are better than Republicans on a lot of things, but nowhere near where they should be. To suggest otherwise would be "naive".
I'm sick of choosing between a pile of horse shit and a pile of cow shit. One is slightly less offensive than the other, but neither are what I (and the majority of Americans) want. The Democratic nominee for potus just lost the election to the most unpopular candidate in the history of the country! Does that not tell you something?
And you call others naive. smh
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Naive. Yes, I call your argument naive. All you need to do is look at Republican actions since Trump took office to see the huge gap between the parties. Also naive to ignore the fact that Obama was completely opposed by both houses in complete control of legislation and budget.
Why do you blame Democrats for not getting a few sane gun laws in place? Yes, I call you naive for saying this.
Dodd-Frank was insufficient. Was it Obama who wrote that? Where is his name on the bill? And now, it's being dismantled. Yes, I call you naive for claiming Democrats are bad because they should have done more.
We have some agreement. I hate the fucking drone strike program. I'm also disappointed that Gitmo isn't closed down. Neither of those began under Obama but he did continue them. No argument.
Obama began his campaign with Universal Heath care coverage as one of his policies and said so during one of the debates. He started out with this policy and ended up with the ACA. Here I agree with you, insurance companies have a sweetheart deal. Or would have if Republicans hadn't broken the government's side of the deal. In my state, at least, this caused several companies to pull out of the health care exchanges. In other states, there is only one provider left. Tell me again how working with insurance companies wasn't necessary to gain their cooperation? So, I agree and disagree with you here. The ACA was the only bill that could have been passed during the short window of Democratic party control of Congress. It's not enough but a good start. Mixed bag. It's reasonable to be disappointed, The fact remains that Republicans are the reason the ACA, Medicare and Medicaid are in jeopardy. To blame Democrats is to blame the people who tried but fell short.
This thing about us still being in the Middle East. Recall that McCain advocated the bombing of Iraq in 2004. He was very hawkish in his policies during the 2008 campaign. Tell me that he would have drawn down troop levels to zero during his term. I don't think we'd have gotten troops down to where Obama left them. Under Republicans the number is going back up. I don't know what you think but it seems to me that Trump is pretty much on the war path.
So, yeah, our Democracy doesn't hold up to your aspirations. It's a Democracy.
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Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Retarded.
Are those 81 Democrats the reason Republicans will never let the bill get to the house floor? 60% of Democrats support the bill. This is called a large majority. No Republican support it. Yet you want to obsess about Democrats.
Retarded.
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
Why don't the other 81 House Democrats support enacting universal healthcare?
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
There could be 81 different reasons. The Democratic party isn't a monolith. You require all or else "the Democratic Party opposes the bill". Is this really what you mean? If so, then you are retarded.
60% >>> 0%
I know this is hard for you to understand.
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
Could one of those reasons be because they don't actually support enacting universal healthcare?
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
I don't know. You tell me. Like I said, there can be 81 different reasons. The Democratic Party isn't a monolith. The third party you and Ty talk about would be a monolith? This is your idea of Democracy?
Let's try some numbers again:
193 = number of Democratic party representatives in the House.
113 = 59% of Democratic party congressmen who cosponsor the bill
80 = 41% of Democratic party congressmen who didn't cosponsor the bill.
239 = number of Republican party representatives in the House
0 = 0% of Republican party representatives in the House who cosponsor the bill.
293 = 100% of Republican party representatives in the House who don't cosponsor the bill.
Some facts can be gleaned from this.
239 > 193 There is no hope that the bill will move forward.
59% > 41% A large majority of Democrats cosponsor the bill. A minority haven't cosponsored the bill. Note that not cosponsoring the bill doesn't mean won't vote for it.
0 is the same as saying none. None of the Republican congressmen have cosponsored the bill.
100% is the same as saying all. All of the Republican congressmen don't cosponsor the bill.
What is not a fact.
Democrats don't support the bill.
What is a fact (coda)
59% > 41% A large majority of Democrats cosponsor the bill.
Why you are retarded:
You say Democrats are the reason this bill isn't moving.
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visajoe1
Well-Known Member
Fog, why are you shocked the right isnt supporting universal healthcare? they had nothing to do with ACA, and look at it now in all its glory, its imploding. and folks are pissed the right isnt fixing it fast enough? are you fuckin serious? are you really suprised the ACA is such an awful plan that had to be crammed through congress and "passed to find out whats inside" to quote the legendary ms pelosi.
your heartache might lessen if you realize that your dream of universal healthcare is not a popular one in the US. you may, however, move to one of the many places the left champions as being examples of Democrat policies (i.e. Europe)
your heartache might lessen if you realize that your dream of universal healthcare is not a popular one in the US. you may, however, move to one of the many places the left champions as being examples of Democrat policies (i.e. Europe)
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
Yeah ya do, you're just too much of a pussy to admit you were wrong which says a lot about your character. Have a nice day.
Olive Drab Green
Well-Known Member
Check out these premiums for pre-existing conditions under TrumpCare:
Pregnancy is a pre-existing condition? What the fuck? And the majority of the country suffers from some form of addiction or substance dependence issue. Autism?! Bipolar?! Arthritis and autoimmune diseases?! SEVERE AND METASTATIC CANCER?! Look at those goddamned premium increases!
This shit is total garbage. Any of you who supports this trash is fucking disgusting and I hope if it passes that you get one of these conditions before having no choice but to sign up for TrumpCare. Got cancer? Too bad, bankruptcy or death. Is that cool with you?
This isn't even a form of insurance, it's a scam aiming to prey on the weak and vulnerable. The worst part is that the GOP knows it, and that's why they are trying to implement it.
Pregnancy is a pre-existing condition? What the fuck? And the majority of the country suffers from some form of addiction or substance dependence issue. Autism?! Bipolar?! Arthritis and autoimmune diseases?! SEVERE AND METASTATIC CANCER?! Look at those goddamned premium increases!
This shit is total garbage. Any of you who supports this trash is fucking disgusting and I hope if it passes that you get one of these conditions before having no choice but to sign up for TrumpCare. Got cancer? Too bad, bankruptcy or death. Is that cool with you?
This isn't even a form of insurance, it's a scam aiming to prey on the weak and vulnerable. The worst part is that the GOP knows it, and that's why they are trying to implement it.
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Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Democrats support universal healthcare coverage much like you will have in California very soon. Lucky dog.
This debate is having a good effect on public opinion. Not the crap with Paddy and me but the overall debate:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/democratic-support-for-single-payer-health-care-is-rising_us_594d8acde4b05c37bb768420?q1p&ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009
Sanders is to be congratulated for raising the debate and doing so on his own.
Pad-Tty and I agree that universal healthcare coverage would be a good thing. I just don't understand the passionate hatred Pad-Tty have for a minority of Democratic Party representatives who don't cosponsor a given bill without knowing their reasons. I also don't understand how they can say with a straight face that Democrats don't support universal healthcare coverage.
So, let's have the discussion about universal healthcare coverage without the lies. Fact is, Universal Heath Care coverage would cut health care costs, improve health care outcomes and protect working people from losing coverage if they lose their job or can't work due to disability.
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Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Meltdown
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Visa, you are lucky you live in a state that will have universal healthcare coverage.
This debate is a healthy one and it's moving public opinion in the proper (left) direction. I'm OK with what Sanders is doing in his position as an independent he can say whatever he likes. Unlike you and Pad-Tty, I can handle differences of opinion. I have difficulty with liars and people who repeat lies.