WHERES THE REAL GROWERS! BRING YOUR A GAME TO THIS POST!

King Arthur said:

I already agreed with you about the phenotype being the same but resin content, weight, terpene content will all be different. They will all hold the same ingredients but to what degree will they have them. I understand with everyone having the attention span lower than a goldfish it is hard to read through everything someone said though.

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Tisk, tisk, tisk.
I thought I explained this in the clone only thread, and I know you were there Arthur.

The problem is the basic misconception of what a phenotype is.
Everyone uses the wrong terminology.
Phenotype is genetics + environment.
For example, a strain that required cold nights for purple color.
Can anyone argue that the purple "pheno" and the green "pheno" are the same pheno?
Obviously not. But they are the same exact genotype, different environmental triggers brought out differences.
What people mean to say is genotype, because every single plant is a genotype. There are no twins. Yes, through proper breeding the genotypes are lessened and the goal is to end up with just 1 or 2 possible genotypes .But you are actually not pheno hunting, its geno hunting.
I actually posted a question about this in chem 91 thread on ic too, but no answers.

Genotype is the set of genes that it carries. Phenotype is all of its observable characteristics...
Genotype is the genetic makup. Phenotype is the detectable expression of the Genotype . An expressed and Observable trait like pistil color.

I use to grow indoors...



But then I realized ounces per plant with a high power bill didn't compare to pounds per plant with no power bill...



check the outdoor forums if you want to see "real growers"
I'll put my outdoor up against just about any weed out there, indoor or outdoor.


Even if indoor was some how twice as good, I grow 5 times as much and only have to smoke twice as much.

There's a huge price difference between in and out because the quality is much better. I know some that do both because of that.. I stick to indoor I like my privacy..I also grow perpetual witch you cant do outdoor without a green house. Something I whipped up

Hammerhead571 said:

Genotype is the set of genes that it carries. Phenotype is all of its observable characteristics...
Genotype is the genetic makup. Phenotype is the detectable expression of the Genotype . An expressed and Observable trait like pistil color.

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Not only genotype determines phenotype. My example of a purple pheno from cold nights and a green pheno from the same exact mother plant proves that. Environment is a huge factor, its 50/50. Half genetics, half environment.

You have neglected to mention the environment.
I don''t think one cant talk about pheno vs geno and not mention the environment.
I am not talking about just plants, this is basic genetics.

The genotype of an organism is the genetic code in its cells. This genetic constitution of an individual influences – but is not solely responsible for – many of its traits. The phenotype is the visible or expressed trait, such as hair color. The phenotype depends upon the genotype but can also be influenced by environmental factors.
http://www.diffen.com/difference/Genotype_vs_Phenotype

I like the example with the pink flamigo and the white flamigo from this one
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/evo101/IIIA1Genotypevsphenotype.shtml

I feel like any advanced grower would know this and a breeder would have to fully understand this, yet...
Please help end the misinformation. Lets get in line with science.

You are correct. its just not in my example.. It can be be influenced by the environment but that doesn't always happen..I don't know if I would say 50/50. More like 60/40. but that's just from what I have observed. Your cold example would turn most purple even people lol. You could just keep increasing the temp until did. You can manipulate your environment to achieve the results you want. It has a very strong influence on Phenotype expression

captainmorgan said:

The pic that phil k posted of the cut he got from Herbal Solutions looks off but the pic of his other cut from another source looks right on.

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yeah i know thats whats fucking pissing me off now!!!!!!

but SEE what I'm saying he wasn't selling the cuttings and didn't list it as GORILLA GLUE 4 thats why i honest to god don't think he had the ORIGNAL true cutting of GG4... which in my mind is why he didn't label it gg4... you know what i mean? i mean shit I'm not trying to argue anything the whole time I've just been saying i honestly think he had some secondary s1 cutting he entered.. hell i don't know i won't know till i smoke the GG4 cut thats finishing.. i do know this.... way before i had herbals cut.. i went to another local dispensary and tried gorilla glue 4 flower for my first time after i finished herbals flower it had the same flavors and tastes.. but the bud structure truly had a different style to it... thats the only reason I'm sitting here even trying to say look "theres a possibility his isn't the actual gg4 forum that you have..... thats it...

shishkaboy said:

Tisk, tisk, tisk.
I thought I explained this in the clone only thread, and I know you were there Arthur.

The problem is the basic misconception of what a phenotype is.
Everyone uses the wrong terminology.
Phenotype is genetics + environment.
For example, a strain that required cold nights for purple color.
Can anyone argue that the purple "pheno" and the green "pheno" are the same pheno?
Obviously not. But they are the same exact genotype, different environmental triggers brought out differences.
What people mean to say is genotype, because every single plant is a genotype. There are no twins. Yes, through proper breeding the genotypes are lessened and the goal is to end up with just 1 or 2 possible genotypes .But you are actually not pheno hunting, its geno hunting.
I actually posted a question about this in chem 91 thread on ic too, but no answers.

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King Arthur said:

You are completely right about the main look to it but...

Doesn't matter if you know what it is, you can grow something at 29% and then your buddy could do the same and get 18. You can have a batch full of terpenes and he might not. Just because something looks similar doesn't mean they will even come close to the same effects.


Not bagging on you at all, I have seen many many lbs of marijuana come through in my life and many of them are from the same cut grown by different people. Each one has its own strengths and weaknesses, even the SAME grower has variations in crops.

Good Example: the True OG was testing at 16.59% when I first stumbled upon it and now the same cut that has been held for over 20 years is being grown out to achieve like 27-29%. All kinds of factors manipulate the final result and though the 16% and the 29% smell very very similar and look very close minus an increase in trichome coverage... they both look and taste and smell so similar you wouldn't call it a different OG you would know right off the bat it is the true. But they are far from the same.

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well heres the question i have about that so lets say i got a cutting right. i mom it cut clones give a buddy my genetics.. something happens and i loose them.. now i go to my friend obtain the cutting off his mother.... (clearly two different environments) ... no lets say somehow some genetic drift happened due to his temps being low.. maybe the leafe style changes and stretches a bit more.. when i bring the genetics back to my environment will they ever re-drift back or is it like "salt water coral morphs" their genetics can change over years and years of cutting and regrowing..

or is the only real area your going to see changes is in flower environment?

cause I've always personally thought that the genetics transfers of clones from one environment to the next to the next and so on somewhere has to create a flaw.
to me its like taking a pineapple tree out of the ground in florida and bringing it to michigan expecting to have a palm in my yard... although its completely plausible theres going to be issues that occur with the genetics shifting environments
hop that made sense.

Hammerhead571 said:

There's a huge price difference between in and out because the quality is much better. I know some that do both because of that.. I stick to indoor I like my privacy..I also grow perpetual witch you cant do outdoor without a green house. Something I whipped up


View attachment 3410568 View attachment 3410570 View attachment 3410571View attachment 3410578

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Greenhouses are only $105 Shipped. There isnt a huge price difference in my outdoor vs indoor. it goes for exactly the same amount! Good weed is good weed IMO but most people cant tell mine is outdoor. Clubs and other growers assume its indoor. When they assume I dont correct. I harvert 5-10 lbs 3 times a year in my 15x7 greenhouse and 60+lbs from my regular outdoor. I like privacy aswell, thats why i got enough property no one else can see. Again even if quality was twice as good, which its not, I'd rather smoke two bowls and grow 5 times as much.

Or if i only want to smoke a hit or two, i always have an oz or two of hash

Hammerhead571 said:

There's a huge price difference between in and out because the quality is much better. I know some that do both because of that.. I stick to indoor I like my privacy..I also grow perpetual witch you cant do outdoor without a green house. Something I whipped up


View attachment 3410568 View attachment 3410570 View attachment 3410571View attachment 3410578

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Nice and frosty but small
10lbs of this went as indoor less than a week ago!

unspecified said:

Greenhouses are only $105 Shipped. There isnt a huge price difference in my outdoor vs indoor. it goes for exactly the same amount! Good weed is good weed IMO but most people cant tell mine is outdoor. Clubs and other growers assume its indoor. When they assume I dont correct. I harvert 5-10 lbs 3 times a year in my 15x7 greenhouse and 60+lbs from my regular outdoor. I like privacy aswell, thats why i got enough property no one else can see. Again even if quality was twice as good, which its not, I'd rather smoke two bowls and grow 5 times as much. View attachment 3410641

Or if i only want to smoke a hit or two, i always have an oz or two of hash
View attachment 3410657

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no i agree i mean outdoor green house grows CAN be controlled and much higher quality can be accomplished in a green house rather than a forest or back yard open grow.. but hammer is right you have to think about all the crap your plants go through outside with temp flux.. water... rain water ... pests and crap .. indoor the stability is what make the product better and brings the money in.. theres some super good outdoor I'm not saying there isn't but i jet don't feel outdoor ever hits the quality of a proper indoor grow

phil k said:

well heres the question i have about that so lets say i got a cutting right. i mom it cut clones give a buddy my genetics.. something happens and i loose them.. now i go to my friend obtain the cutting off his mother.... (clearly two different environments) ... no lets say somehow some genetic drift happened due to his temps being low.. maybe the leafe style changes and stretches a bit more.. when i bring the genetics back to my environment will they ever re-drift back or is it like "salt water coral morphs" their genetics can change over years and years of cutting and regrowing..

or is the only real area your going to see changes is in flower environment?

cause I've always personally thought that the genetics transfers of clones from one environment to the next to the next and so on somewhere has to create a flaw.
to me its like taking a pineapple tree out of the ground in florida and bringing it to michigan expecting to have a palm in my yard... although its completely plausible theres going to be issues that occur with the genetics shifting environments
hop that made sense.

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Makes perfect sence, bro. Good question.
What about if it was in MI. then transplanted to FL?

I really dont know the answers I am still learning every run, just like everyone else. I will share this tho. I got a cut from a homie that was sick as hell. Only threw out 1 and 3 fingered leaves. I mommed her up and got her to shoot a few 5's so far but I will say IME, over time the plant can get back healthy with proper care.

First run

second run


current run

first run bud close up

this is still a ways out but heres Ghost train Haze from rare dankness

unspecified said:

Nice and frosty but small
10lbs of this went as indoor less than a week ago!
View attachment 3410668

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What do you call it?

phil k said:

no i agree i mean outdoor green house grows CAN be controlled and much higher quality can be accomplished in a green house rather than a forest or back yard open grow.. but hammer is right you have to think about all the crap your plants go through outside with temp flux.. water... rain water ... pests and crap .. indoor the stability is what make the product better and brings the money in.. theres some super good outdoor I'm not saying there isn't but i jet don't feel outdoor ever hits the quality of a proper indoor grow

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I use to run a 6k watt sealed room, it got torn down to make a drying room. I had everything, a grow room could have but it didnt touch what i can do outdoor.

unspecified said:

I use to run a 6k watt sealed room, it got torn down to make a drying room. I had everything, a grow room could have but it didnt touch what i can door outdoor

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where r u from? i mean i can see that being the case in hawaii with all the microclimates.. or places like that.. I'm in michigan we have like a 4 month grow window of DESCENT wether but sometimes the last month can get crappy... i mean our weather shifts so much from rain to dry here that outdoors aren't bad at all but they don't touch indoor...

shishkaboy said:

What do you call it?

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I call it marijuana... or what ever strain it happen to be. That was Orange Og

phil k said:

where r u from? i mean i can see that being the case in hawaii with all the microclimates.. or places like that.. I'm in michigan we have like a 4 month grow window of DESCENT wether but sometimes the last month can get crappy... i mean our weather shifts so much from rain to dry here that outdoors aren't bad at all but they don't touch indoor...

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Central valley cali. Almost the dead center of the state. I havent had a drop of rain or bug on my outdoor in years.

phil k said:

where r u from? i mean i can see that being the case in hawaii with all the microclimates.. or places like that.. I'm in michigan we have like a 4 month grow window of DESCENT wether but sometimes the last month can get crappy... i mean our weather shifts so much from rain to dry here that outdoors aren't bad at all but they don't touch indoor...

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but i can see som

unspecified said:

I call it marijuana... or what ever strain it happen to be. That was Orange Og

Central valley cali. I havent had a drop of rain or bug on my outdoor in years.

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LOL i knew you were going to say cali.. yeah well your outdoor season is like 6 months but moreover your environment is NOTHING like here... so yeah i mean id say you probably do have great outdoors..... but still and indoor fan!!

phil k said:

but i can see som

LOL i knew you were going to say cali.. yeah well your outdoor season is like 6 months but moreover your environment is NOTHING like here... so yeah i mean id say you probably do have great outdoors..... but still and indoor fan!!

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I know a really good indoor can be better than my outdoor... but... quantity and quality beat just quality. 1700 a month for power isnt fun!

you'd never say that if you lived here and grew outdoor here.. we get weeks of 80-95% humidity... two years ago PM in michigan outdoor was so bad that i couldn't keep it off my vegetable garden. i don't flower outdoors too much shit.. but i do do gardens outside and they struggle in michigan sometimes..