Why No Clay? Manure? Sand? Forest Mould?!

st0wandgrow

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
smokey the cat said:
How do you rate neem as a food source - is it low and slow, or fast and easy break down?

Just thinking about how it would go in other mixes in the house - palms and succulents which could do with a low impact systemic to fight off pests and stuff.
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IMO it serves a couple purposes..... which most of the inputs I've whittled down to do. It's a good source of food, mostly N. Equally as important is that it serves as a great IPM tool. Between Neem seed meal and crab shell meal I have completely eliminated bugs of any kind from my grow. No gnats, no mites, no thrips, nothing. I don't take any special precautions like changing clothes or showering before going in to my rooms. I really believe that I can attribute this to mostly the neem and crab shell meal.

edit: I would pick some up from neem resource. I'm sold on their products, and I feel that it's worth the extra money to have it shipped. This is the only item I use that isn't sourced locally.

http://www.neemresource.com/


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cannakis

cannakis

Well-Known Member
greasemonkeymann said:
the soil is three year old vermifire, its an organic soil with a good mix of typical nutrients, akin to roots/ocean forest/fox farm... I've amended about 10% leaf compost in there too, I wish I had more but my compost pile isn't ready yet, so that's all I have right now.
I've grown two harvests through it, and the second harvest I just used AACT (it was an experiment, on no added nutes) anyways I imagine it's rather used up, I really like the volcanic rock and texture of the soil so I figured I'd "wake it up" a lil, by adding some stuff.
I figure adding a 1/4 cup of most of those amendments will do that, without loading the soil up too much, I may leave out the rabbit manure and fish bone meal, as I think it may have enough food in there as is. the biochar I'm inoculating with a comfrey/dandelion/alfalfa tea, I figure that has a nice amount of nitrogen in it to keep the biochar from stealing my nitrogen.
It's my first biochar experience sooo, not sure if 8 cups a cubic foot is too much or not, maybe 6 cups?
I wish I could tell you more of what the initial makeup of the soil was, I just can't justify throwing soil away, especially the vermifire, just the volcanic rock alone is worth re-using it, and I've grown some spectacular herb using just vermifire, back when I didn't recycle soil yrs ago....
anyways, it's a shame to throw it away, so here I am.
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I hear ya I wouldn't Ever throw away Anything is my motto. Everything can be used again some way or another, haha I literally have to force myself to throw stuff away, but I usually even like two years later realize oh wait I have one ofththose somewhere!
 
cannakis

cannakis

Well-Known Member
cannakis said:
I hear ya I wouldn't Ever throw away Anything is my motto. Everything can be used again some way or another, haha I literally have to force myself to throw stuff away, but I usually even like two years later realize oh wait I have one ofththose somewhere!
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reduce reuse recycle thats the propaganda, i mean motto right.!?
 
cannakis

cannakis

Well-Known Member
greasemonkeymann said:
its a slow release , can't remember the NPK, but i speculate that doesn't matter much as it breaks down over several grows, i don't use it for the NPK source, i use it for my constant battle with the myriad of mites that live in the redwoods that i live in, and they eat my plants, every damn time. Not to mention it works well on gnats that love the organic soil. It worked pretty good on my wormbin too.
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redwoods? i thought you lived in Good Ole South Carolina? are there redwoods down there?
 
Pattahabi

Pattahabi

Well-Known Member
st0wandgrow said:
edit: I would pick some up from neem resource. I'm sold on their products, and I feel that it's worth the extra money to have it shipped. This is the only item I use that isn't sourced locally.

http://www.neemresource.com/


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Good advise imo! Nothing compares to the Ahimsa products! I have both Ahimsa Neem and Karanja meal coming in tomorrow. One of those ingredients I just won't grow without. I love their karanja oil also.

Peace!
P-
 
greasemonkeymann

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
Pattahabi said:
Good advise imo! Nothing compares to the Ahimsa products! I have both Ahimsa Neem and Karanja meal coming in tomorrow. One of those ingredients I just won't grow without. I love their karanja oil also.

Peace!
P-
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does karanja meal have any benefits different than neem? I've read people making a tea out of it and using it for a foliar spray to help keep mites away? I haven't smelled it, does it smell weird like neem?
 
Pattahabi

Pattahabi

Well-Known Member
greasemonkeymann said:
does karanja meal have any benefits different than neem? I've read people making a tea out of it and using it for a foliar spray to help keep mites away? I haven't smelled it, does it smell weird like neem?
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Scientists have yet to figure out all of the compounds in neem and karanja, but I have been told for our purposes they are interchangable. Karanja is not as pungent as neem, and I like the karanja oil better then neem for foliar applications.


P-
 
greasemonkeymann

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
Pattahabi said:
Scientists have yet to figure out all of the compounds in neem and karanja, but I have been told for our purposes they are interchangable. Karanja is not as pungent as neem, and I like the karanja oil better then neem for foliar applications.


P-
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I think I need to get me some, give it a whirl... Hate neem oil.... smelly..
 
cannakis

cannakis

Well-Known Member
yep so definitely making my own base with what i have and hot compost it for 30 days or so... once it smells fresh and the earthworms have moved in.

Using hot composted manure, basically saw dust bedding... With sand, clay, chopped hay, forest mould, hopefully fresh local sea weed, crushed oyster shells, cow manure, alfalfa, kelp, maybe neem... Humic and fulvic acid, lime and gypsum, blue granite, blood and bone meal, charcoal soaked in nitrogen tea so not to drain the soils nitro, and dry molasses which is soy meal sprayed with molasses.

I will provide my exact measurements in a couple days once I sit down and work it out. Sorry no earthworm castings only because its like $25 for 20lbs which is just something I do Not have... I will be making my own worm bin though and use that $25 to buy my Own worms and make fresh earthworm castings.
 
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cannakis

cannakis

Well-Known Member
okay so my soil receipt is...

1gallon forest mould,
" clay,
" sand,
" cow manure,
3gl hot composted saw dust manure,
.5" wood ash,
5cups rich earth humate,
10" dry molasses,
.5" bone meal
" blood "

And I believe that is All... And I will add my previous hot Well amended soils to this...
 
greasemonkeymann

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
cannakis said:
okay so my soil receipt is...

1gallon forest mould,
" clay,
" sand,
" cow manure,
3gl hot composted saw dust manure,
.5" wood ash,
5cups rich earth humate,
10" dry molasses,
.5" bone meal
" blood "

And I believe that is All... And I will add my previous hot Well amended soils to this...
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All right... i'm confused.. didn't you already make this soil and it pissed off your plants?
cannakis said:
yep so definitely making my own base with what i have and hot compost it for 30 days or so... once it smells fresh and the earthworms have moved in.

Using hot composted manure, basically saw dust bedding... With sand, clay, chopped hay, forest mould, hopefully fresh local sea weed, crushed oyster shells, cow manure, alfalfa, kelp, maybe neem... Humic and fulvic acid, lime and gypsum, blue granite, blood and bone meal, charcoal soaked in nitrogen tea so not to drain the soils nitro, and dry molasses which is soy meal sprayed with molasses.

I will provide my exact measurements in a couple days once I sit down and work it out. Sorry no earthworm castings only because its like $25 for 20lbs which is just something I do Not have... I will be making my own worm bin though and use that $25 to buy my Own worms and make fresh earthworm castings.
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I don't mean to be a dick, but I've already given you advice as to why you are going to have problems with this...
Good luck, i'm sorta thinkin my advice is falling on deaf ears..
 
cannakis

cannakis

Well-Known Member
greasemonkeymann said:
All right... i'm confused.. didn't you already make this soil and it pissed off your plants?

I don't mean to be a dick, but I've already given you advice as to why you are going to have problems with this...
Good luck, i'm sorta thinkin my advice is falling on deaf ears..
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no my first soil is the one with All the extra ammendments On Top of already good nutrient rich soil. soil receipt advice has pretty much Exactly what i did the first and second time... so im taking that hot soil and cutting it into the average Good Soil listed above. i have definitely taken your advice, just using different materials like forest mould for peat, sand for pearlite... the dry molasses is according to ratios of actual people who use dry molasses in farming and gardening. And rich earth is all my minerals.
 
cannakis

cannakis

Well-Known Member
greasemonkeymann said:
All right... i'm confused.. didn't you already make this soil and it pissed off your plants?

I don't mean to be a dick, but I've already given you advice as to why you are going to have problems with this...
Good luck, i'm sorta thinkin my advice is falling on deaf ears..
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Imay Not do the blood and bone bbut maybe... Because supposedly hot composting removes Lots of nitrogen...
Also I don't know if you read, but the girls Are doing Much better and especially in regular light look perfect... I wonder if it had more to do with Ph alkaline as fuck and Contrast of hps... And it was just hot for fresh young girls, now they are accustomed.
 
cannakis

cannakis

Well-Known Member
greasemonkeymann said:
All right... i'm confused.. didn't you already make this soil and it pissed off your plants?

I don't mean to be a dick, but I've already given you advice as to why you are going to have problems with this...
Good luck, i'm sorta thinkin my advice is falling on deaf ears..
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Haha the second quote is definitely what I did a while back for the second run... Before you gave the advice... I Am not adding Most of the ingredients listed in the second quote you listed.
 
greasemonkeymann

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
cannakis said:
Haha the second quote is definitely what I did a while back for the second run... Before you gave the advice... I Am not adding Most of the ingredients listed in the second quote you listed.
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im just confused, because it sounded like you hadn't used this recipe prior, and then at the same time there are other threads with already growing them in this mix, so I wasn't sure what was going on.
 
cannakis

cannakis

Well-Known Member
greasemonkeymann said:
im just confused, because it sounded like you hadn't used this recipe prior, and then at the same time there are other threads with already growing them in this mix, so I wasn't sure what was going on.
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no i have not used Any of the hot composted saw dust manure, Or forest mould... at all.
 
cannakis

cannakis

Well-Known Member
greasemonkeymann said:
I think i'm still confused...
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I have Not used the above recipe At all.! No sand, no clay, no hot compost, no.forest mould. Only pro mix mycho with LOTS of extras like oyster shell, alfalfa cubes which is just pressed hay a bunch of it, lime gypsum, rocks, rye grass, bagged ewc and cowmanure, humic fulvic acid, blood bone kelp meal, lots and lots! So the new soil receipt is Completely different than the last.

And I Am mixing the old hot soil With the new batch because the soil is not bad Just Hot and High.! With the current girls though I Just mixed 1.5:1 forest mould to hot soil. Until the new soil is ready and needed.
 
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