With Democrats like these who needs Republicans?

ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Isn't there truth in what both of you are saying?

I totally agree that TO SOCIETY, that liberal arts education is worth the investment not because all of the students will produce enough value to pay for the education, rather because some of those students will completely out perform everybody else and produce enough to pay for thousands of students education. Those that don't out perform and are stuck with tens of thousands in student loans will not benefit economically from that education. I believe that a good education provides other than economic returns in the form of richer lives, produce better educated children with better prospects than if their parents had not gotten that higher education. Also a well educated work force might make better decisions a the polls. That education that cost $115k was probably worth it but saddling a person who is just starting out in life with that debt is not good for the person or society. We need to fix that.

I read where you criticized people who get a degree as morons. (staring at you wondering how you could be so wrong)

The problem is how we finance education, not whether or not a higher educated population is worth the cost, because in sum, tangible and intangible benefits most certainly do balance out for our society as a whole.

I admire Denmark's system where deserving students go to school tuition free, have free housing and a stipend.

Regarding Biden's so-called evil acts about bankruptcy, in tty's article. If one reads that article, they would see that it was more about closing loopholes in our bankruptcy laws that make it too easy to run up debt and walk away from it. That bit about student loans is just a throw-in to get those susceptible to histrionic melt downs excited. Federal student loans were always nearly impossible to walk away from. Biden just maintained that stricture, he didn't create it.
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Just one percent of student loans were discharged through bankruptcy before the whole 'ending student loan abuse' Juggernaut got started. So where was this problem?

In the publicity campaigns of the banksters, near as I can tell.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
When people signed up for those loans they signed up for them with that on their contract. In that regard, Taco meat is correct. I think the whole means of financing higher ed by ever increasing tuition and truly out of control costs is wrong. I think we should have a debate about writing off student loans and that this society would be better off if we as a society wrote off loans made for tuition and education expenses. I think long term we should maybe have a higher ed system filled with deserving students that get a free ride through college.

But the fact remains, they signed up for it. It's not up to them whether or not to honor the terms.
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This conveniently ignores the fact that actual spending on educational services has dropped below 10% of the budget for the average University.

So we're making debt slaves out of middle class students to pay for fancy building, new football stadiums and exorbitant salaries for administrators- and people like you and @TacoMac think there's nothing wrong with it?

America is morally and ethically bankrupt and attitudes like this are what make it so.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
see4 said:
I want for you to be on the right side of things, and sometimes you are. But much of the time you aren't.

And what's with this Biden fetish as of late? This is like the 4th or 5th time I've seen you mention him. Are you already creating doubt in a potential 2020 election?

You should read the bill that he endorsed. He wants to not have bankruptcy eliminate student debt. How are you taking issue with that? The student attended the school knowing the price of tuition and agreed to pay at a later date for the education.

Don't be a Bernie baby and expect everything in life to be free.
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Bankruptcy court doesn't just blindly let people walk away from their dents, do why should students not even get that much attention?

You've failed to explain why student loans are a special case.

I'm using this as an example to show that Joe Biden is NOT an advocate for the average American, and that instead he's firmly in the side of the banks. I don't want someone like that in office; we've had far too many of their kind already and our nation's economic situation has greatly suffered because of it.
 
TacoMac

TacoMac

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
This conveniently ignores the fact that actual spending on educational services has dropped below 10% of the budget for the average University.
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Idiot. Again.

I swear, you are without doubt the dumbest individual I've come across. As much shit as you post, and as much as you're proven COMPLETLEY wrong EVERY time, one would think you'd be too embarrassed, have at least SOME sort of pride or self esteem, and either stop posting or at least research your bullshit before you post it. (Which of course would have the effect of you not posting 90% of your bullshit.)

Colleges are not spending less on education. At all. One bit.

What has happened, especially since the great recession, is that all the state and federal funding has been reduced (in some cases, drastically) and that has caused colleges to raise their tuition rates in order to maintain the same services.

The hardest hit state as of 2016 was Arizona, where subsidies to education were cut by 55.6%. That leaves schools like the University of Arizona, Arizona State and others with two choices:
  1. Cut out 60% of it's programs for education.
  2. Increase tuition in order to keep those programs.
That's it. That's the only choice they have.

In the end, however, it is STILL the responsibility of the person SIGNING A SECURED LOAN to pay it back. Period.

Sorry, deadbeat. You don't get a free ride on the taxpayers. Get used to it.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
TacoMac said:
Idiot. Again.

I swear, you are without doubt the dumbest individual I've come across. As much shit as you post, and as much as you're proven COMPLETLEY wrong EVERY time, one would think you'd be too embarrassed, have at least SOME sort of pride or self esteem, and either stop posting or at least research your bullshit before you post it. (Which of course would have the effect of you not posting 90% of your bullshit.)

Colleges are not spending less on education. At all. One bit.

What has happened, especially since the great recession, is that all the state and federal funding has been reduced (in some cases, drastically) and that has caused colleges to raise their tuition rates in order to maintain the same services.

The hardest hit state as of 2016 was Arizona, where subsidies to education were cut by 55.6%. That leaves schools like the University of Arizona, Arizona State and others with two choices:
  1. Cut out 60% of it's programs for education.
  2. Increase tuition in order to keep those programs.
That's it. That's the only choice they have.

In the end, however, it is STILL the responsibility of the person SIGNING A SECURED LOAN to pay it back. Period.

Sorry, deadbeat. You don't get a free ride on the taxpayers. Get used to it.
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You completely missed the boat. The average University spends less than 10% of its budget on actually teaching students, as measured by professor salaries.

For someone so educated, you sure are stupid.
 
rkymtnman

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
The average University spends less than 10% of its budget on actually teaching students, as measured by professor salaries.
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i agree with you on that point but what about all the other costs involved? classrooms, buildings, labs, equipment, etc.

think about how much a simple umbrella liability insurance policy to cover 20000 mostly underage and alcohol fueled students costs per year?
 
twostrokenut

twostrokenut

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
This conveniently ignores the fact that actual spending on educational services has dropped below 10% of the budget for the average University.

So we're making debt slaves out of middle class students to pay for fancy building, new football stadiums and exorbitant salaries for administrators- and people like you and @TacoMac think there's nothing wrong with it?

America is morally and ethically bankrupt and attitudes like this are what make it so.
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it's a contract. are we to beleive that someone accepted to college can't read a contract? just like we did when people pretended not to know what an ARM or a balloon payment was? if youre saying we have a precedent of writing large sums off on the taxpayers so why not this too....thats a solid argument.

but the morality of it you are invoking doesn't go past the initial contract agreement. and that is collateral for our defecit spending. that contract is in your wallet and in title 12 of the US code. there's another contract in title 30 we should be using since morality seems to be the root issue here for most on most political issues.

if it's an issue of private schools spending of public funds....then cut the public funding. I fail to see how you don't see this as yet another example of crony capitalism between government and a "corporation" that being the college's misappropriation of funds.
 
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twostrokenut

twostrokenut

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
Bankruptcy court doesn't just blindly let people walk away from their dents, do why should students not even get that much attention?

You've failed to explain why student loans are a special case.

I'm using this as an example to show that Joe Biden is NOT an advocate for the average American, and that instead he's firmly in the side of the banks. I don't want someone like that in office; we've had far too many of their kind already and our nation's economic situation has greatly suffered because of it.
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ah so politicians on the banks side have to bounce, but keep the banks right?

so instead of curing the disease we need politicians to use the disease for the greater good....
 
TacoMac

TacoMac

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
You completely missed the boat. The average University spends less than 10% of its budget on actually teaching students, as measured by professor salaries.
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You're such a damned idiot. Teachers salaries are the cheapest part of the whole deal, you moron.

The average college professor at a top end school makes $118,000 per year.

Do you have any freaking idea how much it costs to heat and cool an entire dorm for a year? Or how much an entire police force costs to run? Or how much insurance coverage you have to have?

The expense of a major university is in it's buildings, operations, security, and public safety. The professors and staff are the cheapest part of it all.

That's like saying that McDonald's spends less than 10% of it's money on food because their employees average 10 bucks an hour at best.

Idiot.
 
twostrokenut

twostrokenut

Well-Known Member
TacoMac said:
You're such a damned idiot. Teachers salaries are the cheapest part of the whole deal, you moron.

The average college professor at a top end school makes $118,000 per year.

Do you have any freaking idea how much it costs to heat and cool an entire dorm for a year? Or how much an entire police force costs to run? Or how much insurance coverage you have to have?

The expense of a major university is in it's buildings, operations, security, and public safety. The professors and staff are the cheapest part of it all.

That's like saying that McDonald's spends less than 10% of it's money on food because their employees average 10 bucks an hour at best.

Idiot.
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so what's the solution then? unleash the full market burden of subsidies slowly or fully, or double down on the subsidy problem slowly or fully, or continue to pretend to walk the line?
 
see4

see4

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
Bankruptcy court doesn't just blindly let people walk away from their dents, do why should students not even get that much attention?

You've failed to explain why student loans are a special case.

I'm using this as an example to show that Joe Biden is NOT an advocate for the average American, and that instead he's firmly in the side of the banks. I don't want someone like that in office; we've had far too many of their kind already and our nation's economic situation has greatly suffered because of it.
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You'll need to rewrite that, much of it doesn't make sense.

I assume you meant, "...away from their debts" -- in which you would be correct. The remainder of that thought makes no sense. It's not even a reasonable assumption.

I failed to explain why student loans are a special case? What are on earth are you talking about? First you never asked me to explain why student loans are a "special case", and if you did I would have promptly replied that they are not. They are a federal loan debt with very low interest that allow for deferment that should be repaid. I personally think that all loans should be repaid, no matter the origination. However, in the "special case" of student loans, the originator is usually the federal government, hence the tax payers.

This example show explicitly why Biden is for the average American. He doesn't want tax payers paying for student loans that never get repaid. That would be like spending taxes on wars we don't need to be in.

C'mon man, you're smarter than this.
 
see4

see4

Well-Known Member
twostrokenut said:
so what's the solution then? unleash the full market burden of subsidies slowly or fully, or double down on the subsidy problem slowly or fully, or continue to pretend to walk the line?
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Explain what you mean, "full market burden of subsidies"
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
TacoMac said:
You're such a damned idiot. Teachers salaries are the cheapest part of the whole deal, you moron.

The average college professor at a top end school makes $118,000 per year.

Do you have any freaking idea how much it costs to heat and cool an entire dorm for a year? Or how much an entire police force costs to run? Or how much insurance coverage you have to have?

The expense of a major university is in it's buildings, operations, security, and public safety. The professors and staff are the cheapest part of it all.

That's like saying that McDonald's spends less than 10% of it's money on food because their employees average 10 bucks an hour at best.

Idiot.
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You'd make a great University President.

I just wouldn't want to be on the hook for the bills you'd run up.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
see4 said:
You'll need to rewrite that, much of it doesn't make sense.

I assume you meant, "...away from their debts" -- in which you would be correct. The remainder of that thought makes no sense. It's not even a reasonable assumption.

I failed to explain why student loans are a special case? What are on earth are you talking about? First you never asked me to explain why student loans are a "special case", and if you did I would have promptly replied that they are not. They are a federal loan debt with very low interest that allow for deferment that should be repaid. I personally think that all loans should be repaid, no matter the origination. However, in the "special case" of student loans, the originator is usually the federal government, hence the tax payers.

This example show explicitly why Biden is for the average American. He doesn't want tax payers paying for student loans that never get repaid. That would be like spending taxes on wars we don't need to be in.

C'mon man, you're smarter than this.
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Student loans AREN'T a special case- except for their complete exemption from and ineligibility for bankruptcy protection.

I'm arguing that's wrong.
 
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