Would Donald Trump win an election today?

vostok

Well-Known Member

Would Donald Trump win a presidential election again today? Five experts - and a bookmaker - have their say.

There are many words to describe the 12 months since Mr Trump was elected.

Smooth is not one of them.

Mr Trump won despite getting almost three million fewer votes than Hillary Clinton.

Since then, there have been sackings, spats with NFL players, and sabre-rattling with North Korea.

His approval rating has fallen, and a special counsel is investigating the election itself.

But his supporters say a booming economy and improved border security prove they were right to take a gamble on an outsider.

So would the president win again now?


Verdict 1: Trump is in trouble

After shocking the world in November 2016, Mr Trump sent Allan Lichtman a handwritten note.

"Professor - congrats - good call," it said.

The note was written on a print-out of a Washington Post article from 23 September 2016.


In the article, Professor Lichtman said that - despite what most experts thought

- Mr Trump was heading for the White House.

For the ninth presidential election in a row, he called it right. So how would

Mr Trump do in a hypothetical election today?

"There are probably enough negative keys to predict his defeat," says Professor Lichtman,

who teaches at American University.

The professor uses 13 "keys" to predict elections. They focus on the incumbent party,

and cover the economy, scandal, the candidates' charisma, and other areas.

It is "very difficult" to call an early, hypothetical election, Professor Lichtman says.

For example: one of his "keys" is the mid-term elections, which haven't happened yet.

But he says things aren't looking good for the president, with a lack of significant achievements

and "scandals piling up", although the economy is currently a positive.

Mr Trump himself is also a drag on his chances, he says.

"The very, very negative personal ratings would count against him."

The professor also downplays the importance of his opponent.

"Only one of my 13 keys has anything to do with the opposing candidate," he says.

He thinks the scandals are so great, he wrote a book predicting Mr Trump's impeachment.

Does he stand by that?

"You bet I'm standing by it," he says.


They gambled on Trump - did it pay off?

Verdict 2: Trump would beat Clinton, but could lose to a different Democrat
The Trafalgar Group - a small polling firm from Atlanta, Georgia - didn't just forecast Trump's win.

They forecast the margin.

So, one year on, how would a rematch go?

"If it's the same match-up, I don't think there's any question,"

says Robert Cahaly, the group's senior strategist.

"Trump would win again."


President Trump criticised footballers who kneeled during the national anthem

Trafalgar has been "in the field" in 12 states this year, and always measures Trump's approval.

"Trump is still doing things that energise the people who brought him to the White House,"

says Mr Cahaly. Such as?

"The NFL thing. Anyone who thinks the NFL thing has hurt Trump among the people

who won the swing states is completely crazy."

But what about the Russian links? The special counsel indicting Mr Trump's former campaign chairman?

"There are strong Russian connections with Hillary now," he says.

"The idea there's something fishy going on with Hillary, if nothing else,

has counter-balanced any accusation against Trump."

But there is a caveat.

"My personal opinion has always been the Republican Party

was very lucky Joe Biden wasn't the nominee.

"He appeals to the same demographic as Trump.

It would have been a battle royal in Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Michigan."

Verdict 3: Don't rule out another Trump victory

US President Donald Trump: The political survivor?
Since 20 January, Gallup has carried out a daily poll, asking Americans

whether they approve of the job the president is doing.

The numbers aren't great.

From June, Mr Trump's approval rating has usually been below 40%.

On 29 October, it was just 33%.

But, says Frank Newport, Gallup's editor-in-chief, that doesn't mean he would lose a hypothetical election.

"He may be trending down a little, but if you look at the big picture from March or so, there's not a dramatic change," he says.

Gallup also tracked Mr Trump's popularity before the election. "He's unpopular now and he was unpopular then," says Mr Newport.

"He lost the popular vote (in 2016) and he managed to squeak in the electoral college.

"I wouldn't rule out the possibility, with the same opponent, he could pull that off again."

Mr Newport, however, will not put his neck on the line.

"I absolutely would not say he would win," says Mr Newport. "I neither confirm nor deny."

Verdict 4: The Democrats need someone special to beat Trump

Helmut Norpoth - a political science professor at Stony Brook University in New York

- also forecast Mr Trump's win in 2016.

"If you look at his approval rating, it's abysmal," he says.

"It's the worst any president has had [at this stage in his presidency]. It looks like a long shot

- but it was a long shot for him to win in the first place."

So - in a hypothetical election against Hillary - who would he put his money on?

"I would bet that he would win again," he says. "He would beat her again."

Like Robert Cahaly from the Trafalgar Group, he thinks a different Democrat

could have a better chance. But he doesn't know who that might be.

"I think Democrats don't realise what kind of a special candidate they

had in Barack Obama," he says.

"They had Bill Clinton, they had Obama, but these guys don't come around every year.

I don't know who, at this point, would have that kind of appeal."


Verdict 5: Trump would beat Clinton, but not Joe Biden

The answer to Professor Norpoth's question, says Professor Barbara Perry,

might be the previous vice-president.

"If tomorrow we put Donald Trump up against Joe Biden, I think Joe Biden would win,

" says Professor Perry, the director of presidential studies at the University of Virginia's Miller Center.

The problem with that plan, she says, is that Mr Biden will be 77 when the 2020 election is due.

So if Mr Trump faced Mrs Clinton tomorrow?

"I would say, against Hillary, he would win," she says.

"His win (in 2016) was multi-causal of course. But what ultimately put him over the top

was the Hillary factor in those three states - Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin."



Verdict 6: Trump would beat Hillary - so Democrats need to think
differently

On 18 October last year - almost three weeks before the election

- Irish bookmaker Paddy Power was sure of the result. So sure, in fact, they paid out early.

Sadly for them, they called it wrong: they paid out on Hillary.

Their mistake cost them $4.5m. Since then, they've appointed a Head of Trump Betting, Joe Lee.

"On election day last year, Trump went in as a 4/1 underdog," he says.

"That more or less gave him a 20% chance. If we were going to market again,

tomorrow or next week, we'd probably be closer to 50-50."

Trump has been strong on terrorism in the last few days, and on other topics

that resonate with his core supporters, he says.

So, in the hypothetical election - Trump v Hillary part two

- where would this bookmaker place his money?

"Oh, I'd absolutely go with Trump," he says. "No question or doubt about it."

Like the professors and pollsters, Paddy Power thinks Mr Trump's chances

are "all down to the calibre of candidate the Democrats roll out".

The bookmaker has taken money on - among others - Mark Zuckerberg and

Oprah Winfrey, while the Hawaiian congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard has been backed into 20/1.

For now, though, Mr Trump is calling the shots.

The bad news for the president?

Paddy Power has him 5/4 to be impeached

- down from 9/4 before the special counsel's indictments.

(http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41839706)
 
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gonnagro

Well-Known Member

Would Donald Trump win a presidential election again today? Five experts - and a bookmaker - have their say.

There are many words to describe the 12 months since Mr Trump was elected.

Smooth is not one of them.

Mr Trump won despite getting almost three million fewer votes than Hillary Clinton.

Since then, there have been sackings, spats with NFL players, and sabre-rattling with North Korea.

His approval rating has fallen, and a special counsel is investigating the election itself.

But his supporters say a booming economy and improved border security prove they were right to take a gamble on an outsider.

So would the president win again now?


Verdict 1: Trump is in trouble

After shocking the world in November 2016, Mr Trump sent Allan Lichtman a handwritten note.

"Professor - congrats - good call," it said.

The note was written on a print-out of a Washington Post article from 23 September 2016.


In the article, Professor Lichtman said that - despite what most experts thought

- Mr Trump was heading for the White House.

For the ninth presidential election in a row, he called it right. So how would

Mr Trump do in a hypothetical election today?

"There are probably enough negative keys to predict his defeat," says Professor Lichtman,

who teaches at American University.

The professor uses 13 "keys" to predict elections. They focus on the incumbent party,

and cover the economy, scandal, the candidates' charisma, and other areas.

It is "very difficult" to call an early, hypothetical election, Professor Lichtman says.

For example: one of his "keys" is the mid-term elections, which haven't happened yet.

But he says things aren't looking good for the president, with a lack of significant achievements

and "scandals piling up", although the economy is currently a positive.

Mr Trump himself is also a drag on his chances, he says.

"The very, very negative personal ratings would count against him."

The professor also downplays the importance of his opponent.

"Only one of my 13 keys has anything to do with the opposing candidate," he says.

He thinks the scandals are so great, he wrote a book predicting Mr Trump's impeachment.

Does he stand by that?

"You bet I'm standing by it," he says.


They gambled on Trump - did it pay off?

Verdict 2: Trump would beat Clinton, but could lose to a different Democrat
The Trafalgar Group - a small polling firm from Atlanta, Georgia - didn't just forecast Trump's win.

They forecast the margin.

So, one year on, how would a rematch go?

"If it's the same match-up, I don't think there's any question,"

says Robert Cahaly, the group's senior strategist.

"Trump would win again."


President Trump criticised footballers who kneeled during the national anthem

Trafalgar has been "in the field" in 12 states this year, and always measures Trump's approval.

"Trump is still doing things that energise the people who brought him to the White House,"

says Mr Cahaly. Such as?

"The NFL thing. Anyone who thinks the NFL thing has hurt Trump among the people

who won the swing states is completely crazy."

But what about the Russian links? The special counsel indicting Mr Trump's former campaign chairman?

"There are strong Russian connections with Hillary now," he says.

"The idea there's something fishy going on with Hillary, if nothing else,

has counter-balanced any accusation against Trump."

But there is a caveat.

"My personal opinion has always been the Republican Party

was very lucky Joe Biden wasn't the nominee.

"He appeals to the same demographic as Trump.

It would have been a battle royal in Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Michigan."

Verdict 3: Don't rule out another Trump victory

US President Donald Trump: The political survivor?
Since 20 January, Gallup has carried out a daily poll, asking Americans

whether they approve of the job the president is doing.

The numbers aren't great.

From June, Mr Trump's approval rating has usually been below 40%.

On 29 October, it was just 33%.

But, says Frank Newport, Gallup's editor-in-chief, that doesn't mean he would lose a hypothetical election.

"He may be trending down a little, but if you look at the big picture from March or so, there's not a dramatic change," he says.

Gallup also tracked Mr Trump's popularity before the election. "He's unpopular now and he was unpopular then," says Mr Newport.

"He lost the popular vote (in 2016) and he managed to squeak in the electoral college.

"I wouldn't rule out the possibility, with the same opponent, he could pull that off again."

Mr Newport, however, will not put his neck on the line.

"I absolutely would not say he would win," says Mr Newport. "I neither confirm nor deny."

Verdict 4: The Democrats need someone special to beat Trump

Helmut Norpoth - a political science professor at Stony Brook University in New York

- also forecast Mr Trump's win in 2016.

"If you look at his approval rating, it's abysmal," he says.

"It's the worst any president has had [at this stage in his presidency]. It looks like a long shot

- but it was a long shot for him to win in the first place."

So - in a hypothetical election against Hillary - who would he put his money on?

"I would bet that he would win again," he says. "He would beat her again."

Like Robert Cahaly from the Trafalgar Group, he thinks a different Democrat

could have a better chance. But he doesn't know who that might be.

"I think Democrats don't realise what kind of a special candidate they

had in Barack Obama," he says.

"They had Bill Clinton, they had Obama, but these guys don't come around every year.

I don't know who, at this point, would have that kind of appeal."


Verdict 5: Trump would beat Clinton, but not Joe Biden

The answer to Professor Norpoth's question, says Professor Barbara Perry,

might be the previous vice-president.

"If tomorrow we put Donald Trump up against Joe Biden, I think Joe Biden would win,

" says Professor Perry, the director of presidential studies at the University of Virginia's Miller Center.

The problem with that plan, she says, is that Mr Biden will be 77 when the 2020 election is due.

So if Mr Trump faced Mrs Clinton tomorrow?

"I would say, against Hillary, he would win," she says.

"His win (in 2016) was multi-causal of course. But what ultimately put him over the top

was the Hillary factor in those three states - Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin."



Verdict 6: Trump would beat Hillary - so Democrats need to think
differently

On 18 October last year - almost three weeks before the election

- Irish bookmaker Paddy Power was sure of the result. So sure, in fact, they paid out early.

Sadly for them, they called it wrong: they paid out on Hillary.

Their mistake cost them $4.5m. Since then, they've appointed a Head of Trump Betting, Joe Lee.

"On election day last year, Trump went in as a 4/1 underdog," he says.

"That more or less gave him a 20% chance. If we were going to market again,

tomorrow or next week, we'd probably be closer to 50-50."

Trump has been strong on terrorism in the last few days, and on other topics

that resonate with his core supporters, he says.

So, in the hypothetical election - Trump v Hillary part two

- where would this bookmaker place his money?

"Oh, I'd absolutely go with Trump," he says. "No question or doubt about it."

Like the professors and pollsters, Paddy Power thinks Mr Trump's chances

are "all down to the calibre of candidate the Democrats roll out".

The bookmaker has taken money on - among others - Mark Zuckerberg and

Oprah Winfrey, while the Hawaiian congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard has been backed into 20/1.

For now, though, Mr Trump is calling the shots.

The bad news for the president?

Paddy Power has him 5/4 to be impeached

- down from 9/4 before the special counsel's indictments.

(http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41839706)

Well, assuming the candidates are the same, I certainly hope so. AND I think he would've beaten creepy Biden too!
 

greg nr

Well-Known Member
Depends who he runs against. If it's bernie, he wins. The fissures are too deep and too easy to open.

You partly got an answer last night. He still has supporters, but not as many as he did, and the cross over voters are disgusted and wouldn't support him today. The gop is still going to vote for whomever the party runs.

So if the dems get fractured and disheartened, yes, he can win, and he will be a two term failure.

If the dems finally decide to back the nominee without getting butthurt during the primaries, and they actually turn out to vote, then trump is a one term failure.
 

greg nr

Well-Known Member
ummmm, you realize his entire campaign will be in prison shortly, right?
He can pardon them. Then, any challenges need to go through a torturous appeals process likely all the way to the SCOTUS. Some may be in jeopardy of state courts, but certainly not all. And trump himself likely can't be tried in state court until he leaves office.

And now trump is stacking the us attorneys office in new york with hand picked attorneys from the firm that represents him, so there won't likely be any us charges from that office.

So he will only leave when he loses the next election or after his second term. This house will never impeach him. This senate will never convict him.
 

TacoMac

Well-Known Member
He can pardon them.
For some, that is not going to save them.

For instance, Paul Manafort will go to prison for 20 years no matter what unless he rolls on a lot of people. Yes, Trump can pardon him from Federal charges, but the State of New York can actually file all of the same charges against him except for the Crimes Against the United States charge.

He'll still face 35 years in prison if the State of New York does that...which you can bank on it that they will. They're the ace in the hole in all of this. Trump pardons Manafort, New York files the same charges against him.

Then, it's all over for him, and there will be nothing on earth Trump can do about it.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
He can pardon them. Then, any challenges need to go through a torturous appeals process likely all the way to the SCOTUS. Some may be in jeopardy of state courts, but certainly not all. And trump himself likely can't be tried in state court until he leaves office.

And now trump is stacking the us attorneys office in new york with hand picked attorneys from the firm that represents him, so there won't likely be any us charges from that office.

So he will only leave when he loses the next election or after his second term. This house will never impeach him. This senate will never convict him.
i wouldn't be so sure of any of that.
 

TacoMac

Well-Known Member
I don't think this county will survive another 5 years of Trump. I hope they all go to jail. He makes my skin crawl.
At most, we have another three. If they don't impeach him by the end of 2018, he'll wind up riding out the last two years of his term and he'll lose the election.

He will never in a million years of trying see a second term.
 

Bear420

Well-Known Member
Greg Says He is stacking U.S. Attorney Office. Huh. "Gee whiz," What other Countries in the World Do that ?

Exercised through various mechanisms to ensure that the entity's power remains strong.

Humm Sure Sounds like Dictatorship... Ya Think ?

You're Asking, If IMHO I don't think He could win a spot for the Local Dog Catcher Right Now.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
At most, we have another three. If they don't impeach him by the end of 2018, he'll wind up riding out the last two years of his term and he'll lose the election.

He will never in a million years of trying see a second term.
The same was said before the previous election. His base is passionate, committed, don't care about social equality, believe a host of fake conspiracy theories, lean towards racist and sexist attitudes if not outright racist and sexist, believe that white people experience hardships due to their prejudice against skin color and listen to right wing radio all day long. They make up about 40% of the voting population.

In large swaths of the country, there is no alternative to conservative local sources of news. Also the rural heartland is the homeland of the 40% that I defined above, making most states in this country already committed to returning Trump to office. The electoral college is already in Trump's advantage.

Committed opposition to Trump is not nearly as large, passionate, or unified. Progressives don't have the same propaganda machine that the right has and aren't interested in that anyway.

Only 25% of the people in this country say they are liberal in political ideology compared to 35% of the population who say they are conservative. Meaning liberals have to rely on getting a large majority of the of the population who say they are neither to oust Trump. They have to win in states that vote for conservative politicians in order to win in the electoral college.

I'm not predicting a victory for Trump, I'm just not as certain as you that he can't win in 2020.
 

Huckster79

Well-Known Member
I do think he could win again... if mueller cant pull it off, i hope he can, he certainly could win again against any candidate if he plays it right... for his foolishness he knows how to fight, hes also set the bar so low for himself, if mueller cant get him he either gets us in a war the or waits till last 6 months acts normalish and a bit more presidential, but do a bit to rally the minions... the fickle masses could put him right back in. I hope not but i can see it playing out.

Other option where he wins is by eating away at our republics architecure to where theres no option of him not winning.... its how autocrats happen and we arent out of danger of falling into it till hes gone...
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
I do think he could win again... if mueller cant pull it off, i hope he can, he certainly could win again against any candidate if he plays it right... for his foolishness he knows how to fight, hes also set the bar so low for himself, if mueller cant get him he either gets us in a war the or waits till last 6 months acts normalish and a bit more presidential, but do a bit to rally the minions... the fickle masses could put him right back in. I hope not but i can see it playing out.

Other option where he wins is by eating away at our republics architecure to where theres no option of him not winning.... its how autocrats happen and we arent out of danger of falling into it till hes gone...
I don't think he's going to, I'm just saying we have to show up on voting day because these guys sure do and they are going to vote for Trump no matter what he does in office.
 

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
He can pardon them. Then, any challenges need to go through a torturous appeals process likely all the way to the SCOTUS. Some may be in jeopardy of state courts, but certainly not all. And trump himself likely can't be tried in state court until he leaves office.

And now trump is stacking the us attorneys office in new york with hand picked attorneys from the firm that represents him, so there won't likely be any us charges from that office.

So he will only leave when he loses the next election or after his second term. This house will never impeach him. This senate will never convict him.
and if he's standing by an open window or drinks the tea?:lol:

the russians are missing it..succinyl cholate (sp)
 

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
For some, that is not going to save them.

For instance, Paul Manafort will go to prison for 20 years no matter what unless he rolls on a lot of people. Yes, Trump can pardon him from Federal charges, but the State of New York can actually file all of the same charges against him except for the Crimes Against the United States charge.

He'll still face 35 years in prison if the State of New York does that...which you can bank on it that they will. They're the ace in the hole in all of this. Trump pardons Manafort, New York files the same charges against him.

Then, it's all over for him, and there will be nothing on earth Trump can do about it.
but that's why president pedo has been interviewing judges.
 

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
I do think he could win again... if mueller cant pull it off, i hope he can, he certainly could win again against any candidate if he plays it right... for his foolishness he knows how to fight, hes also set the bar so low for himself, if mueller cant get him he either gets us in a war the or waits till last 6 months acts normalish and a bit more presidential, but do a bit to rally the minions... the fickle masses could put him right back in. I hope not but i can see it playing out.

Other option where he wins is by eating away at our republics architecure to where theres no option of him not winning.... its how autocrats happen and we arent out of danger of falling into it till hes gone...
I don't think he's going to, I'm just saying we have to show up on voting day because these guys sure do and they are going to vote for Trump no matter what he does in office.
he will not win again. yesterday was a referendum on president pedo. it was as easy as showing the fuck up! see Dear Black Voter? now you understand the point- or maybe YOU were the smart ones that forced DNC hand:wink:

it was really WHITE WOMEN who took charge in Virginia, though.

:clap: bravo..simply..bravo! (not sarcasm) where's @_gresh_ when you need him?
 
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