You think you know lighting?

Every single thread I post about a setup I'm designing everyone hits me with criticism.

I am going to do a Sog and harvest a pound every 3 weeks. I am going to use four 400 watts. Now right away you're thinking, why not use two 1000 watts or three 600 watt hps?

Let me explain myself.

I have grown with a 400 and 1000. I have seen 600 in action.

The 1000 watt :
Very bright lights that produce a lot of heat. From 140,000 - 150,000 Lumens from HPS 80,000 - 115,000 for Halide
A wide variety of bulbs for these lights

The 600 watt : The most efficient considering it puts out more Lumens per watt. From 86,000 - 95,000 Lumens Only offered in HPS! Not near as hot as a 1000 watt HPS. Not many different bulbs available compared to 1000 and 600

The 400 watt: Puts out the least amount of heat. Lumens : 50,000 - 58,000

How close you can get the light to your plants will determine how many Lumens they actually receive.

How cool are your lights ?
I am atleast going to water cool the air going through my reflectors. When I can afford it I will water cool my bulbs.
Do you know how much more effective water is at cooling your bulbs then straight up air? Water chillers use less energy then Air Conditioners too!

What else is efficent ? Light movers. They work wonders in even growth, my plants love it. Spreading the light on a track is cheaper then using more lights when it comes to your energy bill.

So If I am using four 400 watt lights for three 3' x 3' flood tables (one square meter) most of my strains are 450-500 per square meter. There are 448 grams in a pound

On light tracks moving each table will recieve two 400 watts at a time.

If I go with one Halide with an amazing spectum of light and one HPS for better flower growth I end up with 86,000 lumens of awesome light. A halide keeps nodes close and makes my stems thicker, HPS gives you fatter buds.

That is 9555 lumens per square ft compared to the suns 10000 I am giving my plants. Speaking of the sun : why do you think I am using a halide and hps ? To try and recreate the sun, yes try.

So using my 400 with water cooling makes it possible to get all my Lumens since my lights are so close to my plants. Using the track saves energy considering I am using less lights.

So how am I wrong with my light setup?

seems like a good setup to me, fuck them people who critisized you

darkdestruction420 said:

seems like a good setup to me, fuck them people who critisized you

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thank you!!!

WOW! i say u got it all figured out bro! So here is some qustions i got fer ya.....1. exactly how do you water cool the lights??? I heard about this method before, but no one has ever explained it to me.... 2. my original set was gonna be a 600HPS inside a tent, (homebox XL, 56" x 56" x 78.75") with an air cooled reflector, (Raidiant 6) via a separate 293 cfm in-line fan via insulated ducting, (long duct run, [15'-20'] with another in-line booster fan to help cool air in that duct-run to my attic in garage) a 7000btu 1 tube portable A/C, [to keep garage cool and supply intake air for lights & intake air for tent,{passive intake} and a 409cfm fan with a can 66 cabon filter,[re-circulating, not venting..ie;scrubbing] if I was to stay with this set-up, i would love to learn that water cooled light set-up...But if not, here is alternate set-up.... 3. everything above mentioned will be included except for the lighting set-up...No 600HPS, No Reflector, No Ballast, No fan for the light....What I was thinking of using is 2 4' 8 bulb T5 HO Floresents, (16 bulbs total!)...with mixed specturm, ie; 6500k cool blue & 3000k warm red...ea bulb is 5000 lumens for a total of 80,000 lumens which is equivilent to a 600HPS and also means I could have lights closer to plants, just like you said....Now my main reason for this set-up is "LOW HEAT EMITTING" from grow tent and/or grow room and trust me where I live those fucking heli's fly over everyday, so I guess u can say I'm A bit worried about FLIR and starting my grow where I am at currently..... So my qustion to you is; Can this set-up work as effiecntly as a regular 600HPS light? and/or would the HPS via being water cooled be better???! Thanks and sorry for the short essay....BTW, I'm gonna be growin autos, 20-25 of them in 3gal bags..

Water cooled lights

There are two ways to do it.

1.) Cooling the air with water
This system uses a heat exchanger just like a radiator in a car. It was an inlet and outlet. You hook up plumbing to a pump in a reservoir with a chiller to cool the water.

2.) Cooling the bulb with water
This system uses a glass cylinder shaped case that holds your recirculated water cooled by a chiller. This glass case surrounds the bulb with ice cold water. The case slides into your reflector or comes built in. This is way more effective then anything other way to cool your lights.

How many watts will your T5s use vs your 600 hps ? I use two T5's in my veg room and they are amazing. They have a built in ballasts and are very cool. You would still need to cool the air in the summertime with T5's

penotration! iv used muti light set ups on my 6 arm juputer light mover 400w / 600w/ 1000w and a mix of all 3.

im not in no way knocking what you are doing but what i have found 400w lamps just dont grow buds as fat as the 600s or 1000s the light is not strong enough to penotrate the canopy. ok you can get 2 x 400w lamps closer than a 1000w or a 600w, but the 400w is coming from 2 sources and not 1 source. the penotation is where the 400w lets it down. ok lets talk about cooling lights so we can get then close to the plant canopy lets take a look at the 600w in a cool tube. at 1 foot its banging down 85000-105000 lumens depending on bulb and balast you use. i can get a 600w in a cool tube with in 8" of the plant canopy without burning the plants thats almost half the 1 foot that shines 85-105000 lumens so its going to be shining down around 170000-201000 lumans the 400w is putting out 50000 lumans at 1 foot above the plants get that down to 6" the plants are getting 100000 lumans get it down to 3" 150000 you aint going to get it any closer than that what light is putting down more lumans?

here are 2x 600s in cool tubes 8" above plants i could get them closer but the plants would get light burn so the extra hight of the bulb sgives a bigger covarage over the rest of the room which you would lose out on if you use 400s


by the way i sold all my 400w systems once i saw what a 600w could do although i like 1000w better they do grow buds fat as your thighs 400s grow them as fat as your thumbs

with 2 light systems each carrying 8 bulbs, and each bulb is 54watts that would equal out to 864watts.... and yeah, I know i would still have to cool the air with the T5's in the summer time, that's what the air conditioner is for...also will be using 2 6" oscallating fans for air circulation in side the tent....when u say; "cool", do u mean they run real cool??? if so, what was your temps like with them??

I still don't understand #1 can u break it down for me,,,ie; the heat exhausted from my 600 would be vented to attic via insulated ducting.....Also, do u have any pictures of any of these set-up's?? [or can u draw a rough skecth] I'm not a dummy but a picture is worth a thousand words....for #2, they sell refectors like that? who sells them?? or how do u make it? I still cant picture it....

sativaplanet420 said:

Water cooled lights

There are two ways to do it.

1.) Cooling the air with water
This system uses a heat exchanger just like a radiator in a car. It was an inlet and outlet. You hook up plumbing to a pump in a reservoir with a chiller to cool the water.

2.) Cooling the bulb with water
This system uses a glass cylinder shaped case that holds your recirculated water cooled by a chiller. This glass case surrounds the bulb with ice cold water. The case slides into your reflector or comes built in. This is way more effective then anything other way to cool your lights.

How many watts will your T5s use vs your 600 hps ? I use two T5's in my veg room and they are amazing. They have a built in ballasts and are very cool. You would still need to cool the air in the summertime with T5's

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uptosumpn said:

with 2 light systems each carrying 8 bulbs, and each bulb is 54watts that would equal out to 864watts....

I still don't understand #1 can u break it down for me,,,ie; the heat exhausted from my 600 would be vented to attic via insulated ducting.....Also, do u have any pictures of any of these set-up's?? [or can u draw a rough skecth] I'm not a dummy but a picture is worth a thousand words....for #2, they sell refectors like that? who sells them?? or how do u make it? I still cant picture it....

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water cooled lights >http://www.1-hydroponics.co.uk/grow-lights/water-cooled-600w.htm

Thanks for the link! gonna check it out now!

9inch bigbud said:

water cooled lights >http://www.1-hydroponics.co.uk/grow-lights/water-cooled-600w.htm

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uptosumpn said:

Thanks for the link! gonna check it out now!

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If i was the OP i would go for the 600w it works out cheaper you would not need to by as many bulbs every time you need to replace them.

you would not need to buy as many water cooled reflectors that cost $$$$ and you can get the 600s just as close as the 400s in water cool reflectors and you would get almost 2x the lumans and far beter penotration for a lot less electricity used. i.e a 600w hid uses around 650w and a 400 watt hid uses 450 watts x 2- 900 watts for a little bit more lumans in other words using 900watts to get the same lumans as a 600 watt lamp. 600watts win hands down.

9inch bigbud said:

penotration! iv used muti light set ups on my 6 arm juputer light mover 400w / 600w/ 1000w and a mix of all 3.

im not in no way knocking what you are doing but what i have found 400w lamps just dont grow buds as fat as the 600s or 1000s the light is not strong enough to penotrate the canopy. ok you can get 2 x 400w lamps closer than a 1000w or a 600w, but the 400w is coming from 2 sources and not 1 source. the penotation is where the 400w lets it down. ok lets talk about cooling lights so we can get then close to the plant canopy lets take a look at the 600w in a cool tube. at 1 foot its banging down 85000-105000 lumens depending on bulb and balast you use. i can get a 600w in a cool tube with in 8" of the plant canopy without burning the plants thats almost half the 1 foot that shines 85-105000 lumens so its going to be shining down around 170000-201000 lumans the 400w is putting out 50000 lumans at 1 foot above the plants get that down to 6" the plants are getting 100000 lumans get it down to 3" 150000 you aint going to get it any closer than that what light is putting down more lumans?

here are 2x 600s in cool tubes 8" above plants i could get them closer but the plants would get light burn so the extra hight of the bulb sgives a bigger covarage over the rest of the room which you would lose out on if you use 400s

by the way i sold all my 400w systems once i saw what a 600w could do although i like 1000w better they do grow buds fat as your thighs 400s grow them as fat as your thumbs

Click to expand...

Thats a massive garden. I'm going to be flowering clones and only growing top buds. A 400 watt will penetrate easily the way I will be doing it.

you are absolutley correct!...I did a lil researching since my last post and found a site that sells the water cooled light system and I have a betteer understanding of how they work.....I also found a great alternative on the same website...check it out and tell me what u think....kinf-of-sorta does the same thing, as far as heat is concerned....http://www.growlightexpress.com/wate...anger-306.html

9inch bigbud said:

If i was the OP i would go for the 600w it works out cheaper you would not need to by as many bulbs every time you need to replace them.

you would not need to buy as many water cooled reflectors that cost $$$$ and you can get the 600s just as close as the 400s in water cool reflectors and you would get almost 2x the lumans and far beter penotration for a lot less electricity used. i.e a 600w hid uses around 650w and a 400 watt hid uses 450 watts x 2- 900 watts for a little bit more lumans in other words using 900watts to get the same lumans as a 600 watt lamp. 600watts win hands down.

Click to expand...

sativaplanet420 said:

Thats a massive garden. I'm going to be flowering clones and only growing top buds. A 400 watt will penetrate easily the way I will be doing it.

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even so the more light the bigger the top bud will be under a 600w you will get solid buds 18" top to bottom thick as your forarm under the 400w you will get noware near it.

in SOG you still need strong penotration because the plants are close together you will be cutting a lot more of the bottom off than you need to the more light you give the canopy and deeper the penotration the tighter and more solid the buds will form the thickness of the main cola's will be much bigger under the 600s and the 1000s are somthing else

600w 1 plant every 6" thats 36 plants in 1x1m sq room yeild 750g of 18" mini base ball bats you will be doing well to hit a GPW under 400w in the same size room, if you think you can do better with 400 then by all means iv been there done that and it did not work as good as the 600s and ended up selling the all my 400s if they were that good i would have kept them trust me.

3 x 600 = 285000 lumans
5 x 400 = 270000 lumans

thats 15000 extra lumans for 200w less if you go far the 600s and not for the 400s. i know what id go for every time! and you will get lots more bud!

p.s
each 600w is covering 3x3 feet growing SCROG if i done SOG the buds would be massive! because im growing lots of side branches and not top cola's in that cab
for the same power the room would need 3 x 400w that put down 165000 lumans the 2 x 600w put down 190000 lumans an extra 25000 more for the same power used with better penatration from the 2 points of light and not from 3 points.

uptosumpn said:

you are absolutley correct!...I did a lil researching since my last post and found a site that sells the water cooled light system and I have a betteer understanding of how they work.....I also found a great alternative on the same website...check it out and tell me what u think....kinf-of-sorta does the same thing, as far as heat is concerned....http://www.growlightexpress.com/wate...anger-306.html

Click to expand...

looks good iv never seen it before. if you use a strong fan in the cool tube you will not need to use a water cooled reflector or one of them and a 6" extractor fan is strong enough to cool 3 x 600w lamps and runs at 50w

9inch bigbud said:

even so the more light the bigger the top bud will be under a 600w you will get solid buds 18" top to bottom thick as your forarm under the 400w you will get noware near it.

in SOG you still need strong penotration because the plants are close together you will be cutting a lot more of the bottom off than you need to the more light you give the canopy and deeper the penotration the tighter and more solid the buds will form the thickness of the main cola's will be much bigger under the 600s and the 1000s are somthing else

600w 1 plant every 6" thats 36 plants in 1x1m sq room yeild 750g of 18" mini base ball bats you will be doing well to hit a GPW under 400w in the same size room, if you think you can do better with 400 then by all means iv been there done that and it did not work as good as the 600s and ended up selling the all my 400s if they were that good i would have kept them trust me.

3 x 600 = 285000 lumans
5 x 400 = 270000 lumans

thats 15000 extra lumans for 200w less if you go far the 600s and not for the 400s. i know what id go for every time! and you will get lots more bud!

p.s
each 600w is covering 3x3 feet growing SCROG if i done SOG the buds would be massive! because im growing lots of side branches and not top cola's in that cab
for the same power the room would need 3 x 400w that put down 165000 lumans the 2 x 600w put down 190000 lumans an extra 25000 more for the same power used with better penatration from the 2 points of light and not from 3 points.

Click to expand...

I was just wondering what kind of process would have to be taken to yield 750G dry bud in that small space ? like vegetation stage to flowering ? doesnt need to be too detailed just im thinking of putting together a 5x5 ft grow room and ifeel you have something going here with this light theory

i think it sounds killer, i fuckin love light movers

suav3 said:

I was just wondering what kind of process would have to be taken to yield 750G dry bud in that small space ? like vegetation stage to flowering ? doesnt need to be too detailed just im thinking of putting together a 5x5 ft grow room and ifeel you have something going here with this light theory

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you need all the same clones of a good healthy mother plant take45-50 clones and only use the 36 of the very best i.e 1st to set root veg the clones for 3 days once the roots are 1st seen then in to the flower room I use NFT trays place on the tray and watch them grow cut any thing on the bottom that grows into each other off its usally 3 sets of leaf fromm the bottom up once the streach as stoped you just leave the plants finish off you might want to hang a net over them to help them from falling in to each other because they get top heavy i also lost 50g to bud rot the buds got so thick and tight.

thanks man.. gave me a lil insight that was well needed... sorry i dont know what NFT means.. i just got in this forum a few days ago... not used to all the lingo... also are you describing a hydroponic set up ? because i seen in your pictures you were using soil

yes i use soil but iv just dug out mf NFT trays and will be using them my next grow if you look at the top pic no4 look at the tall cola that is a main cola all the others are lower branches that should give you some idea what 36 of them would look like in 3x3 room even bigger again because all you will be feeding is the main cola and not the side branches.

NFT > nutrient film technique

is there any topics on here that refer to the NFT i would love to get better informed about that.... cause i just aquired 2 600watt HPS... and if your saying that you can make a yield of that size thats more then a pound every month almost even 2.... thats crazy i would never think possible... and do you think two 600watt lamps would be sufficient enough for that space ?