Young Adults Gain Health Insurance under Obamacare

mame

Well-Known Member
Hemlock said:
Obamacare and now a new study shows that 790,000 Ohioans will lose their private health insurance
Hemlock's source said:
The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA) could cut the number of uninsured Ohio residents by 790,000 in 2017, but it also could increase premiums for the 735,000 residents who have individual coverage by more than 55%. .
Reading comprehension.

also,
“This is primarily driven by the estimated health status of the new individual health insurance market and the expansion of covered benefits,” the consultants say.
So prices are going to go up once we include the healthiest group in America into the insurance pool? I found the article you got this info off of, but it doesn't link back to the actual study... What is the methodology here? Universal coverage REDUCES costs in almost every scenario because you're generally adding the younger, more healthy individuals to the insurance pool - lowering the percentage of sick and/or elderly - which should reduce costs, not increase them.

Hm, it seems the problem with this study is that it's "what to expect in 2014", when Obamacare isn't even fully implemented until 2017... :roll: Again, we'll have to wait and see before we can make any credibile cost analysis - maybe a decade or so - because otherwise you're just going to find biased "studies" that only say what they "project" will happen... I could point to the CBO, for example, which came to the conclusion that Obamacare will save money. We'll just have to wait for the actual data before making any further judgements on costs.
 

Hemlock

Well-Known Member
Reading comprehension.

I can do without your insults!

also,
So prices are going to go up once we include the healthiest group in America into the insurance pool? I found the article you got this info off of, but it doesn't link back to the actual study... What is the methodology here? Universal coverage REDUCES costs in almost every scenario because you're generally adding the younger, more healthy individuals to the insurance pool - lowering the percentage of sick and/or elderly - which should reduce costs, not increase them.

Hm, it seems the problem with this study is that it's "what to expect in 2014", when Obamacare isn't even fully implemented until 2017... :roll: Again, we'll have to wait and see before we can make any credibile cost analysis - maybe a decade or so - because otherwise you're just going to find biased "studies" that only say what they "project" will happen... I could point to the CBO, for example, which came to the conclusion that Obamacare will save money. We'll just have to wait for the actual data before making any further judgements on costs.
No disrespect mame but you just don't seem to understand. You can't add that many people to the health care rolls and it cost less. services may come down a little, which I doubt, but the overall cost to taxpayers will be HIGHER taxes to cover the 40,000,000 new people.
 

Hemlock

Well-Known Member
Last week, the Congressional Budget Office released its report on H.R. 2, the House-passed legislation that would fully repeal Obamacare. The takeaway message was that American taxpayers simply cannot afford Obamacare.
CBO’s initial scoring of Obamacare analyzed its effects from 2010 to 2019, including only six years of full implementation, since main spending provisions do not go into effect until 2014. The new document reports on 2012 to 2021, including an additional two years of full implementation. This still fails to show the true 10-year cost of the law, but gets a little closer. Over eight years, the gross cost of Obamacare’s coverage provisions jumps from $938 billion to $1.39 trillion, which includes $677 billion to create a new health entitlement offering generous subsidies to the middle class to purchase health insurance.
It also includes an expansion of Medicaid, which will cost $674 billion. Initially, the federal government will almost entirely fund the expansion, but will pass costs on to the states starting in 2020. This will have serious consequences, as states already face tough choices to tackle mounting deficits. The combined increase in states’ Medicaid costs will be $60 billion. CBO’s initial score showed the Medicaid expansion costing states just $20 billion. The addition of just two extra years increased this number threefold, revealing the crippling effect the expansion will have on state budgets.
Obamacare proponents say the new law cuts the deficit. But the CBO report pulls the mask off the bill and reveals what it really is: a massive tax increase that, on paper at least, is slightly greater than the massive spending hike it also contains. Obamacare thus indisputably represents a massive new burden on current taxpayers and future generations.
Finally, several of Obamacare’s “pay-fors” are unlikely to ever become reality. One example is the excise tax on “Cadillac” health plans, an unpopular change that isn’t supposed to occur until 2018—after President Obama is safely out of office. If the Congress and White House responsible for creating this tax weren’t willing to put it into effect, it is unlikely that future lawmakers will do so. Without the Cadillac tax, Obamacare loses $111 billion of offsets for new spending.
Unsustainable cuts to the Medicare program are also expected to pay for new spending. Both the CBO director and Medicare’s Chief Actuary have warned that these cuts to Medicare provider payments could reduce access to care for seniors and reduce quality of care. Congress’s past behavior proves its hesitance to allow similar changes to the program, so savings within Medicare will likely not materialize.
The reality is that the offsets for Obamacare spending cannot occur without serious negative consequences, and without them, it adds significantly to deficit spending. CBO Director Douglas Elmendorf’s letter to Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan last week stated that repeal would reduce the deficit if these provisions don’t occur.
So the facts are in. Obamacare includes tremendous new levels of federal spending at a time when lawmakers are seeking ways to reduce the unaffordable size of government. It pays for new spending by increasing taxes on the American people, burdening individuals and businesses and putting further strain on the economy. And, as we explain further in recent research, a realistic scoring of Obamacare shows that it is certain to increase deficits.
 

deprave

New Member
Reading comprehension.

also,
So prices are going to go up once we include the healthiest group in America into the insurance pool? I found the article you got this info off of, but it doesn't link back to the actual study... What is the methodology here? Universal coverage REDUCES costs in almost every scenario because you're generally adding the younger, more healthy individuals to the insurance pool - lowering the percentage of sick and/or elderly - which should reduce costs, not increase them.

Hm, it seems the problem with this study is that it's "what to expect in 2014", when Obamacare isn't even fully implemented until 2017... :roll: Again, we'll have to wait and see before we can make any credibile cost analysis - maybe a decade or so - because otherwise you're just going to find biased "studies" that only say what they "project" will happen... I could point to the CBO, for example, which came to the conclusion that Obamacare will save money. We'll just have to wait for the actual data before making any further judgements on costs.
You criticize his "reading comprehension" when you are lacking the common sense here. Id argue that you don't even need to be able to read to see that Obama care would cost us more, an illiterate person could see this. Common sense tells us that Obamacare will increase the cost of healthcare...Obamacare is not Universal healthcare, its an expansion of our current system which obviously increases the cost, the 20k to 30k bracket, typically young people, are still left in the dark. I really don't think its that wild of a prediction to say that Obamacare will increase the cost of healthcare, its just common sense, anyone who has worked with medicaid will tell you this is obvious.
 

deprave

New Member
Infact, when I worked in the ER, I worked with a doctor....this doctor..could not read an analog clock, did not know know where to put the return address on an envelope, and had difficulty with the most basic of arithmetic, bless her heart I later found out that she suffered from a stroke and she was a really sweet person. The point of this story is that even she understood that obamacare wouldn't work and that it would cost us more money. The problems with healthcare and the costs are not addressed with obamacare and that's the problem.
 

deprave

New Member
Furthermore it is widely exaggerated the true number of people that are actually gaining coverage that were not covered before. Theres not a whole lot of them to be honest, it helped a handful of people that had pre-existing conditions(most of which already had private coverage) and it increased the age that you can stay on your parents health insurance...so in sumation....it increased spending and its making the failed system a bigger failure. The most important thing it did I think that is positive is for children with autism.

The week obama care passed I worked in the emergency room interviewing medicaid patients, I found some families with autistic children that would bennifit from it, aside from that I found not one person that would be benefited by Obama care. If you actually get out on the street and interview people about Obamcare you to will find only a few autistic people that are going to benefit, almost like a political stunt, and their not really benefiting that much as they did just fine before.
 

mame

Well-Known Member
The CBO says:
Repealing health care reform will add $230 billion to the deficit over the next decade, leave 32 million fewer people with insurance and lead to higher costs for those who are covered
Again, we can go back and forth linking sources who say what is going to happen but none of this is nearly as reliable as waiting for actual data from real world implementation.

Deprave, "common sense" doesn't count as evidence you'll have to try harder than that to convince me of your argument.
 

deprave

New Member
I should of figured that common sense didn't count for you, sorry about that one. Next time I will link a line graph showing you that clearly 2+2=4, 2+2 does not equal 5, I'm sorry it just doesn't.
 

mame

Well-Known Member
I should of figured that common sense didn't count for you, sorry about that one. Next time I will link a line graph showing you that clearly 2+2=4, 2+2 does not equal 5, I'm sorry it just doesn't.
Well, unfortunately this isn't as simple as 2+2=4 so yes - I'd appreciate some actual evidence of you're going to make claims about the cost of Obamacare.
 

Charlie Ventura

Active Member
mame;6324967 I recently found out I have a stomach ulcer and [COLOR="red" said:
if I didn't have insurance I would still be puking every morning because of the acids,[/COLOR] etc... Even as a generally healthy 22 year old male I get use out of my insurance just fine and while it is fairly expensive it is worth it most of the time (and everytime I start to think I'm wasting my money, I'll get a cavity or I'll break my toe).
So, you're 22 years old and think that you would still be puking every morning if you didn't have insurance? Why? You're aware that doctors take cash, right? I think in a previous post you said that you're a student, correct? Man, if you didn't have insurance and were sick enough to be puking your guts out due to an ulcer, wouldn't it occur to you to go to a hospital emergency room and get treated, then pay later? Or, how about going to your family doctor and working out terms? How about just getting a job and paying for treatment? Jeezes man, there are other answers besides robbing Peter to pay Paul.

 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
Mame's bleeding ulcer was caused by not having insurance, isn't it obvious? Just the fact that he got insurance is what cured him.
 

deprave

New Member
The heart of the problem is all the bureaucracy driving up the cost..going all the way down to the medical equipment..there is tons of companies involved in every case and paperwork...If you visit the ER then your case is going to pass over 100's of peoples desks and who knows how many contractors and third parties..the cost can be driven down with less regulation and the quality of care would actually increase. One reason for this would be that individuals would be more involved in your case and that medical equipment companies would have more competition..another is that nurses and other health professionals live in fear of a lawsuit so they can not provide the best care possible, additionally because of the fear of law suits they have to provide an unnecessary amount of care often as well.

One major thing that could be done very easily is if EVERY program moved to full electronic system, right now even if your system is full electronic you still have to deal with other providers sending out faxes and printing charts to have them files. If you go in with a stubbed toe its a solid ream of paper wasted just for your case.

There really is a ton of waste in the system.

EDIT: Another thing, if "alternative" medicine could be practiced more freely this could save additional money and create more jobs.

If all of this could be reformed then mame's 2,000 dollar ER visit (which is really really cheap actually for uninsured he got a good deal) would of been more like 100$ at best.


I know some liberal is probably going to make some comment and rusty needles or some sort of crazy conspiracy theory, so I will just say in advance...that obviously mal practice should still remain illegal...furthermore, the quality of care would increase if you get Politics out of medicine, bottom line, get politics and government out of medicine its not their place, Doctors and Nurses try to do the best job they can always because peoples lives are at risk and they don't need the government getting in their way.
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
Redistribution of other people's money against their will is extortion / theft.

Obamacare is grounded in theft.
 

WillyBagseed

Active Member
so a VAT of 20% plus a personal income tax of 40% is no where near 50 or 60? Hate to tell ya, but 40 + 20= 60, which is really very very very very close to 60, but yeah you are right, its not very close to 50. ( The UK is where I am getting my info)

The UK is not the best example.......(insert comment about being stuck on an island for hundreds of years, with breeding options limited.) ;)
try Germany, France or any of the Nordic countries. Shit, as an American citizen you can go to some very good colleges in Finland and much of the EU for free.Thing is when you take into consideration that wages are higher, education cheaper, free or near free health care , more vacation/ personal time and almost ALL benefits are better than what is offered in the United States, even with a higher tax rate you are better off.

I know people like to talk shit about the preamble of the Constitution and the "Promote the common welfare" etc....

This is in the Constitution not the preamble, and yes it is subject to debate.

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

I advocate Medicare/Medicaid Part E (Everyone)
Private insurance does the same thing as medicare... gets between you and your Dr. , however medicare is not paying Billions , yes I said billions, to CEO's...oh, I am sorry. I meant millions plus stock options.... lol

The USA is the only advanced country that allows profit on peoples health, how fucked up is that. To let a for profit corporation decide if you live or die according to profits......... and people complain the government may do the same thing.......... I swear to the flying spaghetti monster I have seen some of you riding the short bus I sometimes drive as a volunteer sub bus driver my days off
 
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