Your thoughts on Ram Dass and WHY LSD is illegal

ANC

Well-Known Member
haha, so there I was yesterday morning, peaking pretty hard when I sat down with a group of friends, in the bunch was a guy who was in such a deep lsd trance he was beyond contact, the group quickly established he was not in any physical distress etc... so some time goes by as it always does when you roll surrounded by bikini clad girls with an unexplained ratio of 11 out of 10s. The dude snaps out of it, he looks up to me with the most astounded face, then said, YOU!, you were there on a mountain, and you were HUUUUUGE!!!!!!!.... A magician.... my friends all laughed.
 

Tenner

Well-Known Member
Everything.

Because it will change how I feel.

In any moment in time, the conversation I have with myself or the words coming out of my mouth make me feel a certain way. It also works the other way, in any moment in time I can change how I feel by the conversation I choose to have with myself or choose differently the words coming out of my mouth.

If I complain in the face of circumstances that justify my complaints, there is no power.
If I am grateful in the face of circumstances that justify my gratefulness, there is some power.
If I am grateful in the face of circumstances that are contrary to my gratefulness, there is great power. For in this instance, my gratefulness will eventually change my circumstances, just by simply choosing my thoughts.
I had to sober down to understand what you are saying but I`m sorry, I`m not on the same wavelength as you. My friend really liked your post and tried to explain to me but he is a person who beleives in karma and spirits.

What your trying to say is there is power when there is no complaint, rather greatfullness. I think this is rather a way you chill your mind out and irrelevant to why LSD is illegal, or what truth lies in what I said previously.

"If I am grateful in the face of circumstances that are contrary to my gratefulness, there is great power. For in this instance, my gratefulness will eventually change my circumstances, just by simply choosing my thoughts. " <--- I get the point here, its all in my head. If I get caught for the blotters I have and get locked up, even while in prison its all in my head. This is simply distracting your mind and meditating to steer away from facts...

I`m not sure what your referring to as "Power" but I sure think whatever that is, it can exist while complaining.

But respect for that as its all in our head anyway...

And I guess LSD will never be legal either...

Edit: Reading one last time i get what you are saying. But when i asked what that will change, i wasnt talking about in my head. But like i said, it will never be legal i guess so dude your on the right thought pattern.
 

ANC

Well-Known Member
The world you percieve is all in your head. It doesn't look the same to anyone else, noone has the specific mental connotation and responses and therefor persepective that you have.
Changeing your mind, changes your world.
 

Tenner

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the advice guys but I would rather be aware of the shit going on around me, forgetting and changing the way I think is no way to go for me. If I`m not thinking the truth I can be put wrong, but I will never change the way I perceive the truth.

I guess rather than do revolutions people could chill their heads out through history and it would of all been fine? Slavery could be fine too, change the way your mind perceives what you are ordered to do by your master and just think its a luxury to even hear him speak...!
 

tardis

Well-Known Member
LSD is illegal becuase it enlightens people in a way which they can`t cope. It gives them thoughts which they don`t want to think, it breaks their illusion of life etc... Joe Rogan would explain this much better than me if you looked him up on youtube.

In my opinion; A drug must deserve to be a class A, some dont. Speed, Cocaine, Heroin all deserve it as they are counter productive, cause crime and simply too easy to take and chill out. In a logical world LSD would NEVER deserve to be in the same class as these sorts of things. Fucking hellfire, can you see the comparison our government is making on this?? A comparison between highly addictive, counter productive life wasting substances to things like LSD&DMT which have changed my personality and inspired never stopping creative thinking and self awareness. Compared to that, a dose of some heroin or meth would of just made me feel good and good only.

This is so obviously wrong, i have taken psychedelics many times and havent for almost a year now. In my opinion, cannabis and alcohol have a higher rate of abuse than LSD. I`m sure if i did hard drugs as much as psychedelics i would be taking them quite often now. (I have never done and never will).

Bottomline: Taking some acid this weekend ^_^
I don't condone the use of psychedelics, but I agree they in themselves are a tool that should be used by doctors and the medical community (lsd for example has been shown to successfully cure alcoholism when given by a doctor in a controlled environment with specific stages the person is forced to partake in), BUT in the wrong hands they can do damage. Look at that shooter in Arizona and look what happend with him and psychedelics. granted he was a nutcase BEFORE he took them, but thats exactly what im talking about, lessons to the wrong people are very dangerous sometimes. (i don't think it should be illegal, but I am just saying like the wrong guy being given a hammer could kill a bunch of people in a school, does that mean hammers hsould be illegal?)

Jarred takes psychedelics, figures out that language is just grunts by the human animal, and language is illusionary and all conversation is plagued by ignored misunderstanding, his finding, words don't mean anything, they are illusionary.

next he goes on to beleive that since quantum mechanics show that our reality is NOT what we think it is, it too is illusionary. thus everything is an illusion, like languge, no interaction ever results in the spreading of information, but rather the collection of misunderstandings making any action good or evil pointless as you can't truely communicate.

In the end people see what they are looking for, regardless of what is presented to them. for example, if a meal is good or bad to a person is more dependent on if that person is looking for a good meal, or looking for a bad meal, how they interpret a meal that is good or bad from their own past, and what they expect and pay attention to, little has to do with any universally accepted definition of the meal itself. proof, try giving fine cuisine to a rich 6 year old kid and see if he agrees that its amazing.

OK, so now this crazy man comes to see that everything is an illusion and as a result he decided to go kill everyone, since nothing matters he decides to go on a killing spree....


Right lessons, taken the wrong way... what he never took into account was the fact that JUST BECAUSE SOMETHING IS AN ILLUSION DOESN'T MEAN IT ISN'T REAL!

Right Lessons, wrong person learning them. You teach one man to fly a plane and he ensures that passengers get safely from point A to point B without incident in a low turbulence comfortable flight. Give those same lessons to another man and he hijacks a plane and flys it into the twin towers.

It is Illegal cause we got a bunch of vicious dumbasses in our country. Give them weed instead of psychedelics or alcohol and you'll calm them down and they will take their anger out on a cheeseburger instead of the population.
 

ANC

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the advice guys but I would rather be aware of the shit going on around me, forgetting and changing the way I think is no way to go for me. If I`m not thinking the truth I can be put wrong, but I will never change the way I perceive the truth.

I guess rather than do revolutions people could chill their heads out through history and it would of all been fine? Slavery could be fine too, change the way your mind perceives what you are ordered to do by your master and just think its a luxury to even hear him speak...!
Why do you think this is contrary to what I said, the slave can either believe he will be a slave forever, or he can decide to not be a slave any longer and that will change his actions and that will change him.
 

Tenner

Well-Known Member
Why do you think this is contrary to what I said, the slave can either believe he will be a slave forever, or he can decide to not be a slave any longer and that will change his actions and that will change him.
Okay then, theoretically true. Are you saying you would just change your mind if someone turned you into a slave? Or is anyone?
 

Tenner

Well-Known Member
I don't condone the use of psychedelics, but I agree they in themselves are a tool that should be used by doctors and the medical community (lsd for example has been shown to successfully cure alcoholism when given by a doctor in a controlled environment with specific stages the person is forced to partake in), BUT in the wrong hands they can do damage. Look at that shooter in Arizona and look what happend with him and psychedelics. granted he was a nutcase BEFORE he took them, but thats exactly what im talking about, lessons to the wrong people are very dangerous sometimes. (i don't think it should be illegal, but I am just saying like the wrong guy being given a hammer could kill a bunch of people in a school, does that mean hammers hsould be illegal?)

Jarred takes psychedelics, figures out that language is just grunts by the human animal, and language is illusionary and all conversation is plagued by ignored misunderstanding, his finding, words don't mean anything, they are illusionary.

next he goes on to beleive that since quantum mechanics show that our reality is NOT what we think it is, it too is illusionary. thus everything is an illusion, like languge, no interaction ever results in the spreading of information, but rather the collection of misunderstandings making any action good or evil pointless as you can't truely communicate.

In the end people see what they are looking for, regardless of what is presented to them. for example, if a meal is good or bad to a person is more dependent on if that person is looking for a good meal, or looking for a bad meal, how they interpret a meal that is good or bad from their own past, and what they expect and pay attention to, little has to do with any universally accepted definition of the meal itself. proof, try giving fine cuisine to a rich 6 year old kid and see if he agrees that its amazing.

OK, so now this crazy man comes to see that everything is an illusion and as a result he decided to go kill everyone, since nothing matters he decides to go on a killing spree....


Right lessons, taken the wrong way... what he never took into account was the fact that JUST BECAUSE SOMETHING IS AN ILLUSION DOESN'T MEAN IT ISN'T REAL!

Right Lessons, wrong person learning them. You teach one man to fly a plane and he ensures that passengers get safely from point A to point B without incident in a low turbulence comfortable flight. Give those same lessons to another man and he hijacks a plane and flys it into the twin towers.

It is Illegal cause we got a bunch of vicious dumbasses in our country. Give them weed instead of psychedelics or alcohol and you'll calm them down and they will take their anger out on a cheeseburger instead of the population.
Thats a good comment, I agree with you.

The reasoning of Jarred is interesting, I mean he does have a point but why would that be a reason to go on a killing spree? The relationship between the idea "life is an illusion" and "im going on a killing spree" is just purely abstract.

My own reasoning after psychedelics such as dmt & lsd changed. It shifted from becoming depressed as there was no point to anything I did to a completely motivated attitude over a year, I changed countries and that helped too. I realised there would actually be no logical reason to anything as logic keeps asking why?, therefore not allowing a final answer to anything. I see this as a big burden upon us intelligent and concious humans. One which we must overcome, as from scientific study of life we can see that it simply spreads. I have great respect for Stephen Hawking as he beleives life should just exist and we should help it in every way to spread around the universe.

I look at it in a way that we should keep going as a succesfull specie. Life is awesome in every way. I raised 195£ in a charity in a fancy dress today :)

I think psychedelics do a great job at motivating certain people and driving certain ones insane... Legality should be concidered, its only by restarting experimentation we will find out how much creative and useful potential lsd and dmt have.

Edit: And I agree with the cannabis and cheesburger bit :)
 

ANC

Well-Known Member
FOr all his cleverness he can't seem to come up with a good reason why the universe would go through all the trouble of existing in the first place.
 

Puffer Fish

Well-Known Member
FOr all his cleverness he can't seem to come up with a good reason why the universe would go through all the trouble of existing in the first place.
Dear ANC ... this is a perfect example of what happens to Over-Thinkers .... and Blind Followers !

:)
 

Rodart Cockburn

New Member
I think you people are harping on the wrong chord. Language is used to define the world and communicate it to others, math is a language. Math points to a veritable infinity. Just the same way language does. And I don't think Hawking's regularly makes comments he can't verify.

According to new theories because time didn't exist before the universe and everything that isn't is actually completely full, it would be inevitable that a universe would pull itself into existence or an infinite amount of them. As far as gravity not computing on the sub atomic level, some theories posit that gravity is an eventual entropic result of the electromagnetic, and strong and weak radiation forces interacting.

These theories aren't just behest upon people, first people must agree upon the desired context and content in a language, then they must decide upon fundamental truths of the universe, then through logical distillation and extrapolation the theories are produced. As well math uses an equal sign to denote 'equality', whereas the spoken language uses the speaker as the equal sign between the objective and the interpreted.

The mathematical theories aren't nearly as varied as theories that spoken languages produce!

And of course there is no logic, everything requires faith; you must have faith that others exist or else you wouldn't be making such asinine comments.

Peace
 

Rodart Cockburn

New Member
I might ask ANC, Puffer; if he isn't quite clever enough what does your intellect say?

Let me first ask, can you refute the math?

Peace
 

Rodart Cockburn

New Member
I often approach my world as if each small interaction houses somewhere in it information about the big bang. This is the classic view of geometric reiteration. First we start with an equation like:
(which is not time restrained and reiterated 10,000,000 times) resulting in something like:
. Obviously if directions, velocities, forces, and time were rendered as well we would see a much different image.

Maybe something like our universe could be exampled if we discovered the correct values of our fractal and geometry. Perhaps we could even document every aspect of history(which I guess would be sort of mundane at that point), theoretically we could view the future thus allowing us to fast forward and create technology out of time scale. But thats along shot. Mind, physicists are using equations that are no more than a couple lines long with astounding accuracy.

We shall see.

Peace
 

Tenner

Well-Known Member
I often approach my world as if each small interaction houses somewhere in it information about the big bang. This is the classic view of geometric reiteration. First we start with an equation like:
(which is not time restrained and reiterated 10,000,000 times) resulting in something like:
. Obviously if directions, velocities, forces, and time were rendered as well we would see a much different image.

Maybe something like our universe could be exampled if we discovered the correct values of our fractal and geometry. Perhaps we could even document every aspect of history(which I guess would be sort of mundane at that point), theoretically we could view the future thus allowing us to fast forward and create technology out of time scale. But thats along shot. Mind, physicists are using equations that are no more than a couple lines long with astounding accuracy.

We shall see.

Peace
Sounds like a theory to me :)
 

Tenner

Well-Known Member
I think you people are harping on the wrong chord. Language is used to define the world and communicate it to others, math is a language. Math points to a veritable infinity. Just the same way language does. And I don't think Hawking's regularly makes comments he can't verify.

According to new theories because time didn't exist before the universe and everything that isn't is actually completely full, it would be inevitable that a universe would pull itself into existence or an infinite amount of them. As far as gravity not computing on the sub atomic level, some theories posit that gravity is an eventual entropic result of the electromagnetic, and strong and weak radiation forces interacting.

These theories aren't just behest upon people, first people must agree upon the desired context and content in a language, then they must decide upon fundamental truths of the universe, then through logical distillation and extrapolation the theories are produced. As well math uses an equal sign to denote 'equality', whereas the spoken language uses the speaker as the equal sign between the objective and the interpreted.

The mathematical theories aren't nearly as varied as theories that spoken languages produce!

And of course there is no logic, everything requires faith; you must have faith that others exist or else you wouldn't be making such asinine comments.

Peace
I have gave what you said some thought and its gave me a new perspective with the whole fractal thing. However, you are only stating scientific facts and nothing coming close to reason.

For example, Jarred goes crazy from LSD because he realises there is no communication as we only speak with primeval grunts turned into and there are no universal concepts therefore no communication

What you are saying:These theories aren't just behest upon people, first people must agree upon the desired context and content in a language, then they must decide upon fundamental truths of the universe, then through logical distillation and extrapolation the theories are produced.

However, your on a different level here. You are indicating no reason and saying fundamental truths MUST be decided upon. Why MUST they? So what I understand here is, your simply saying ignore the fact that there are no universal concepts and get on with it. Thats what all of us are doing, these posts of yours seem nothing more than the common "mind blowing" theories circulating around. Yes they do blow my mind and was a good perspective, but you get my point?

I`m currently reading a book called Shadows On the Cave Wall - A New Theory of Evolution

Here there is an interesting fact which makes better sense in the point im trying to prove.

Some problems with reality... How reliable is the observer?

At the outset, we must recognize that our journey is a human one. In other words all of the theories and beliefs that have been, are, and will be held by us, are the outcome of human thought. The writer and readers of this book are all human. While we may subjectively argue what it is to be human, we cannot determine what it is not to be human. If an ant or a butterfly were able to write this book, how different would it be? We can hypothesise that, in many respects, it may not be that different, given that the Universe is a common setting for all life, and that many of the key drivers of our behaviour are similar. Yet there are aspects of the human race that appear to be extremely different from those of other members of the living world. This is an important point. Our ability (or inability) to imbue our observed word with meaning will always be influenced by the experiences that we have participated in prior to the point in time at which the interpretation takes place., both in our own lives, and within the context of accumulated knowledge through our species existence, Thus the veracity of purity, or the intepretation will be a product of these experiences, which in turn define the observer.

Great book! Highly advised.. Any mitigations are welcomed as brain exercise!!
 

Rodart Cockburn

New Member
Sorry I must be missing what your trying to say. Are you saying science is not reason? Reason is only possible through discussion between parties, language is absolutely necessary to make a reasonable assessment of the world. Its a way for more than a individual to compile common information that they haven't directly observed and weed out disinformation or naivety.

Just because our word language doesn't have ideal structure to convey truths, doesn't mean universal truths don't exist. Unless I missed a memo? Like pi for example, that is a universal truth. From what we can sense gravity is also universal. The reason truth must be decided on is so the content of a language is consistent. Rather than having eight words that mean snow, we can define it as the material H2O being subject to a lowered temperature while rendering its H-bonding nearly ineffective and its energetic movement to a dull humm.

What science tries to do is make as few assumptions as possible, and only make an assumption if that assumption can lead to prove another idea while adhering to the 'known' truths. Thats not to say what we know as truths haven't evolved into what we know and aren't going to evolve further. My point was that math is a much more concise and accurate way of knowing the world.

It just seems your entire ideal hinges on relativism, sort of a thought up metaphysical world(please correct me if I'm incorrect). I prefer a world that each can test themselves, the objective and falsifiable, and the only proof hinges on ones desire to dissect what 'is'.

That book sort of sounds like plato's allegory of the cave, and science is in complete consonance with that. And commonsense would say that what people believe is inevitably a result of its experiences(its experiences could include scientific meandering).

I really don't know if I got that right.

Peace
 
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