CMH / QB288 / QB120 / SB240 / VERO 29C comparison...

ganjamystic

Well-Known Member
315W CMH (315W, obviously..)

2 x QB288 @ 157.5W each (315W)

4 x QB288 @ 79W each (316W)

6 x QB120 @ 52.5W each (315W)

4 x SUN BOARD 240 @ 79W each (316W)

4 x VERO 29C @ 79W each (316W)

just wondering how these would compare in a 3x3 (~35W/sqft)... trying to estimate the PAR and PPFD in a 3x3 of each of these.. anyone have this info or care to help me figure it out?...
 
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Photon Flinger

Well-Known Member
What about 8 or 12 Vero 29c for the same 315w?

Besides pushing my more cobs agenda, with the C running about 30US/35CDN that is only a 120/140 dollar increase for 8 and 240/280 for 12. Relatively cheap upgrade to be considered. Apply same logic for other vendors.
 

Rider509

Well-Known Member
I'm with Photon FLinger. More cobs will provide a more uniform PFD across the canopy and reduce shadowing under the canopy. Wish I could help you with the measurements you've asked for but I'm only familiar with the 3590s.
 

Photon Flinger

Well-Known Member
I have 12 Cs running in 1m2 which is close to 3x3 and get 1500-1850 PPFD across my canopy running each cob at 20-35w.

3000k 80 and 90 CRI mix, good air circulation, semi vertical configuration. Distance is 6-12" no lenses or reflectors and temps are 23-27c.
 

ganjamystic

Well-Known Member
obviously the uniformity and light distribution patterns of these options would vary, but I'm not really interested in bringing that into the comparison in this particular case... I know that more point sources of light over a given area = more even coverage with less hotspots and shadows, but in this case I'm just interested in comparing the PPF / µmol/j of these various 315W options... that's why I said average PPFD over a 3x3... we can just pretend like each option would uniformly cover a 3x3... I'm just interested in how much photosynthetically active radiation each would put out at 315W...
 

ganjamystic

Well-Known Member
basically I just want to fill in the missing info here:

315W CMH

Watts: 337
PPF (μmol/s): 491
efficacy (µmol/J): 1.46

2 x QB288 @ 157.5W each
Watts:
PPF (μmol/s):
Efficacy (µmol/J):

4 x QB288 @ 79W each
Watts:
PPF (μmol/s):
Efficacy (µmol/J):

6 x QB120 @ 52.5W each

Watts:
PPF (μmol/s):
Efficacy (µmol/J):

4 x SUN BOARD 240 @ 79W each

Watts:
PPF (μmol/s):
Efficacy (µmol/J):

4 x VERO 29C @ 79W each

Watts:
PPF (μmol/s):
Efficacy (µmol/J):
 

key4

Well-Known Member
I cant be bothered copying and pasting . Just have a look on hlgs website for the qb stuff. Timer has vero details on site . cmh is about 600 umols.
 

ganjamystic

Well-Known Member
I cant be bothered copying and pasting . Just have a look on hlgs website for the qb stuff. Timer has vero details on site . cmh is about 600 umols.
lol thanks?.. already have the info for cmh (see above).. not sure what you mean when you say "cmh is about 600 umols"... cmh has a PPF of 491 μmol/s (source)... I haven't been able to find the info I'm looking for on the hlg or timber websites, do you mind posting a link to where you found the info on those sites?
 

ganjamystic

Well-Known Member
like... wtf are these numbers?
  • 288pcs Samsung 561C top bin Diodes
  • Connectors rated 300V 9A
  • Estimated LER 321.60 lm/W
  • Estimated QER 4.86 µmol/J
  • Dimensions 6.833" x 11.25
  • Max current per board 3000mA
I haven't seen lm/w or µmol/J numbers that high anywhere else... what do those even mean? what am I looking at here?...
 

ganjamystic

Well-Known Member
so it seems like this might be the closest info to what I'm looking for for QB288... right?

QB288 @ ~69-72W (I was wondering about QB288 @ ~79W)
Voltage (Min Vf dc) 49.86
Voltage (Max Vf dc) 51.84
Current (mA) 1400
Watts at Board (Min Watts) 69.5
Watts at Board (Max Watts) 72.1
Max Lm/W at Board (40C) 188.4
Min Lm/W at Board (40C) 181.8
Min μmoles/joule at Board(40C) 2.75

QB288 @ ~147-152W (I was wondering about QB288 @ ~157W)
Voltage (Min Vf dc) 52.56
Voltage (Max Vf dc) 54.54
Current (mA) 2800
Watts at Board (Min Watts) 147.2
Watts at Board (Max Watts) 152.6
Max Lm/W at Board (40C) 168.3
Min Lm/W at Board (40C) 162.3
Min μmoles/joule at Board(40C) 2.45

but still... since these numbers are all "at board" are they even the numbers I'm actually looking for? I'm assuming the 1.46 μmol/J figure given is for a cmh fixture, not just the lamp... or am I wrong?
 

CobKits

Well-Known Member
315W CMH (315W, obviously..)

2 x QB288 @ 157.5W each (315W)

4 x QB288 @ 79W each (316W)

6 x QB120 @ 52.5W each (315W)

4 x SUN BOARD 240 @ 79W each (316W)

4 x VERO 29C @ 79W each (316W)

just wondering how these would compare in a 3x3 (~35W/sqft)... trying to estimate the PAR and PPFD in a 3x3 of each of these.. anyone have this info or care to help me figure it out?...
CMH is kinda off them map because its spectrum is completely different than every other one in the list which are all phosphor white. its effect on the plants is beyond a simple par measurement vs the other chips

as for the phosphor whites ill rank them by what should be most efficient and guess at relative cost (the latter of which you can look up yourself when making your decision. assuming they are all same mfr and bin of 561C just look at the wattage per diode to get a stab at efficiency

4 x QB288 @ 79W each (316W) - 0.27W/diode most efficient, most expensive

4 x SUN BOARD 240 @ 79W each (316W) - 0.33 W/diode. prob similar to 4xQB within a few percent. prob comes down to cost and which flux and voltage bin the sunboards use

6 x QB120 @ 52.5W each (315W) - 0.44 W/diode, still efficient, less expensive than #1. better coverage which may or may not help in a 3x3 depending on growing style

2 x QB288 @ 157.5W each (315W) (0.55W/diode) is *about* equal to 4 x VERO 29C @ 79W each (316W) (~0.25W/diode), the latter is likely cheaper. if i was going to run boards this hard id prob go with cobs

i think HLG is on the right track with the lower cost QB120s. stacking a shit ton of diodes on a board make for impressive efficacy but the practicality of that when trying to light a garden lacks in the uniform coverage department. thats why cobs will always ahve a place- they are relatively cheap as hell for their performance to the point that you can use as many as you like to build the exact array you want.

its actually financially reasonable to throw up one QB120 per 1.5 SQ ft and crush in both efficacy and coverage. i have yet to lay my hands on one but it should be right there in efficacy with the 200-300 diode cobs (1818, cxm22, vero29, etc) and is more user friendly for those who find basic thermal management a challenge
 

ganjamystic

Well-Known Member
That's classified. I could tell you but then I'd have to kill you. :bigjoint:
:shock:
I'm curious as to why are you curious. What's the goal? Are you considering a build?
lol there's a lot going on up in my head :eyesmoke: but ya that's one reason.. I have a 7x7 space (four 3x3 squares, with 1 foot aisle space in between) that is due for an upgrade...

I built a few qb lights, which are currently lighting 1 quadrant of the space; the remaining 3/4 is lit by blurples (decent 2014ish versions with lots of white diodes mixed in with the red, blue & violet, but prob only equal to a se hps in efficiency or worse lol..)...

I'm ready to send the blurples on their way though and upgrade the lighting to something more efficient (same amount of light for less W and with less heat, rather than more light for same amount of W and heat.. if that makes sense... I in other words, I don't need more light in the space, just less heat and a lower power bill).. and honestly I just want the light to be all warmish to neutralish white because it's so much easier on my eyes and I just want to be able to wear regular shades in there not green ones :blsmoke:...

I've decided to move the three qb lights I built (each currently has 2 3500K qb288s on slate 3 triple heatsinks driven in parallel by HLG-320H-54A drivers) to 3 2x4 tents, giving me 24 sqft of extra space at up to 40W per sqft .. or move all 3 to a 4x4 and drive all 3 with only 2 of the drivers, giving me only 16 sqft of extra space at up to 40W per sqft but with more uniform coverage and greater efficiency...

which leaves me to light the 4 3x3 quadrants of the main space... I'd like to just go with 4 of the same thing, whatever I decide to do... here's all the possibilities I'm considering (in no particular order.. no preference yet, just trying to do a proper analysis before deciding):
  • 2 x 1000w de hps (revolution micro deva, on light movers, dimmed to 60%)
  • 4 x 315w cmh
  • 8 x 260w qb288 kits (2 per 3x3, dimmed to ~157.5W each)
  • 4 x 315w qb288 diy lights (just like the ones I already built, but with the better slate 2 heatsinks)
  • 4 x 315w qb120 diy lights (each consisting of 6 qb120s, dimmed to ~52.5W each)
  • 4 x 315w photonfantom diy lights (each consisting of 4 sun boards, fusion boards, or wavy boards at ~79W each)
  • 4 x 400w timber 4vs (dimmed to ~315W each)
basically I want to keep the wattage constant (~315W per 3x3 quadrant) and analyze the PAR/$ of the various options, irrespective of other factors such as light uniformity, potential bulb changes, spectral differences, etc.... I just want to figure out the PAR/$ of all the possibilities I listed and I can then make my decision, taking all those other factors I mentioned into consideration.... if that makes sense...

bongsmilie
 
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