Redwood Ninja
Well-Known Member
I've heard it's hard to overfeed plants using non-chelated organic nutrients. Is it true?
Overfeeding organic nutrients?
- Thread starter Redwood Ninja
- Start date
MustangStudFarm
Well-Known Member
The issue that I run into is too much of one thing will lock out other things. For example, I've added oyster shell flour to plants about week 3 of flower and everything went to shit because I locked out the K. Too much manure compost(or bone meal) was locking out micronutrients. Too much kelp will raise your Na levels too high and it looks like you are under watering when your not. Nutrients have an antagonist relationship with each other, which means that they are always fighting against each other. My most recent project is to get my iron and Mn in balance with each other. I think that way more people suffer from Mn def then anyone realizes. Sorry for rambling...
Richard Drysift
Well-Known Member
You can easily overfeed using any kind of soluble nutrients. Most liquid organic fertilizers like liquid fish emulsion tend to be low in npk value so it is less likely to burn your plants than synth nutes; though it is not impossible.
Dry organic amendments on the other hand are not available to the plants until broken down by microbes. It's not impossible to burn your plants with kelp meal but you would have to get pretty crazy with it for that to happen. You certainly don't have to be as exacting with slow release dry fertilizers as you do with regular chelated nutes. It is more important to provide is a good balance of diverse organic inputs; add lots of different things in small amounts.
MustangStudFarm
Well-Known Member
I had sodium problems from using too much kelp and it seems like I got more Na than I did N, K, or micronutrients.
Richard Drysift
Well-Known Member
Yep... that there kelp is loaded with salt. I have been providing seaweed mostly in liquid form lately only because I have not replenished my supply of dry kelp meal. Used to use it mainly for aacts which I haven't been doing either. Used to think it was some kind of veganic miracle amendment but it can easily be replaced by other sources of npk. I always thought the main benefit of using kelp meal was for the probiotics but a handful of ewc is way more active than hydrated kelp.
Seems like fresh vermicompost and a little chicken manure is all my mix really needs since I've added so much other stuff over the years. I still amend with neem seed meal and mineral inputs when I recycle soil but my list of on hand amendments is quickly dwindling.
I like using a slow release dry fertilizer like blood/bone meal for plants in bloom. Organic plant spikes feed for 8 weeks; perfect for a water only flower cycle. I use a soluble fert like liquid fish w/seaweed for plants in veg; they usually need a boost just before they are transplanted into their final size pots.
ganga gurl420
Well-Known Member
Too much manure does not lock out anything. That is what I grow in. 400 gallons of it for each plant. Infact a random seed fell from last harvest and sprouted in the box a few months ago. Didnt do anything to it, just let nature take its course. This was the results
And last yrs grow (I didnt do a on purpose grow this yr)
Many many growers use manure instead of dirt for their soil and just amend with dry nutes the same as you would any super soil. After yrs of trying everything, this has the best results I've ever seen.
Cannasaurus Rex
Well-Known Member
Do you have livestock for your manure supply? Uhh WOW btw, nice plot there.
ganga gurl420
Well-Known Member
Thanks lol. The only reason there are so many weeds is I live in an illegal state and want the weeds to hide my boxes
I dont have any livestock no. I get it delivered from a local farmer. I got 5000 gallons delivered and composted for around $300 so you cant beat the price.
ganga gurl420
Well-Known Member
This was another shot of my gf standing between two plants
Cannasaurus Rex
Well-Known Member
that is a sweet deal, just delivery would cost more here lol.
ganga gurl420
Well-Known Member
Yeah it ranges from 10 to 20 a yard here delivered. Cheaper if you get it yourself.
MustangStudFarm
Well-Known Member
Ground soil has plenty of micronutrients, so it's not really a problem outdoor. Farmers call ground soil "mineral soil" because it's full of minerals, unlike indoor potting soil. I've seen your work so I have a decent idea of what you are up to, good job and I'm a fan. However, old people keep telling me that indoor soil and outdoor soil are completely different animals and it took me a while to figure out what they were talking about. I'm not trying to argue with you at all, but when was the last time that you tried to run compost in some indoor potting soil?
ganga gurl420
Well-Known Member
I just did an indoor scrog with the same exact mix. Sadly I only have t5s for lights but I was just doing some breeding so wasnt looking for massive yields. Still did really decent tho.
The only thing I will be really changing is I want to add some azomite to the soil mix. Not because it seems like its lacking but because I know it is good for them.
MustangStudFarm
Well-Known Member
Does your compost have comfrey or borage type plants added to it? I had some Malibu Compost that I had tested and I was pretty impressed with it, it actually had micronutrients and low phosphorus. Maybe the person making your manure compost knows what they are doing, do you know their secret? However, I find that every soil test that I have done with a peat based mix is always low in Mn. This is Malibu Compost straight out of the bag and it's still not perfect, but it's better than what I have been making from my rabbit manure.
MustangStudFarm
Well-Known Member
I think that this is where we are getting off on the wrong foot. I implied "could" and your thinking "would" like every compost is going to cause problems. Can you agree that every compost is not made the same? Would you also agree that there are environmental factors that will play into this. Can you promise me that cow manure in Oklahoma is going to be the same as where you are from? I gotta go cook some breakfast for the kids, I'll be on here later today. BTW, I'm the type that would appreciate it if you could prove me wrong and teach me something.
ganga gurl420
Well-Known Member
Mine is just manure no other types of compost. The only reason I said anything is people are sceptical to grow in just manure. The statement you made of too much composted manure was locking out micronutrients. I dont want someone to read that and not ever try growing in it you know?
Its hard enough to get people convinced that composted manure isnt too hot to grow plants in....
As far as will manure vary state to state? Its just cow shit. And yes I do think all cow shit will end up the same as long as its outdoors, very aged, and uncovered so rain gets to it.
Its hard enough to get people convinced that composted manure isnt too hot to grow plants in....
As far as will manure vary state to state? Its just cow shit. And yes I do think all cow shit will end up the same as long as its outdoors, very aged, and uncovered so rain gets to it.
ganga gurl420
Well-Known Member
P.s. I'm not defending compost (that will vary depending on what is composted in it and yes can be too high in something and cause lockout)
I'm just defending the manure comment. That is all. Anyways.... no Ill feelings here. Peace....
I'm just defending the manure comment. That is all. Anyways.... no Ill feelings here. Peace....
MustangStudFarm
Well-Known Member
I do use compost and I've been trying to figure out why I keep having problems. I'm here to learn above all else. I think that you just got lucky and found someone that knows how to compost. I strongly disagree about all compost being the same in the end.
MustangStudFarm
Well-Known Member
I wish that someone would have told me to use TM-7 or Big-6 is all... The problem that I have with manure is that it has too much phosphorus, but the Malibu Compost that I bought wasn't high and I want to figure out how they did it. Here is what I know about Phosphorus and this statement matches my soil tests.
Copy&Paste:
These excesses of phosphorus have several undesirable effects. It has been shown to interfere with a plant's absorption of iron, manganese and zinc, resulting in yellowing of leaves and poor health of the plant.