Living Soil LED Grow - Deficiencies? Light Stress?

[jHands]

I haven’t dabbled in the VPN on purpose...sounds like getting your environment right and that depends on your lighting/CO2/air flow etc.

I personally veg with LEDs now but have used it alllll! I like to save the wattage for where it’s really needed. I personally like vertical hoods and will probably never go back to anything horizontal. Just a preference as I seem to lose light. If my plants get outta the 3x3 footprint I supplement with LED. If I had a 4x8 I’d use 4 vertical hoods with 315w and prob kill it. Just gotta keep the temps slightly lower than an LED grow. Hope I helped and now I want to start a journal.

Edit...possible to get 4# with those four fixtures at 1.5 g/w

Surely, but how would you recommend orienting 4 315’s over a 4x8 footprint?

 

[Gingeroot]

Surely, but how would you recommend orienting 4 315’s over a 4x8 footprint?

Good point Haven’t looked into cmh hoods in awhile. Don’t think the 315 bulbs can span 4’...would really like to hear some other folks input as to why your light set up MIGHT not be working. I know 2 gavitas would cover it if you don’t have a budget and are in a pinch...still your issues bothering me now and could be an easy fix ya know.

 

[jHands]

Good point Haven’t looked into cmh hoods in awhile. Don’t think the 315 bulbs can span 4’...would really like to hear some other folks input as to why your light set up MIGHT not be working. I know 2 gavitas would cover it if you don’t have a budget and are in a pinch...still your issues bothering me now and could be an easy fix ya know.

I feel ya man. I’d rather get this shit figured out, rather than switching fixtures. Gonna see if bumping my humidity up and changing the angle of my fans helps. Wondering if the plants just aren’t transpiring effectively.

 

[dubekoms]

How much wattage over each bed? Sounds like too much light to me.

 

[jHands]

How much wattage over each bed? Sounds like too much light to me.

The fixtures only pull 700 watts with all spectrums at 100%. It could be a combo of too much light and VPD being out of range.

 

[Gingeroot]

The fixtures only pull 700 watts with all spectrums at 100%. It could be a combo of too much light and VPD being out of range.

Can you get your leaf surface temps around 80-82 and humidity 50-60? That’s what I’ve had success with in LED grows. I’ll keep watching and hope the good soil and spectrum starts workin for ya!

 

[jHands]

Can you get your leaf surface temps around 80-82 and humidity 50-60? That’s what I’ve had success with in LED grows. I’ll keep watching and hope the good soil and spectrum starts workin for ya!

I’m going to focus in on that. I’m wondering if my fans are creating too low of a leaf surface temp, and that combined with the lower RH I’m running is throwing the VPD out of whack and causing these issues. I haven’t really followed a VPD chart yet.

 

[Flavorcraver]

Hey so I was having this same isue in my led veg room... I started clones/seeds under a t5 then veg under led then move to a mixed lighting flower room... When I veg with mh I don't see this problem. (Looking like some kind of mag or k isue or light bleaching) I never have nute isues in my organics so I have ruled that out...
I thot it could be vpd related but have never had those type isues under HD lighting or t5. I also keep lights on 24/7 in veg.. So I tried 18on 6off... The problem seemed a bit beter but still They would look like hell by the time the lights went out, then recover durring dark and so on...
So now I start my seeds right under LED and the problem has seemed to stop. I still keep my lights hung high and let the plants grow closer on they own. I still don't let them grow too close to the lights tho.
In my situation it was deff a light intensity thing. Plants couldn't use all the light unless temps and rh are spot on allong with nutrition and watering habits... Also high peaks in red durring veg seem to stress my girls out more so then a flat 3500k or a blue/purple "veg spectrum"
Seems that vpd matters more under LED lighting.. My girls wouldn't drink any water which inturn also caused isues similar to over watering..
I still dunno exactly what is causing this or what makes LED light diff from say mh or hps... It may be as simple as the leaf temps are too low for the plant to drink the water it needs to run photosynthesis at such high levels... With every other aspect turned up but water intake slowed due to heat and rh...
Sorry to jabber on but I am very intrested in this topic!
Hey hope you get it sorted out id love to hear what worked for you!
HappyGrowing!!

 

[dubekoms]

The fixtures only pull 700 watts with all spectrums at 100%. It could be a combo of too much light and VPD being out of range.

So 1400 watts total over each bed? I don't know if you're running them at 100% but if you are it sounds like too much light to me. I would dial them both back to 400-500 watts each and see how the plants respond. I only say this because I've had similar issues when adding another light or increasing wattage and they always seem to do better with less watts.

 

[jHands]

So 1400 watts total over each bed? I don't know if you're running them at 100% but if you are it sounds like too much light to me. I would dial them both back to 400-500 watts each and see how the plants respond. I only say this because I've had similar issues when adding another light or increasing wattage and they always seem to do better with less watts.

The stress is occurring at lower power intensities with good canopy distance as well?

 

[Flavorcraver]

I’m going to focus in on that. I’m wondering if my fans are creating too low of a leaf surface temp, and that combined with the lower RH I’m running is throwing the VPD out of whack and causing these issues. I haven’t really followed a VPD chart yet.

The stress is occurring at lower power intensities with good canopy distance as well?

Are they drinking much water?

 

[jHands]

Are they drinking much water?

Hard to say because I don’t hand water. I have blumats in the beds.

 

[Flavorcraver]

So yea the transition from t5 to LED is enough to stress a plant real hard anyways. I had the most trouble when starting my seeds and rooting clones under t5. They thrive under t5. They need two weeks or so to acclimate to the spectrum and intensity when moved under quantum boards... I would recomend supplementig your t5 room with LED from the start. Or just ditching the t5s and going full LED all the time. This is not an ideal solution I know... But it is what worked for me.

Also I don't pay attention to vpd but it couldn't hurt!

 

[jHands]

So yea the transition from t5 to LED is enough to stress a plant real hard anyways. I had the most trouble when starting my seeds and rooting clones under t5. They thrive under t5. They need two weeks or so to acclimate to the spectrum and intensity when moved under quantum boards... I would recomend supplementig your t5 room with LED from the start. Or just ditching the t5s and going full LED all the time. This is not an ideal solution I know... But it is what worked for me.

Also I don't pay attention to vpd but it couldn't hurt!

My current method allows for plenty of time for the plants to acclimate to the LED’s in veg. I start them with the lights far away and dialed down. I wait for the plants to start growing towards the lights before I start adding any intensity to any spectrum.

 

[PadawanWarrior]

So yea the transition from t5 to LED is enough to stress a plant real hard anyways. I had the most trouble when starting my seeds and rooting clones under t5. They thrive under t5. They need two weeks or so to acclimate to the spectrum and intensity when moved under quantum boards... I would recomend supplementig your t5 room with LED from the start. Or just ditching the t5s and going full LED all the time. This is not an ideal solution I know... But it is what worked for me.

Also I don't pay attention to vpd but it couldn't hurt!

Ya, I moved my t5 clones into a quantum board room, and was as shocked as they were. I had to keep moving the lights up, but they are adjusting. Some are up to 50000 lux now, but they are still getting adjusted to the intensity. Here's about a week ago.

 

[jHands]

Been talking to someone on Instagram who uses these fixtures in soil. He runs them anywhere from 6 inches to 3 feet off the canopy with good results. Claims that it’s all strain dependent. Funny thing though, I’m running a strain my buddy gave me. He runs it under same fixtures in rockwool and hydro. He slams the fixture on the canopy with no issues. I think the problem here is that living soil has nutrients available 24/7. When the plant gets a shitload of light and/or too much 660, it drinks more water. In hydro, no big deal - just taking in more water. In soil, when it drinks more, it takes in more nutrients leading to what appears to be burn. This is my theory. It makes good sense to me. I’m going to dial back the red in both my rooms, and start paying a little more attention to detail.

 

[Flavorcraver]

Been talking to someone on Instagram who uses these fixtures in soil. He runs them anywhere from 6 inches to 3 feet off the canopy with good results. Claims that it’s all strain dependent. Funny thing though, I’m running a strain my buddy gave me. He runs it under same fixtures in rockwool and hydro. He slams the fixture on the canopy with no issues. I think the problem here is that living soil has nutrients available 24/7. When the plant gets a shitload of light and/or too much 660, it drinks more water. In hydro, no big deal - just taking in more water. In soil, when it drinks more, it takes in more nutrients leading to what appears to be burn. This is my theory. It makes good sense to me. I’m going to dial back the red in both my rooms, and start paying a little more attention to detail.

Nice yea sounds like your on the right path... Let us know how it goes! Thanks

 

[GrimRe4]

Apologies for reviving a dead thread.
@jHands did you ever solve your problem? Running an extremely similar soil under LM301b chips, been having a time of it. Similar to you, soil outside is rocking their socks off, inside not so much. Almost presents as cal/mag issue, along with slight purple streaking on stems. Running a 3x3 with a fabric bed roughly a foot deep, under a 400 watt unit that I haven't been able to blast em with yet due to obvious issues. It seems it's a distance issue to me. . . . Moved the chips to 24" seemed to get me a deeper green (albeit not gone either). Biggest difference I see between the two systems would be temps/humidity & I dont run a blumat. FWIW, my temps stay between around 64-68 at night and get around 74-76 at lights on @ canopy (doesn't break 82° at the light level, at the dirt under a thick canopy it rides at 71-72 all day)

 

[getogrow]

Apologies for reviving a dead thread.
@jHands did you ever solve your problem? Running an extremely similar soil under LM301b chips, been having a time of it. Similar to you, soil outside is rocking their socks off, inside not so much. Almost presents as cal/mag issue, along with slight purple streaking on stems. Running a 3x3 with a fabric bed roughly a foot deep, under a 400 watt unit that I haven't been able to blast em with yet due to obvious issues. It seems it's a distance issue to me. . . . Moved the chips to 24" seemed to get me a deeper green (albeit not gone either). Biggest difference I see between the two systems would be temps/humidity & I dont run a blumat. FWIW, my temps stay between around 64-68 at night and get around 74-76 at lights on @ canopy (doesn't break 82° at the light level, at the dirt under a thick canopy it rides at 71-72 all day)

Most of the newer lights running the lm301 diodes are stronger then they seem. Every good grower who switches has problems. That leads me to believe that the light is so much more intense that we need more Mg and overall food. (more light =more food)
This is my opinion. Its always the older guys who been doing it for years that have the most problems switching. Most of us old heads have neve used calmag. (it wasnt needed and still aint, not as much as this forum says. )
Raise the lights even more and the problems are much less.
Ive noticed with organic grows that the intensity of these leds speeds everything up except the microbes. So they are not providing enough food for the girls.

 

[GrimRe4]

Most of the newer lights running the lm301 diodes are stronger then they seem. Every good grower who switches has problems. That leads me to believe that the light is so much more intense that we need more Mg and overall food. (more light =more food)
This is my opinion. Its always the older guys who been doing it for years that have the most problems switching. Most of us old heads have neve used calmag. (it wasnt needed and still aint, not as much as this forum says. )
Raise the lights even more and the problems are much less.
Ive noticed with organic grows that the intensity of these leds speeds everything up except the microbes. So they are not providing enough food for the girls.

I've been lurking about this problem for awhile now. This seems to be the best explanation I've seen. I see alot of witch hunts on here most of which are started from under l.e.d.
My luck is this is my first crack under lights and its had me scratching my head feeling lost.
Biggest reservation I have about raising my lights is the bud density on the back side. I can come in with lower temps at night to help it along (observation from outdoor runs is cold mornings = tight buds). I'd just hate to be in here wasting time for fluff.