Clones Vs Seeds

[potpimp]

Lol... that's what I thought too, the guy texted me saying that they go fast, to grab them while I could.

Yeah, I'm sure people are just lined up at the door waiting to pony up a bale of cash for a clone. These people are nothing but criminals.

 

[xtsho]

Yeah, I'm sure people are just lined up at the door waiting to pony up a bale of cash for a clone. These people are nothing but criminals.

They're not breaking any laws. They're just using hype and the naivete of many to perpetuate a lucrative business.

 

[Week4@inCharge]

The best clone is a clone shared by a grower. Ask Kyle Kushman #StrawberryKush

 

[speedwell68]

popping new seeds all the time only make sense if you grow autos or are pheno hunting (and/or breeding). From an economical perspective it always makes more sense to keep an elite mother and grow from clones.

But I'd have to keep those clones alive for 8 - 12 weeks whilst their mothers flower. Plus it is double the amount of plants I have when the Police come knocking.

 

[xtsho]

I have cloned the first plant that I've ever grown, all my knowledge being theoretical (Cervantes book). 75% success rate on the clones. Back then I did not even have Clonex, I used a natural willow bark extract. Cloned in coco with a heating mat and a humidity dome.

A few months ago me and my friend cloned a Critical Kush female on a whim, took ~18 cuts, all of them rooted. Used Clonex that time, and rock wool.

I'm pretty sure the "glass of water on the window sill" method works as well, just takes longer.

Honestly I have no idea how to mess up cloning, let alone so consistently.

Going from clone to harvest is faster than going from seed; popping new seeds all the time only make sense if you grow autos or are pheno hunting (and/or breeding). From an economical perspective it always makes more sense to keep an elite mother and grow from clones.

Unless you have a ton of room for many different mothers you're growing the same strain over and over again. I'll grow 4 different strains each grow. Growing the same strain seems boring.

 

[Thundercat]

Seeds and clones both have their place. I’ve never understood this “line in the sand” approach that some growers take towards either side.

Seeds are great they give you genetic variety, they give you the ability to breed without chemicals, they allow you to run a single grow space with no need to keep mothers.

Clones are great too, they let you grow solid known genetics indefinitely if you keep them healthy. This usually means more even canopies and yields through a grow space. They are already mature plants so you can flower them immediately and cut out veg time which means more harvests per year in a set amount of space.

I would never pay $1500 for a clone. But I can totally understand why some commercial growers would. That $1500 investment will pay for itself the first run if you clone it yourself and fill a room with top shelf. Now the right clone from the right person I would totally pay a couple hundred. Same thing it will pay for itself.

I’m also not about just randomly getting genetics from whoever. For it to have value it needs to be healthy, clean, and from a source you can trust it’s legit. Always quarantine new cuts too guys it’s important to not bring pests into your garden even if the plants look good at first.

Something that is huge and doesn’t get talked about much on this topic is phenotype. A plants phenotype (that specific elite clone selection you are thinking about buying) is heavily dependent on its environment! So when these clones are selected in whatever garden they came from they were growing a certain way. The thing is though once you take those clones and put them into a different garden they are very likely to grow differently. Some times the grow conditions are similar and the changes in phenotype are minor or not at all. Sometimes a different environment results in a totally different phenotype emerging from the genetics. Multiple times I’ve passed clones to different grower friends. Some were beginner but some were seasoned growers with good product themselves. I’ve never gotten a picture or sample from any of them that was the same as my original genetics. Just something to keep in mind.

 

[Thundercat]

Unless you have a ton of room for many different mothers you're growing the same strain over and over again. I'll grow 4 different strains each grow. Growing the same strain seems boring.

I used to keep 3-5 different mother plants all in about a 2x2 space under a T5 light. I took 20 clones every 3 weeks and chopped the mother’s back to branches and stems each time. They always grew right back strong as could be ready to clone again the next cycle. Mothers don’t need lots of space. You can still grow from clone and have variety it’s not hard at all.

 

[ComputerSaysNo]

But I'd have to keep those clones alive for 8 - 12 weeks whilst their mothers flower. Plus it is double the amount of plants I have when the Police come knocking.

Unless you have a ton of room for many different mothers you're growing the same strain over and over again. I'll grow 4 different strains each grow. Growing the same strain seems boring.

There are plenty of reasons not to make or keep clones, but difficulty of making clones is not one of them. It is really easy (and fun) to clone a plant, which was the main point of my reply.

Also, I do not think you need a lot of room to keep mothers. The mothers can be really small, maybe in 2L pots on a capillary mat or something. They don't need a lot of light either. As long as you do not have to take 20 clones off a single plant at the same time to fill an SoG, it really does not matter how big the mother plants are.

If you mainly grow for your own consumption, in my opinion the best way is to buy fem-autos and pop those. Lots of variety that way and short time from seed to harvest.

My friends who partake a lot and grow for personal use actually do not want clones because they'd rather keep ordering seeds and try new strains. Fair enough!

Any other operation basically requires clones for consistency and economy.

You can still grow from clone and have variety it’s not hard at all.

Yeah, and as long as you want to keep producing, this is far easier, more consistent, and cheaper than going from seeds all the time.

Plant count can be an issue, however. The judiciary will take into account that you keep mothers and take clones, and they can hold that against you (because it definitely points towards "growing for distribution" as opposed to "personal use only").

 

[Thundercat]

Lmao all my growing has been underground prohibition state growing until the last 2 years. As long as I kept it under the federal 99 I wasn’t even thinking about counts. The reality is small mother plants can even support a SOG grow. I typically had 45 plants in a 4x4 flood tray at all times. There was usually 4 cycles at a time about 3 weeks apart. All supported off a few mother’s in 6inch square pots of hydroton under a T5.

If you are a person that NEEDS to respect plant count then obviously that should be a consideration when deciding how you wanna set up a garden.

 

[xtsho]

I used to keep 3-5 different mother plants all in about a 2x2 space under a T5 light. I took 20 clones every 3 weeks and chopped the mother’s back to branches and stems each time. They always grew right back strong as could be ready to clone again the next cycle. Mothers don’t need lots of space. You can still grow from clone and have variety it’s not hard at all.

I know it can be done. I shut down my indoor grow for a few months a year these days and just grow some plants outdoors in the summer. I really like the break from the indoor and when I start back up I just pop some seeds. I couldn't do that if I had to maintain mothers.

I just have a different reason for growing than many so I don't grow from clones and have no need for mother plants.

 

[outside Dixie]

Just came across a website where the cheapest clones available were $150, and those were on sale! the ones not on sale averaged $500 with the popular clones going at $1500. WTF!? Dude ..what's up with that? How do clones genetics compare to seeds. Isn't there a little trade off when going clones?

Home - King Kong Clones

godzillaclones.com

Im sorry Ya'll But that is crazy.There is no plant worth that... With Ya'll indoors what you How much will you get !! I still not sure why everybody does indoors SEEDS

 

[lusidghost]

Lmao all my growing has been underground prohibition state growing until the last 2 years. As long as I kept it under the federal 99 I wasn’t even thinking about counts. The reality is small mother plants can even support a SOG grow. I typically had 45 plants in a 4x4 flood tray at all times. There was usually 4 cycles at a time about 3 weeks apart. All supported off a few mother’s in 6inch square pots of hydroton under a T5.

If you are a person that NEEDS to respect plant count then obviously that should be a consideration when deciding how you wanna set up a garden.

These are around 4-5 months old. A single branch can be turned into a temporary mother. They just got their hair cut.

 

[BlandMeow]

If I could order a pack of seeds and each seed produce the exact same/or very similar plant, then I would choose seed every time.

 

[ComputerSaysNo]

If I could order a pack of seeds and each seed produce the exact same/or very similar plant, then I would choose seed every time.

But only because in your head those plants would turn out exactly how you would like them (i.e in fantasy land they're all perfect).

In reality, it's better that there is variety, because only that enables us to pick from the variety and make clones of the phenos that we actually want.

Don't get me wrong, I like "fantasy land" myself, only problem is it does not exist.

 

[speedwell68]

Clones invite pests and disease. Seeds don’t. I like seeds. I like to buy them and I like to make them.

The only pests I have ever had to deal with is Fungus Gnats and I seem to get them regardless of whether it is a clone or from seed.

 

[BlandMeow]

But only because in your head those plants would turn out exactly how you would like them (i.e in fantasy land they're all perfect).

In reality, it's better that there is variety, because only that enables us to pick from the variety and make clones of the phenos that we actually want.

Don't get me wrong, I like "fantasy land" myself, only problem is it does not exist.

Are cannabis plants inherently different from vegetable plants, in that seeds can't be made to be more homogenous? Or does just takes a dedicated approach to breeding the line that will likely come with the fall off prohibition?

If I buy a pack of better boy tomato seeds, they are all going to be relatively the same plant. That hasn't stopped people from creating the best boy hybrid! I still think there will be plenty of variety and innovation.

 

[xtsho]

Are cannabis plants inherently different from vegetable plants, in that seeds can't be made to be more homogenous? Or does just takes a dedicated approach to breeding the line that will likely come with the fall off prohibition?

If I buy a pack of better boy tomato seeds, they are all going to be relatively the same plant. That hasn't stopped people from creating the best boy hybrid! I still think there will be plenty of variety and innovation.

It takes a dedication to breeding which is something today's pollen chuckers are not doing. Many probably spend more time on social media pumping their stuff using multiple accounts.

Cannabis can be bred to produce seed of identical plants just like you can with tomatoes. The difference being that those tomato varieties that breed true have been worked on for years to reach the point where they are stabilized and produce the same plant from seed. When you see all this pheno hunting from this line or that line and searching from a dozen different phenos to find a good one that just shows that the seeds didn't come from someone doing actual breeding but just pollen chucking. There are not many actual breeders that spend the time. If you're getting more than a couple different pheno's then you're getting a pollen chuck.

 

[lusidghost]

It takes a dedication to breeding which is something today's pollen chuckers are not doing. Many probably spend more time on social media pumping their stuff using multiple accounts.

Cannabis can be bred to produce seed of identical plants just like you can with tomatoes. The difference being that those tomato varieties that breed true have been worked on for years to reach the point where they are stabilized and produce the same plant from seed. When you see all this pheno hunting from this line or that line and searching from a dozen different phenos to find a good one that just shows that the seeds didn't come from someone doing actual breeding but just pollen chucking. There are not many actual breeders that spend the time. If you're getting more than a couple different pheno's then you're getting a pollen chuck.

While I agree, I want seeds from a bunch of authentic, elite cuts so that I have a lot of phenos to choose from. Which is what the reputable "chuckers" provide. I don't really hunt to find the plant in the picture, or the perfect hybrid of the parents. I hunt to hopefully find something unique, based off of the lineage. If I don't find a unicorn I look for strong leaners.

 

[BlandMeow]

Pheno’s. If I have a seed run and the differences are slight, is it a different pheno? How much similar?

I ran a 13 pack of Second Generation Key Lime Chem. Of the females that came from it, 4 were pretty close indica heavy but still had subtle differences, while the 5th was totally different with more sativa traits.

That's no where close to what you get from modern vegetable gardening. If you are a competent gardener, you'll reach close to the same results as the seed catalog. No variation in branch spacing, fruit size, ripening, etc.

 

[xtsho]

While I agree, I want seeds from a bunch of authentic, elite cuts so that I have a lot of phenos to choose from. Which is what the reputable "chuckers" provide. I don't really hunt to find the plant in the picture, or the perfect hybrid of the parents. I hunt to hopefully find something unique, based off of the lineage. If I don't find a unicorn I look for strong leaners.

I was reading that and when you said "authentic" I was going "What the hell?". Then you tossed in the "reputable chucker" phrase and that balanced everything out.

I never thought about it but I guess there are authentic pollen chuckers.