DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Jack Smith CLOSING IN on ANOTHER Trump Indictment
TRUMP INDICTED
- Thread starter jimihendrix1
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Jack Smith CLOSING IN on ANOTHER Trump Indictment
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
BudmanTX
Well-Known Member
If CRIMINALS are the 'embodiment". NO THANKS!
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
A surprising number of voters thinks otherwise.
Shark requires special treatment. You have to bleed it immediately. Thresher is good and so is Leopard which tastes more like the crab it eats.
The surprise will be after the election when Trump is in prison and you guys are crying. Can's say he doesn't deserve it admitting guilt EVERYTIME HE OPENS HIS MOUTH.
BudmanTX
Well-Known Member
Thanks, I will give it a read when I get back to the office Monday
BudmanTX
Well-Known Member
Why would we be crying?
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
“you guys”?
printer
Well-Known Member
Barr blasts Trump’s defense in document case as ‘absurd’
Former Attorney General Bill Barr blasted former President Trump’s defense in the classified documents case as “absurd” and said the former president “absolutely” was mischaracterizing the Presidential Records Act.
“The legal theory by which he gets to take battle plans and sensitive national security information as his personal papers is absurd. It’s just as wacky as the legal doctrine they came up with for having the vice president unilaterally determine who won the election,” Barr told Robert Costa on CBS News’s “Face the Nation” in an interview Sunday morning.
Trump was not charged with violating the Presidential Records Act, but he and some supporters have cited the act to claim Trump was allowed to take the sensitive material after he left the White House.
“The whole purpose of the statute, the Presidential Records Act, was to stop presidents from taking official documents out of the White House. It was passed after Watergate. That’s the whole purpose of it. And therefore, it restricted what a president can take. It says it’s purely private, that have nothing to do with the deliberations of government policy,” Barr said Sunday.
“Obviously, these documents are not purely private, it’s obvious. And they’re not even now arguing that it’s purely private. What they’re saying is the President just has sweeping discretion to say they are, even though they squarely don’t fall within the definition. It’s an absurd argument,” Barr added.
Trump was indicted on 37 counts of criminal charges related to his handling of classified documents. He was accused of obstructing a federal investigation and willfully retaining national defense information. He pleaded not guilty.
Barr broke with Trump in 2020 when the former attorney general would not uphold claims of voter fraud. He is among a list of past administration officials who have voiced criticisms of the former president following the indictment.
Barr also said Republicans who point to this case as evidence of the Justice Department acting politically are “wrong.”
“The Department had no choice but to seek those documents. [Those Republicans’] basic argument really isn’t to defend his conduct, because Trump’s conduct is indefensible. What they’re really saying is, he should get a pass because Hillary Clinton got a pass six or seven years ago,” Barr said. “That’s not a frivolous argument. But I’m not sure that’s true.”
“If you want to restore the rule of law and equal justice, you don’t do it by further derogating from justice. You do it by applying the right standard here. And that’s not unfair to Trump because this is not a case where Trump is innocent and being unfairly hounded. He committed the crime, or if he did commit the crime, it’s not unfair to hold them to that standard,” he said.
thehill.com
Former Attorney General Bill Barr blasted former President Trump’s defense in the classified documents case as “absurd” and said the former president “absolutely” was mischaracterizing the Presidential Records Act.
“The legal theory by which he gets to take battle plans and sensitive national security information as his personal papers is absurd. It’s just as wacky as the legal doctrine they came up with for having the vice president unilaterally determine who won the election,” Barr told Robert Costa on CBS News’s “Face the Nation” in an interview Sunday morning.
Trump was not charged with violating the Presidential Records Act, but he and some supporters have cited the act to claim Trump was allowed to take the sensitive material after he left the White House.
“The whole purpose of the statute, the Presidential Records Act, was to stop presidents from taking official documents out of the White House. It was passed after Watergate. That’s the whole purpose of it. And therefore, it restricted what a president can take. It says it’s purely private, that have nothing to do with the deliberations of government policy,” Barr said Sunday.
“Obviously, these documents are not purely private, it’s obvious. And they’re not even now arguing that it’s purely private. What they’re saying is the President just has sweeping discretion to say they are, even though they squarely don’t fall within the definition. It’s an absurd argument,” Barr added.
Trump was indicted on 37 counts of criminal charges related to his handling of classified documents. He was accused of obstructing a federal investigation and willfully retaining national defense information. He pleaded not guilty.
Barr broke with Trump in 2020 when the former attorney general would not uphold claims of voter fraud. He is among a list of past administration officials who have voiced criticisms of the former president following the indictment.
Barr also said Republicans who point to this case as evidence of the Justice Department acting politically are “wrong.”
“The Department had no choice but to seek those documents. [Those Republicans’] basic argument really isn’t to defend his conduct, because Trump’s conduct is indefensible. What they’re really saying is, he should get a pass because Hillary Clinton got a pass six or seven years ago,” Barr said. “That’s not a frivolous argument. But I’m not sure that’s true.”
“If you want to restore the rule of law and equal justice, you don’t do it by further derogating from justice. You do it by applying the right standard here. And that’s not unfair to Trump because this is not a case where Trump is innocent and being unfairly hounded. He committed the crime, or if he did commit the crime, it’s not unfair to hold them to that standard,” he said.
Barr blasts Trump’s defense in document case as ‘absurd’
Former Attorney General Bill Barr blasted former President Trump’s defense in the classified documents case as “absurd” and said the former president “absolutely” was mischaracterizing the Presiden…
thehill.com
printer
Well-Known Member
Esper: Trump known as ‘hoarder’ of classified documents
Former Defense Secretary Mark Esper on Sunday said former President Trump has been described as a “hoarder” of classified documents, in the wake of Trump facing federal charges over his alleged mishandling of some of the nation’s top secrets.
Presented with suggestions both that Trump kept the documents “like a child with a toy” and that he kept them for financial or power reasons, Esper said on CNN’s “State of the Union” that he thinks “both theories could be true and likely are true to some extent.”
“People have described him as a hoarder when it comes to these type of documents. But, clearly, it was unauthorized, illegal and dangerous,” Esper said of Trump.
“And, look, we have a case playing out right now in Massachusetts where that young airman from the Massachusetts National Guard is being charged on similar types of accounts under the Espionage Act for taking and retaining unauthorized documents that affected our national defense.”
Trump earlier this month pleaded not guilty to 37 counts related to allegations that he violated the Espionage Act and obstructed justice by taking classified records with him after his presidency and then refusing to turn them over to the government.
Esper on Sunday also agreed that, if the indictment’s charges are proven true, Trump can’t be trusted with the nation’s secrets again, even as Trump runs for another four years in the White House in the 2024 presidential race.
“I mean, it’s just irresponsible action that places our service members at risk, places our nation’s security at risk. You cannot have these documents floating around. They need to be secured. We know how that happens, that only authorized persons are allowed to see documents or receive information from documents,” Esper said.
The former defense secretary explained concerns that foreign agents or another country could “discover documents that outline America’s vulnerabilities or the weaknesses of the United States military” that could then be exploited against the U.S.
“Think about how that could be exploited, how that could be used against us in a conflict, how an enemy could develop countermeasures, things like that. Or, in the case of the most significant piece that was raised in the allegation, about U.S. plans to attack Iran, think about how that affects our readiness, our ability to prosecute an attack, if indeed we know that Iran eventually develops a nuclear weapon and we need to act on it,” Esper said.
The DOJ reportedly has a July 2021 audio recording in which Trump discusses a classified Pentagon document detailing a potential U.S. attack on Iran.
“So, I’m quite concerned about this. These are very serious allegations and need to be taken seriously by everybody involved.”
thehill.com
Former Defense Secretary Mark Esper on Sunday said former President Trump has been described as a “hoarder” of classified documents, in the wake of Trump facing federal charges over his alleged mishandling of some of the nation’s top secrets.
Presented with suggestions both that Trump kept the documents “like a child with a toy” and that he kept them for financial or power reasons, Esper said on CNN’s “State of the Union” that he thinks “both theories could be true and likely are true to some extent.”
“People have described him as a hoarder when it comes to these type of documents. But, clearly, it was unauthorized, illegal and dangerous,” Esper said of Trump.
“And, look, we have a case playing out right now in Massachusetts where that young airman from the Massachusetts National Guard is being charged on similar types of accounts under the Espionage Act for taking and retaining unauthorized documents that affected our national defense.”
Trump earlier this month pleaded not guilty to 37 counts related to allegations that he violated the Espionage Act and obstructed justice by taking classified records with him after his presidency and then refusing to turn them over to the government.
Esper on Sunday also agreed that, if the indictment’s charges are proven true, Trump can’t be trusted with the nation’s secrets again, even as Trump runs for another four years in the White House in the 2024 presidential race.
“I mean, it’s just irresponsible action that places our service members at risk, places our nation’s security at risk. You cannot have these documents floating around. They need to be secured. We know how that happens, that only authorized persons are allowed to see documents or receive information from documents,” Esper said.
The former defense secretary explained concerns that foreign agents or another country could “discover documents that outline America’s vulnerabilities or the weaknesses of the United States military” that could then be exploited against the U.S.
“Think about how that could be exploited, how that could be used against us in a conflict, how an enemy could develop countermeasures, things like that. Or, in the case of the most significant piece that was raised in the allegation, about U.S. plans to attack Iran, think about how that affects our readiness, our ability to prosecute an attack, if indeed we know that Iran eventually develops a nuclear weapon and we need to act on it,” Esper said.
The DOJ reportedly has a July 2021 audio recording in which Trump discusses a classified Pentagon document detailing a potential U.S. attack on Iran.
“So, I’m quite concerned about this. These are very serious allegations and need to be taken seriously by everybody involved.”
Esper: Trump known as ‘hoarder’ of classified documents
Former Defense Secretary Mark Esper on Sunday said former President Trump has been described as a “hoarder” of classified documents, in the wake of Trump facing federal charges over his…
thehill.com
topcat
Well-Known Member
Joy.
BudmanTX
Well-Known Member
Possible
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
We'll see more arguments like this at his trial. To me, it's a plea to emotion. "he's a naughty little child" or "he's a hoarder". It is a plea to emotion and an excuse to justify a light sentence or even finding him innocent.Esper: Trump known as ‘hoarder’ of classified documents
Former Defense Secretary Mark Esper on Sunday said former President Trump has been described as a “hoarder” of classified documents, in the wake of Trump facing federal charges over his alleged mishandling of some of the nation’s top secrets.
Presented with suggestions both that Trump kept the documents “like a child with a toy” and that he kept them for financial or power reasons, Esper said on CNN’s “State of the Union” that he thinks “both theories could be true and likely are true to some extent.”
“People have described him as a hoarder when it comes to these type of documents. But, clearly, it was unauthorized, illegal and dangerous,” Esper said of Trump.
“And, look, we have a case playing out right now in Massachusetts where that young airman from the Massachusetts National Guard is being charged on similar types of accounts under the Espionage Act for taking and retaining unauthorized documents that affected our national defense.”
Trump earlier this month pleaded not guilty to 37 counts related to allegations that he violated the Espionage Act and obstructed justice by taking classified records with him after his presidency and then refusing to turn them over to the government.
Esper on Sunday also agreed that, if the indictment’s charges are proven true, Trump can’t be trusted with the nation’s secrets again, even as Trump runs for another four years in the White House in the 2024 presidential race.
“I mean, it’s just irresponsible action that places our service members at risk, places our nation’s security at risk. You cannot have these documents floating around. They need to be secured. We know how that happens, that only authorized persons are allowed to see documents or receive information from documents,” Esper said.
The former defense secretary explained concerns that foreign agents or another country could “discover documents that outline America’s vulnerabilities or the weaknesses of the United States military” that could then be exploited against the U.S.
“Think about how that could be exploited, how that could be used against us in a conflict, how an enemy could develop countermeasures, things like that. Or, in the case of the most significant piece that was raised in the allegation, about U.S. plans to attack Iran, think about how that affects our readiness, our ability to prosecute an attack, if indeed we know that Iran eventually develops a nuclear weapon and we need to act on it,” Esper said.
The DOJ reportedly has a July 2021 audio recording in which Trump discusses a classified Pentagon document detailing a potential U.S. attack on Iran.
“So, I’m quite concerned about this. These are very serious allegations and need to be taken seriously by everybody involved.”
Esper: Trump known as ‘hoarder’ of classified documents
Former Defense Secretary Mark Esper on Sunday said former President Trump has been described as a “hoarder” of classified documents, in the wake of Trump facing federal charges over his…
But let the evidence presented at trial tell its own story. More likely, Trump had a purpose in what he was doing. It isn't that he's a hoarder, it's that he is greedy. Those documents were valuable. More valuable than hundreds of times their weight in platinum. To people like Trump, money is power. Instead of "he was being childish", Trump was being greedy and was unwilling to part with those documents without benefitting him in some personal way. He is completely able and willing to sell documents worth the lives of patriots to others for influence. So eff this appeal to emotion for the little lost boy. He is a greedy asshole and let the worst possible things happen to him.
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
Hoarding isn’t an extenuating factor. In the instance of one who took the oaths of office, it works against him.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
It depends on the purpose. If it's hoarding for its own sake, that is one thing. It ends there with the crime of taking and keeping that which was not his. I could be excused as a harmless obsession. If he was hoarding to use them for personal gain, that would be worse and inexcusable.
I think some leaders in the fascist right are fabricating an excuse for a pardon.
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
I have a somewhat different perspective.
Hoarding in violation of the oaths of office is imo a prima facie hostile act to the sound operating of the government.
Not sure how that will play in court. But it makes sense to me.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Motive does not matter much in this case. He saw value in the physical documents, but the value was in the contents which could be easily copied with a cellphone. However, being able to flash the documents around and keep them with the rest of his other junk points to ego, he never even made an effort to separate and sort out the classified material after having it for months. Jared would have just taken pictures with a cellphone and sold them to the Saudi's, but Donald wanted the originals or photocopies of them. He did say at one interview that Nixon got 18 million for what he had and perhaps he thought the government would pay him to get the documents back.
It was an unforced error and he left himself wide open after being given plenty of chances to come clean, it is also a very easy case to prove and carries serious prison time. Additional indictments could be coming in NJ of the docs and DC is another possibility, I find it hard to believe that just Trump and Nauta will be charged over this.