Palin On Health Bill

[UncleBuck]

I’d like to see the statistics on how many people are dropped by insurance companies. I know several people who have pre existing conditions that have health insurance. You just have to be willing to pay for it.

i'd also like to see stats of how many people the health insurers drop to keep their profits at $850 billion instead of $950 billion. and also how many people they charge ridiculous amounts to insure, like my wife (care to guess how many insurers refused to insure her before she found her plan?).

did you hear how some insurers just decided to not offer plans for children rather than have to insure the ones with pre-existing conditions? i don't know about you, but denying health to the most vulnerable in our society for the pursuit of huge profits like that sickens and disgusts me. it is one of those unintended yet reprehensible side effects of an otherwise mostly acceptable capitalist system.

It’s a disaster and it’s going to make things worse not better. I’m not saying things don’t need to change but Obama Care is not it.

then tell me which of these provisions that took effect today are disagreeable to you and why...

Effective September 23, 2010

• Dependents (children) will be permitted to remain on their parents' insurance plan until their 26th birthday,[41] and regulations implemented under the Act include dependents that no longer live with their parents, are not a dependent on a parent’s tax return, are no longer a student, or are married.[42][43]
• Insurers are prohibited from excluding pre-existing medical conditions (except in grandfathered individual health insurance plans) for children under the age of 19.[44][45]
• Insurers are prohibited from charging co-payments or deductibles for Level A or Level B preventive care and medical screenings on all new insurance plans.[46]
• Individuals affected by the Medicare Part D coverage gap will receive a $250 rebate, and 50% of the gap will be eliminated in 2011.[47] The gap will be eliminated by 2020.
• Insurers' abilities to enforce annual spending caps will be restricted, and completely prohibited by 2014.[31]
• Insurers are prohibited from dropping policyholders when they get sick.[31]
• Insurers are required to reveal details about administrative and executive expenditures.[31]
• Insurers are required to implement an appeals process for coverage determination and claims on all new plans.[31]
• Indoor tanning services are subjected to a 10% service tax.[31]
• Enhanced methods of fraud detection are implemented.[31]
• Medicare is expanded to small, rural hospitals and facilities.[31]
• Non-profit Blue Cross insurers are required to maintain a loss ratio (money spent on procedures over money incoming) of 85% or higher to take advantage of IRS tax benefits.[31]
• Companies which provide early retiree benefits for individuals aged 55–64 are eligible to participate in a temporary program which reduces premium costs.[31]
• A new website installed by the Secretary of Health and Human Services will provide consumer insurance information for individuals and small businesses in all states.[31]
• A temporary credit program is established to encourage private investment in new therapies for disease treatment and prevention.[31]

 

[UncleBuck]

So you deny that sharing borders with two foreign power enhances her foreign policy credentials?

If you are making that assertion, then the burden of proof is on you.

i never made that assertion, that is the political genius of johnny tryingto shift the burden of proof. nice try.

please tell me how being in close proximity to russia and canada boosts her foreign policy credentials in any substantive type of way. the burden of proof is on you, since you are defending ms. bendy straw.

 

[Johnnyorganic]

i never made that assertion, that is the political genius of johnny tryingto shift the burden of proof. nice try.

please tell me how being in close proximity to russia and canada boosts her foreign policy credentials in any substantive type of way. the burden of proof is on you, since you are defending ms. bendy straw.

Now look here, I'm no Palin fan either.

But denying that the Governor of a state that shares borders with two foreign powers has experience dealing with foreign diplomacy is not a hill worth dying over.

My proof is geography.

So do your worst.

 

[UncleBuck]

i am not denying shit, like that it may help her with those scant few trade missions she mentioned, but not much else. could you imagine that bobblehead dealing with russia or iran?

as opposed to the alternative, who just added another notch in his foreign policy success belt today.

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/09/nyet-russia-now-wont-sell-badass-missile-to-iran/

how's that hope-y change-y thing working out? better than the alternative.

so tell me, if this for you is a hill worth dying over: how does the proximity of russia to alaska substantively enhance her overall foreign policy credentials?

that was, after all, the question couric posed to ms. bendy straw.

 

[jeff f]

palin carries a retard around to feel smart

while i hate you, thats fucking funny.

 

[UncleBuck]

while i hate you, thats fucking funny.

it's funny because it's true!

 

[don2009]

I would love palin to give me a BJ THATS ALL SHE GOOD FOR.

 

[UncleBuck]

I would love palin to give me a BJ THATS ALL SHE GOOD FOR.

not true, she also makes for fabulous entertainment.

 

[Johnnyorganic]

i am not denying shit, like that it may help her with those scant few trade missions she mentioned, but not much else. could you imagine that bobblehead dealing with russia or iran?

as opposed to the alternative, who just added another notch in his foreign policy success belt today.

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/09/nyet-russia-now-wont-sell-badass-missile-to-iran/

how's that hope-y change-y thing working out? better than the alternative.

so tell me, if this for you is a hill worth dying over: how does the proximity of russia to alaska substantively enhance her overall foreign policy credentials?

that was, after all, the question couric posed to ms. bendy straw.

Obfuscation will not help you.

Neither will deflection.

Buck, you are pinned down.

Does the Governor of state which borders two foreign countries have experience in foreign relations?

Yes or no.

It's that simple.

I'll call for the medic.

 

[UncleBuck]

obfuscation and deflection, thy names is johnnyo.

i already agreed (ie, yes) it may help her in a scant few ways.

i also asked you: how does the proximity of russia to alaska substantively enhance her overall foreign policy credentials?

you are pinned down.

don't call the medic, i have no insurance currently. i could use one though, woke up this morning and pulled the shit out of a back muscle. couldn't move all day. ironically, i got my 'medical marijuana' under the pretenses that it might alleviate this very ailment. hahahhaha, i got it so i could grow wth less worry.

 

[Johnnyorganic]

obfuscation and deflection, thy names is johnnyo.

i already agreed (ie, yes) it may help her in a scant few ways.

i also asked you: how does the proximity of russia to alaska substantively enhance her overall foreign policy credentials?

you are pinned down.

don't call the medic, i have no insurance currently. i could use one though, woke up this morning and pulled the shit out of a back muscle. couldn't move all day. ironically, i got my 'medical marijuana' under the pretenses that it might alleviate this very ailment. hahahhaha, i got it so i could grow wth less worry.

So you made the assault up that hill for nothing.

I warned you.

Too bad.

And too bad you brought up The Messiah and foreign policy in a thread that had absolutely nothing to do with him or his disastrous Presidency.

Still, the diplomatic isolation of Iran may have taken a step forward today — as did the viability of a military strike on Iran if diplomacy ultimately fails to stop Iranian nuclear-weapons development. Cohen says the blocked sale shows Israel’s “success in lobbying Mr. Putin directly” and wonders about any Gates-Serdyukov “quid pro quo,” since the volte-face on the S-300 “was announced right after” the rare Russian visit to the Pentagon. (Neither State Department nor Defense Department spokespeople responded to requests for comment.) Now to see whether the loss of the S-300s changes Iran’s nuclear gambit.

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/09/nyet-russia-now-wont-sell-badass-missile-to-iran/#ixzz10QRW3Sm9


​

 

[UncleBuck]

So you made the assault up that hill for nothing.

you dance well. especially around questions you don't want to answer, such as the on i have posed to you several times now. you ever gonna answer, or just keep dancing?

you call economic isolation disastrous? tell that to iran. or cuba.

nothing about the success of the obama administration in this matter precludes the use of further force if necessary. in fact, this step forward lessens the likelihood it will even be needed.

i brought that up because it is the type of thing that would be laughable to think palin could have brokered, despite being oh so close to russia.

do you care to weigh in on what parts of the messiah's obamacare that took effect today are offensive to you? no one else seems to want to answer...

Effective September 23, 2010

• Dependents (children) will be permitted to remain on their parents' insurance plan until their 26th birthday,[41] and regulations implemented under the Act include dependents that no longer live with their parents, are not a dependent on a parent’s tax return, are no longer a student, or are married.[42][43]
• Insurers are prohibited from excluding pre-existing medical conditions (except in grandfathered individual health insurance plans) for children under the age of 19.[44][45]
• Insurers are prohibited from charging co-payments or deductibles for Level A or Level B preventive care and medical screenings on all new insurance plans.[46]
• Individuals affected by the Medicare Part D coverage gap will receive a $250 rebate, and 50% of the gap will be eliminated in 2011.[47] The gap will be eliminated by 2020.
• Insurers' abilities to enforce annual spending caps will be restricted, and completely prohibited by 2014.[31]
• Insurers are prohibited from dropping policyholders when they get sick.[31]
• Insurers are required to reveal details about administrative and executive expenditures.[31]
• Insurers are required to implement an appeals process for coverage determination and claims on all new plans.[31]
• Indoor tanning services are subjected to a 10% service tax.[31]
• Enhanced methods of fraud detection are implemented.[31]
• Medicare is expanded to small, rural hospitals and facilities.[31]
• Non-profit Blue Cross insurers are required to maintain a loss ratio (money spent on procedures over money incoming) of 85% or higher to take advantage of IRS tax benefits.[31]
• Companies which provide early retiree benefits for individuals aged 55–64 are eligible to participate in a temporary program which reduces premium costs.[31]
• A new website installed by the Secretary of Health and Human Services will provide consumer insurance information for individuals and small businesses in all states.[31]
• A temporary credit program is established to encourage private investment in new therapies for disease treatment and prevention.[31]

you can answer one or both of my questions, or keep dancing. your call.

 

[Johnnyorganic]

you dance well. especially around questions you don't want to answer, such as the on i have posed to you several times now. you ever gonna answer, or just keep dancing?

you call economic isolation disastrous? tell that to iran. or cuba.

nothing about the success of the obama administration in this matter precludes the use of further force if necessary. in fact, this step forward lessens the likelihood it will even be needed.

i brought that up because it is the type of thing that would be laughable to think palin could have brokered, despite being oh so close to russia.

do you care to weigh in on what parts of the messiah's obamacare that took effect today are offensive to you? no one else seems to want to answer...

Effective September 23, 2010

• Dependents (children) will be permitted to remain on their parents' insurance plan until their 26th birthday,[41] and regulations implemented under the Act include dependents that no longer live with their parents, are not a dependent on a parent’s tax return, are no longer a student, or are married.[42][43]
• Insurers are prohibited from excluding pre-existing medical conditions (except in grandfathered individual health insurance plans) for children under the age of 19.[44][45]
• Insurers are prohibited from charging co-payments or deductibles for Level A or Level B preventive care and medical screenings on all new insurance plans.[46]
• Individuals affected by the Medicare Part D coverage gap will receive a $250 rebate, and 50% of the gap will be eliminated in 2011.[47] The gap will be eliminated by 2020.
• Insurers' abilities to enforce annual spending caps will be restricted, and completely prohibited by 2014.[31]
• Insurers are prohibited from dropping policyholders when they get sick.[31]
• Insurers are required to reveal details about administrative and executive expenditures.[31]
• Insurers are required to implement an appeals process for coverage determination and claims on all new plans.[31]
• Indoor tanning services are subjected to a 10% service tax.[31]
• Enhanced methods of fraud detection are implemented.[31]
• Medicare is expanded to small, rural hospitals and facilities.[31]
• Non-profit Blue Cross insurers are required to maintain a loss ratio (money spent on procedures over money incoming) of 85% or higher to take advantage of IRS tax benefits.[31]
• Companies which provide early retiree benefits for individuals aged 55–64 are eligible to participate in a temporary program which reduces premium costs.[31]
• A new website installed by the Secretary of Health and Human Services will provide consumer insurance information for individuals and small businesses in all states.[31]
• A temporary credit program is established to encourage private investment in new therapies for disease treatment and prevention.[31]

you can answer one or both of my questions, or keep dancing. your call.

What question did I not want to answer? The overall part?

Well, it was a stupid question meant to trip her up in the interview. Gotcha! journalism at its finest.

As governor of a state bordering two different countries, that was her overall foreign policy experience. But that, after all, is not the point of the question because Couric brushed aside the experience she did have just as you did.

It sure would have been great if Obama, who was actually running for President, had been asked these probing questions prior to the election.

What, were on another topic now?

Okay. I'll start with my favorite jab against Progressives - tax increases. In this case creation of a brand new tax.

10% tax on tanning services.

Juxtapose that against this pledge made by Candidate Messiah.

[video=youtube;6HE-rGGKksQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HE-rGGKksQ[/video]

You want another one?

Requiring Insurance companies to cover adult children on their parent's policies until age 26(!) means premiums go up for everyone, but the companies get the blame for price gouging.

In fact, every time one of your points begins with "Insurance companies are prohibited from", or "Insurance companies are required to;" it adds to the cost of doing business and premiums naturally go up. But the Dummycrats can use any increase in premiums resulting from MessiahCare as a club to further demonize the industry.

It's brilliant really.

Diabolical, but brilliant all the same.

 

[Johnnyorganic]

My copy & paste can beat up your copy & paste.

» Obamacare won't decrease health care costs for the government. According to Medicare's actuary, it will increase costs. The same is likely to happen for privately funded health care.

» As written, Obamacare covers elective abortions, contrary to Obama's promise that it wouldn't. This means that tax dollars will be used to pay for a procedure millions of Americans across the political spectrum view as immoral. Supposedly, the Department of Health and Human Services will bar abortion coverage with new regulations but these will likely be tied up for years in litigation, and in the end may not survive the court challenge.

» Obamacare won't allow employees or most small businesses to keep the coverage they have and like. By Obama's estimates, as many as 69 percent of employees, 80 percent of small businesses, and 64 percent of large businesses will be forced to change coverage, probably to more expensive plans.

» Obamacare will increase insurance premiums -- in some places, it already has. Insurers, suddenly forced to cover clients' children until age 26, have little choice but to raise premiums, and they attribute to Obamacare's mandates a 1 to 9 percent increase. Obama's only method of preventing massive rate increases so far has been to threaten insurers.

» Obamacare will force seasonal employers -- especially the ski and amusement park industries -- to pay huge fines, cut hours, or lay off employees.

» Obamacare forces states to guarantee not only payment but also treatment for indigent Medicaid patients. With many doctors now refusing to take Medicaid (because they lose money doing so), cash-strapped states could be sued and ordered to increase reimbursement rates beyond their means.

» Obamacare imposes a huge nonmedical tax compliance burden on small business. It will require them to mail IRS 1099 tax forms to every vendor from whom they make purchases of more than $600 in a year, with duplicate forms going to the Internal Revenue Service. Like so much else in the 2,500-page bill, our senators and representatives were apparently unaware of this when they passed the measure.

» Obamacare allows the IRS to confiscate part or all of your tax refund if you do not purchase a qualified insurance plan. The bill funds 16,000 new IRS agents to make sure Americans stay in line.​

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/Obamacare-is-even-worse-than-critics-thought-960772-103571664.html#ixzz10SjvrYcY

 

[BudMcLovin]

i'd also like to see stats of how many people the health insurers drop to keep their profits at $850 billion instead of $950 billion. and also how many people they charge ridiculous amounts to insure, like my wife (care to guess how many insurers refused to insure her before she found her plan?).

If your wife has a pre existing medical problems she should have to pay more. Should auto insurance companies be required to fix cars if people who buy insurance after a wreck?
Do you understand economics? Companies can’t stay in business operating at a loss. Oh and it’s million not billion. And why would they drop people that increase their profit?“the industry "Health Care Plans" ranks #86 by profit margin (profits/revenue) at 3.3%. Measured by profit margin, there are 85 industries more profitable than Health Care Plans”
http://seekingalpha.com/article/155858-health-insurance-industry-s-profit-margins-rank-86

did you hear how some insurers just decided to not offer plans for children rather than have to insure the ones with pre-existing conditions? i don't know about you, but denying health to the most vulnerable in our society for the pursuit of huge profits like that sickens and disgusts me. it is one of those unintended yet reprehensible side effects of an otherwise mostly acceptable capitalist system.

It sickens you because you don’t understand insurance companies are not in business to lose money. It makes perfect since from an economics point of view. Oh and here’s an an article about that insurance companies dropping coverage for children. “Some U.S. health insurers say they will stop writing policies for children in light of new regulations that bar rejection based on pre-existing conditions.” http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2010/09/22/Some-insurers-to-stop-covering-children/UPI-61321285198268/
How about doctors dropping Medicare patients.
http://money.cnn.com/2010/02/24/news/economy/doctors_ditching_medicare_patients/
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7009807.html

You know I was going to go point by point but there is no point. I don’t have the time. How about you answer a few question for me?

First and foremost where in the Constitution does the government get the authority to regulate heath care? How does any of this improve health care? So I should have to pay higher premiums and higher taxes to support people who don’t want to pay for their own health care? What about my right to my personal property? Why do they have a greater right to my property than I do? How is Obama Care going to make America a freer nation?

 

[redivider]

All I know is President Obama said “If you have insurance that you like you will be able to keep it”. He also said it would get cheaper. It’s all a load of crap. I got a packet in the mail the other day notifying me my insurance plan is changing because of the new regulations. The costs of the new plans are drastically higher. Now that’s change that really hurts my wallet. Also not one of them covers the dentist I’ve been seeing for the last 6 or 7 years. There are no cost savings in this disaster of a law. Obama Care will create over 100 new government bureaucracies.
[video=youtube;U0XCl6OHgiM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0XCl6OHgiM&feature=player_embedded#![/video]

I’m just glad the lying bastard will have his legislative balls cut off in November. Hopefully the damn republicans can stick to their word this time. Last time they had control they doubling the size of government in 10 years. So we might be fucked either way.

you'll be able to enjoy tax credits to help you offset all the increase in costs. if you don't, then it's not obama's fault you're not taking full advantage of the law.

and your premiums went up because the company can't deny you coverage due to pre-existing conditions. that fucks up the cost/profit formula they have setup for you, so they have to raise your premiums, because they are not going to allow their profits to increase by less than 10% per year.

 

[ink the world]

It sickens you because you don’t understand insurance companies are not in business to lose money.

It sickens me that health care is a for profit business, it also sickens me that the mightiest country on Earth doesnt have the best health care system.

 

[UncleBuck]

What question did I not want to answer? The overall part?

Well, it was a stupid question meant to trip her up in the interview. Gotcha! journalism at its finest.

yes, the overall and the substantive part. but it seems you are not trying to argue that her geography gives her any substantive foreign policy experience. i think we are on the same page...sure it gives her some experience, nothing substantial like she was trying to bill it as though.

excuse me for a while as i laugh at your characterization of that as gotcha journalism...

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

What, we're on another topic now?

Okay. I'll start with my favorite jab against Progressives - tax increases. In this case creation of a brand new tax.

10% tax on tanning services.

Juxtapose that against this pledge made by Candidate Messiah.

he was clearly referring to the taxes you pay at the end of the year. he even enumerated them: income taxes, payroll taxes, capital gains taxes.

besides, like the cigarette tax, it's a tax you can choose not to pay.

i bet next you'll argue that tanning in the sun is tax evasion.

You want another one?

Requiring Insurance companies to cover adult children on their parent's policies until age 26(!) means premiums go up for everyone, but the companies get the blame for price gouging.

In fact, every time one of your points begins with "Insurance companies are prohibited from", or "Insurance companies are required to;" it adds to the cost of doing business and premiums naturally go up. But the Dummycrats can use any increase in premiums resulting from MessiahCare as a club to further demonize the industry.

It's brilliant really.

Diabolical, but brilliant all the same.

what, you don't think health insurers deserve a little demonization? they clearly favor their own profits over the health of the people they insure.

de·mon

   /ˈdi

mən/ Show Spelled[dee-muh

n] Show IPA
–noun 1. an evil spirit; devil or fiend.

2. an evil passion or influence.

3. a person considered extremely wicked, evil, or cruel.

yep, i would consider their well-documented practices of dropping people once they get sick to be extremely wicked, evil, or cruel. too bad they can't do that anymore, thanks to the messiah (god it cracks me up how you guys refer to him that way....still).

in germany, they bar health insurers from making profits, yet they are still extremely competitive.

health insurers not only do all sorts of despicable practices, they also price gouge no matter what. can you name anything else that doubled in cost over the last 10 years? anything?

 

[UncleBuck]

First and foremost where in the Constitution does the government get the authority to regulate heath care?

commerce clause. they are regulating an economic activity.

How does any of this improve health care?

by allowing more people easier access to it (and by guaranteeing they will not be dropped once they have the audacity to use it after paying into it for years).

So I should have to pay higher premiums and higher taxes to support people who don’t want to pay for their own health care?

should i have to pay more because some dipshit who could afford health insurance but chose not to purchase it declared bankruptcy in the face of a a $100K hospital bill?

What about my right to my personal property? Why do they have a greater right to my property than I do? How is Obama Care going to make America a freer nation?

bla bla bla...if you don't want the gubbmint confiscating your "personal property" with they' big ol' guns, then go move to warlordville, africa. we are all part of a society, we all pay taxes, we are all in this together.

 

[blazin256]

the commerce clause was suppose to only ensure commerce happened. not to force someone to buy something. does that graph also adjust for inflation? im sure 1999 dollars are worth more than 2010 dollars.
did you see this? just watch the fist two minutes if you dont want to watch the whole thing.
[video=youtube;7n2m-X7OIuY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7n2m-X7OIuY&feature=related[/video]