Get a Harvest Every 2 Weeks
- Thread starter Al B. Fuct
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Al B. Fuct
once had a dog named
Why just 50/50? Get serious, dude! Use bleach straight out of the jug! Chuck in some battery acid, too. No more dickin' around!
hellraizer30
Rebel From The North
ok il take your word for the cloning info you seem to be on top your a game
here. and having a old mother is most likly why im having a hard time getting
cuts to take. My mother is 7 month old and ive transplated 4 time, im going
to just bud her out and start with new and go with your plan, healthy plants= healthy clones thanks again
here. and having a old mother is most likly why im having a hard time getting
cuts to take. My mother is 7 month old and ive transplated 4 time, im going
to just bud her out and start with new and go with your plan, healthy plants= healthy clones thanks again
Al B. Fuct
once had a dog named
Hope that sorts you out.ok il take your word for the cloning info you seem to be on top your a game
here. and having a old mother is most likly why im having a hard time getting
cuts to take. My mother is 7 month old and ive transplated 4 time, im going
to just bud her out and start with new and go with your plan, healthy plants= healthy clones thanks again
I'm not sure I'd have a lot of hope for nor expect a lot from flowering the 7mo old mum. Cannabis plants are in fact annuals, so 7 mos is a big chunk of life for an individual plant's stem and rootmass- about 60-70 years to you & me. I change them out when they are in their '20s'.
The fresh material regrown from a plant that has been cut back is indeed 'new' and won't display old age characters when used as a cutting. The mum's rootballs and stems eventually do sorta 'wear out,' becoming more susceptible to diseases/bugs, indicating a need for replacement. S'okay, you can have a new one anytime you want, in 6 days.
AlB,
Quick question. When your clones are ready to go into flower, do you introduce them right into the flower room? Do you do it during a "lights off" cycle to allow them a little less trauma. I put a few clones (well rooted) into rockwool pots last night, during lights off, and this morning they were quite droopy.
I added water to the pots before putting them in to give the roots a little moisture from the top down. Not sure what I did wrong with these girls as the previous ones took straight away a few weeks back.
Any comments would be appreciated.
Quick question. When your clones are ready to go into flower, do you introduce them right into the flower room? Do you do it during a "lights off" cycle to allow them a little less trauma. I put a few clones (well rooted) into rockwool pots last night, during lights off, and this morning they were quite droopy.
I added water to the pots before putting them in to give the roots a little moisture from the top down. Not sure what I did wrong with these girls as the previous ones took straight away a few weeks back.
Any comments would be appreciated.
Al B. Fuct
once had a dog named
Thanks for that.
After 8 cones, I hope you remember none of it. If you do remember any of it, you've got crappy dope.
Thanks for the compliment, nonetheless.
Sure, 150mm square pots would work fine. Square pots could be somewhat better than the traditional cylindrical pots in a square flood tray, as the rootballs can use some of the area otherwise occupied by empty spaces between cylindrical pots- but the difference wouldn't be much.
Yep.
Nope. Doesn't stress them at all. They're cannabis plants, not cameras. They don't usually care about abrupt changes in light cycle.
Hmm. That's a small mystery.
You said that your clones were 'well rooted', but were the roots in your latest batch as well developed as these before you stuck them in under the big lights? These are at about day 12 after cutting.
Something changed between your batches. Just got to go back to first principles and check things against what they should be.
What is your clonebox's air temp? What sort of lighting are you using? Did your media wind up damp or saturated after you watered? How long did the media in the difficult batch stay wet before requiring water again?
If I were to put a clone into the flowering area under a 1000W light which only had 1-2 taproot tips showing through the bottom of the cube, I could understand why it would wilt- but you said your roots were well developed. There has to be a sufficient spray of developed roots to be able to supply the foliage with water when the demand increases, as it does when you put the clones under the big light.
No lids.And another quick one from me........ Do your newly struck clones go into a propagator with the lid off ?? They are the biggest clones I have ever seen
My clonebox is just an old plywood shipping container- even has an exhaust blower (controlled by a thermostat set for 26C) and an open, passive air intake hole. No attempt at all is made to seal the clonebox to keep the humidity high. Only temperature is controlled, limited to 26C max.
Humidomes are not generally necessary- in fact, they tend to keep things too damp, causing fungal or other pathogen problems.
Yes, the black plastic trays that my cubes are sitting in did come from a set of humdomes, but I turfed out the clear plastic top covers many years ago. The very thin blow-moulded plastic trays I've retained from the humidome sets transfer heat very effectively from the heatmat into the RW cubes and keep the heatmat clean.
If you have done everything correctly- sterile scalpel, sterile clone watering solution (H2O2 50% grade @ 1ml/L, pH adjust to 5.8 ), 45 degree angle cut on the stems and have kept your medium damp, never wet or saturated, clonebox air temp at 24-26C, there should be plenty of water uptake to keep your cuttings from wilting- without a humidome.
I do run the lights in my clonebox on 18/6 for the first 24H the clones are in the box. I set the timer so that they get 6 hours of darkness as soon as I am done cutting the batch. That one-off dark cycle temporarily reduces water transpiration though the leaves and gives a chance for water uptake from the RW cubes through the stem cuts to begin. Once I'm satified all is well, the timer goes back to 24/0.
If I ever see a clone wilt (rare, happens to one or two cuttings every few batches), it's because something was amiss with my sterilisation. A wilty clone can usually be saved by re-cutting the stem tip and plugging it into a new RW cube which has been flushed with lots of plain water then dampened with fresh, sterile clone watering soln as described above.
My clones are huge compared to the advice you typically get from old grow guides, many which recommend taking tiny, thin-stemmed cuttings from lower branches. This might be useful advice if you are taking cuttings from plants you later intend to flower as you are using material for cuttings that won't be all that productive come harvest. Since I'm growing mother plants specifically to provide cuttings, that's a limitation I don't have. Old grow books often give advice based around growing full-sized plants, usually outdoors.
My clones are usually about 8-9" (200-230mm) tall from the tray bottom.
It is my experience that thicker stems (>5.5mm) root faster and much more profusely than those with very thin stems. Taller cuttings with thicker stems become bigger plants faster, important in a zero-veg-time SoG scenario.
The stack on the left all have stems of about 4mm dia or less. The stack on the right all are over 5.5mm dia.
See Photoessay: A batch of clones in rockwool for exhaustive details on how I do cuttings.
tech209
Well-Known Member
wuts goin on al-b quick ? here:
im doin a soil SOG and was wonderin if you had the problem with the plants strechin when introduced into flowering from cloning in no veg time???? also you do recommend triming the leaves below the plant about 2-3 weeks into flowering corect??.........
im doin a soil SOG and was wonderin if you had the problem with the plants strechin when introduced into flowering from cloning in no veg time???? also you do recommend triming the leaves below the plant about 2-3 weeks into flowering corect??.........
Al B. Fuct
once had a dog named
Thanks for that.Thanks, it looks like my head has truly risen from the sand, I feel a new wealth of information is readily available here to bring me out of the dark ages
much appreciated.
While I appreciate the glowing praise, I'm hesitant to claim any 'new art' here. SoG is well-known stuff and the 'Big Clone Theory' started from ideas from an old mate on Overgrow. However, defying the conventional wisdom of tiny cuttings with leaf blades cut in half, basking in 100% humidity micro-saunas is an intellectual capital product of the Fuct 'Skunk' Works[SIZE=-1]™[/SIZE] R&D department.
No, but if I did, I'd be looking at the temp and humidity of the flowering area. I'd suspect excessively high temps in particular. Get a peak mem thermo/hygrometer in there and verify what's happening. Make sure you have a ballsy enough exhaust blower to shift the room's total air mass in 3-5 mins and that you are using the right kind of blower for your application. An axial blower won't like pushing air into a carbon filter, down a long duct or one with lots of 90 deg bends. Get a centrifugal for those situations.
also you do recommend triming the leaves below the plant about 2-3 weeks into flowering corect??.........
I trim off all branching, not just leaves, on the lower 1/3 of the plant. I do this twice, once at the end of wk1 of flowering and again sometime around the end of wk3. The idea is not to allow any branches more than about 1" long.
After wk4, the plants usually stop any vegetative growth; they stop growing vertically and stop sending out branches, instead just bulking up the flowers.
You're basically growing a single stalk with buds attached directly to the mainstem. Fan leaves which are above the lower 1/3 should be preserved as much as possible. These are the plant's solar powered food factories and it is in your interest to keep them going as much as you can up to harvest.
Al B. Fuct
once had a dog named
Well, 76-78 isn't bad, unless of course you're talking Celsius. 
76-78F is perfect, of course, as is 42%RH.
Could low light be a problem? Aside from high temp, that's the only thing off the top of my head that I can think might cause elongated internodal spacing.
A pic is worth 1000 here. You could start a thread about the stretch in the appropriate place and put up a few pix and a bit more detail. (edit - nevermind, found your thread, looking now).
76-78F is perfect, of course, as is 42%RH.
Could low light be a problem? Aside from high temp, that's the only thing off the top of my head that I can think might cause elongated internodal spacing.
A pic is worth 1000 here. You could start a thread about the stretch in the appropriate place and put up a few pix and a bit more detail. (edit - nevermind, found your thread, looking now).
smartfood
Well-Known Member
Hey ABF, have you experimented with leaving just the fan leaves on the plant plus the top bud? Just pruning the potential new growth tips that grow above the fan leaves on the bottom 1/3, while leaving said fan leaves? As long as they don't obstruct air flow, you'd think the plants would have more 'solar panels' from which to pull energy from and apply it to the main cola. I'll be starting a setup like yours as soon as this harvest is complete and am eager to make the most out of it.
Al B. Fuct
once had a dog named
It occurs to me that there's one more very common cause of wilt in clones- and I totally missed mentioning it a cpl posts back.
It's incredibly easy to overwater rockwool cubes. A saturated cube has almost no air content- the water has displaced it. Root nodes need O2 to form. Overwet, saturated media conditions can also favour pathogens like pythium and fusarium. The result is stem rot and wilt occurring about 2-3 days after cutting.
Media for clones should be just damp, never wet or saturated. 40mm RW cubes weigh 5g dry and 25-30g when properly 'damp' Heavier is too wet.
I keep banging on about H2O2, but this is one of the best uses for it. 50% grade H2O2 @ 1ml/L in cube pre-soak and clone watering solns will help prevent stem rot and thus wilt from pathogen infection. It also releases O2 in the root node zone within the cube.
I can't bang home the point about overwet media enough. Overwet conds will cause slow rooting (typically 2 weeks or more), yellowing leaves, etc. If you're getting the watering amount and frequency right, your media never dries fully, cuttings never wilt and will strike first roots in 6-7 days with profuse root formation at 10-12 days.
A heat mat really speeds things along and makes the process more reliable. Control of the air temp in a clone box isn't nearly as important as controlling the temp of the rootzone with a heat mat. I didn't even add the thermostat to my clonebox's exhaust fan until I'd been using it for about 5 years- I just ran it constantly to remove the heat from the 3 fluoro lamp ballasts. Controlling air temp range to 25.5-26.5 (as is when the thermostat is set for 26.0C) did help the uniformity of strike times across all cubes, making them all ready more or less at once instead of scattered over a few days.
It's incredibly easy to overwater rockwool cubes. A saturated cube has almost no air content- the water has displaced it. Root nodes need O2 to form. Overwet, saturated media conditions can also favour pathogens like pythium and fusarium. The result is stem rot and wilt occurring about 2-3 days after cutting.
Media for clones should be just damp, never wet or saturated. 40mm RW cubes weigh 5g dry and 25-30g when properly 'damp' Heavier is too wet.
I keep banging on about H2O2, but this is one of the best uses for it. 50% grade H2O2 @ 1ml/L in cube pre-soak and clone watering solns will help prevent stem rot and thus wilt from pathogen infection. It also releases O2 in the root node zone within the cube.
I can't bang home the point about overwet media enough. Overwet conds will cause slow rooting (typically 2 weeks or more), yellowing leaves, etc. If you're getting the watering amount and frequency right, your media never dries fully, cuttings never wilt and will strike first roots in 6-7 days with profuse root formation at 10-12 days.
A heat mat really speeds things along and makes the process more reliable. Control of the air temp in a clone box isn't nearly as important as controlling the temp of the rootzone with a heat mat. I didn't even add the thermostat to my clonebox's exhaust fan until I'd been using it for about 5 years- I just ran it constantly to remove the heat from the 3 fluoro lamp ballasts. Controlling air temp range to 25.5-26.5 (as is when the thermostat is set for 26.0C) did help the uniformity of strike times across all cubes, making them all ready more or less at once instead of scattered over a few days.
Al B. Fuct
once had a dog named
Yes, I've tried leaving the lower fans on in the past. Even with osc circ fans going 24/7, these lowers often showed signs of high humidity stresses, were more prone to powdery mildew, etc. I can only guess this to be caused by being so close to the media surfaces, where there will be a fair amount of evaporation, possibly causing a very localised high humidity area. If my guess is right, the air circ restriction of the leaves themselves is causing the problem.
I guess you could shorten branches that pop up on the lower 1/3 of the plant instead of removing them entirely, but remember that cannabis has an uneven bud size production habit; biggest ones are at the top of the mainstem and everything else gets progressively smaller and wispier as you move down the stalk. You're not losing anywhere near 1/3 of the yield by denuding the lower 1/3 of the plant, but you are saving hours of manicuring tiny little popcorn buds that normally yield sweet FA.
WhatDoYouWantFromLife
Well-Known Member
Please excuse my ignorance this being my first post I hope I'm doing it right. Been reading this article for about a year now as a guest. I only have 1 question. For the granulated rockwool do you use absorbent or repellent or a mix of both ? I tried searching but couldn't find anything so again please forgive my stupidity.
Al B. Fuct
once had a dog named
WDWYFL, welcome aboard, matey.
Not a stupid question at all (and FYI, I don't bite noobs
), but frankly, I wasn't aware that the RW floc came in 'absorbent' or 'repellent' types. The stuff I use is made by Grodan and they label the product as 'granulated rockwool' with no further specification to my knowledge. I don't completely fill my pots with rockwool anymore- I just pack about 25-50mm of floc in the bottom of each pot, filling the rest of the pot with Fytocell. The water weight in wet floc keeps the pots from floating and prevents the Fytocell crumbs from escaping through the pot's drain holes.
Al B. Fuct
once had a dog named
WDWYFL, I happen to be a distributor for hydroponics equipment. I checked one of my supplier catalogues and I find this notation under the listing for RW floc I buy:
I've always thought that this sort of floc holds too much water, prompting my shift to Fytocell. It's possible that a mix of absorbent and repellent RW floc might be a better solution to excessive absorbency of the Grodan floc than Fytocell. Fytocell has some serious drawbacks; it's messy, doesn't clump and it floats.
I'll look into sourcing some repellent type floc and have a try. Thanks for asking this one. Perfect example of why I bother posting this stuff. I occasionally get great tips like this.
It'd be a pretty good guess to say that the sort they sell and hence the sort I have is 'absorbent.'
I've always thought that this sort of floc holds too much water, prompting my shift to Fytocell. It's possible that a mix of absorbent and repellent RW floc might be a better solution to excessive absorbency of the Grodan floc than Fytocell. Fytocell has some serious drawbacks; it's messy, doesn't clump and it floats.
I'll look into sourcing some repellent type floc and have a try. Thanks for asking this one. Perfect example of why I bother posting this stuff. I occasionally get great tips like this.
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