Do you have a mammoth mint 8 or HLG scorpion Diablo X? Post here!

curious2garden

curious2garden

Well-Known Mod
Staff member
gddg said:
I'm reading that the HLG Scorpion Diablo runs quite hot, can anyone confirm this?

I hesitate between the Mammoth 880W and the Diablo X. Not sure if de Diablo is the best choice in a grow tent with limited height and if true, way more heat than bar-style light.

I also have my eye on the Grand Master Led Tarantula Borg Evolution with a 4-channel tuneable spectrum, looks sick and same price as the Diablo's.
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Sure I can confirm it doesn't.
1710515681675.png
These are both my X's Flower #2 is currently running at 40% and the 75.2 degree is at 80%. I keep a fan running on them to strengthen them and mix the air so there are no hot spots. It's the same thing I do with my HPF4K (450ish watt bar light). Essentially watts are watts, that 800+ will run hotter if you run more watts through it. That is push pull and we all need fans.

Sorry, I didn't answer if it was the right choice for your short tent. The answer is for a short tent less than 5x5 it (and the 880) are way too much unless you are buying them as upgrade lights and plan a taller/larger space and will run them both at lower power. I hope that helps.

Honestly I'm sure the 880 will give great results and I'm looking forward to seeing it grow.
 
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gddg

gddg

Well-Known Member
@curious2garden okay thats nice. I was reading some horror stories about diablos running super hot, too hot to touch, and can't run them in the summer etc. but it looks like that's just bs then.


At the moment I'm using the lumatek/photontek xt 1000w co2 pro led in a 4x8 but I'm thinking about upgrading to a 5x9 tent with 2 diablo's or 2 mammoth 880 mint whites.

I would like a led light with a separate far red channel. I noticed mammoth's new light 900watt mint white main channel and separate UV and far red channels, looks nice but it's 55x44 inches, so 2 are probably just slightly too big for a 5x9 tent.
 
jimihendrix1

jimihendrix1

Well-Known Member
IMHO, neither one of them is Optimum, for a 6 x 6. Thats only 23w sq/ft for the 850w Mammoth in a 6 x 6 area.

715w Diablo, is only about 20.8w sq/ft.

Id shoot for 40w-sq/ft, and no less than 35w sq/ft.

BUT, to use high light levels, one needs plenty of fresh air exchange, or the plants will exhaust themselves, trying to keep up.

IMHO, the Mammoth 850w, is about optimal, for a 5ft x 5ft

Umol of Mammoth 680w, is not quite 2000umol. 1970. Id use it in no bigger than 4.5 x 4.5

2500+ for the 850w.


Its said, that modern LED, are about 1/3 more efficient than HID. So they say.

So, at that rate, one needs about 650w in a 4 x 4 area. To EQUAL, a 1000w HID.
 
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sfw1960

sfw1960

Well-Known Member
While power is definitely a consideration I don't agree with that because I used a dozen old V1 HLG boards at 700 Watts in a 4*8 to flower these two unhappy LSD - I purposely don't run em hard. They could have done better but it's on me for that.
ALL LEDs run hot when driven hard and the more LEDs you have the higher the efficiency you get per watt of input and the cooler they will run.
JS....


LSDd-QB288_1228_220646498_HDR.jpg
 

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curious2garden

curious2garden

Well-Known Mod
Staff member
gddg said:
At the moment I'm using the lumatek/photontek xt 1000w co2 pro led in a 4x8 but I'm thinking about upgrading to a 5x9 tent with 2 diablo's or 2 mammoth 880 mint whites.
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Get one of each! As for the Lumatek XT 1000W I was looking at that one. But the HLG had great support so I went that way. I'd love to see them side by side in a 4x8 that would be fascinating
 
sfw1960

sfw1960

Well-Known Member
It's true that the bar lights are cooler running most of the time and I'm definitely curious to see what an additional 1088 LEDs in the same space (shown above) will be bringing. (Same or similar drive power)

Another reason why I run softer is that grey goo nobody wants to find inside...
There's such a thing as too tight to breathe nugs. Rock hard is good until it isn't!


@gddg

Consider the Red add on bars?

Eric at LED grow lights depot has some stuff.





www.ledgrowlightsdepot.com

TotalGrow Deep Red Bar

The TotalGrow Deep Red Bar LED Grow Light is ideal for commercial and home grows. Free shipping and no tax. 3 year warranty. Buy today!
www.ledgrowlightsdepot.com www.ledgrowlightsdepot.com
 
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marzig

marzig

Member
TheChemist77 said:
That’s the deep penetration I’m talking about, I’ve talked to you in dm, you have great love for your scorpion and I almost bought one last week as they were on sale. But I wonder how anybody with the mint feels and is it as good? Great grow though, Beautifull!
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Forgive my ignorance and I mean no disrespect, but what allows one led to achieve deeper penetration than another?
 
gddg

gddg

Well-Known Member
@curious2garden The Lumatek/photontek xt 1000 is a great light, but overpowered for tent grows. I got that light for a 5x5 tent with CO2, but even at 1500ppm CO2 it was too powerful. I did some rewiring and DIY U-frame stuff to place the bars further apart and now I'm getting 1000umol wall to wall in a 4x8 tent at full power :D
HLG and Mammoth side by side would be great in a 5x9 but unfortunately, I'm ordering from overseas. When ordering from 2 different companies its almost double the shipping cost.

@sfw1960 Add on bars are indeed a nice option, but most newer lights already have built-in far reds. I would like to tune the far red spectrum myself.
 
ChuckNice

ChuckNice

Well-Known Member
I'm really digging my Mammoth 880 mint. I have a weird space that roughly 3'x10' and with how the light is wired I was able to fold it on its side to get some very solid, even coverage. When they say bright af they mean it. I'm at 40% right now, about to flip into flower and pump the CO2.
 

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sfw1960

sfw1960

Well-Known Member
marzig said:
Forgive my ignorance and I mean no disrespect, but what allows one led to achieve deeper penetration than another?
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Output power per watt of input and efficiency of the diode and overall coverage dependent on dispersion angles...
Not a lot of difference but when you're talking hundreds or thousands of LEDs that are just a tiny bit stronger or more efficient it's additive and that makes the difference.
ANY of these lights will grow plants; some do it better than others and when you take the exact same driver like an Inventronics 600w and drive 1800 LEDs you're going to get more heat and a lot of light.
Take that exact same setup but drive 3600 LEDs the power output is the same but the drive current is half of the 1800 LED fixture and the heat and life of LEDs is a bit different. Lower heat and longer life...
Those I pictured are around 5 years old and they are fully functional and I will run them until I can't.
There's four QB272 Rspec FR hanging in there with the dozen QB288s boards now (I have a total of 1500 Watts available).
With the same 700 Watts to 4544 LEDs means I have an extremely uniform coverage pattern and the LEDs are barely warm.

gddg said:
@curious2garden The Lumatek/photontek xt 1000 is a great light, but overpowered for tent grows. I got that light for a 5x5 tent with CO2, but even at 1500ppm CO2 it was too powerful. I did some rewiring and DIY U-frame stuff to place the bars further apart and now I'm getting 1000umol wall to wall in a 4x8 tent at full power :D
HLG and Mammoth side by side would be great in a 5x9 but unfortunately, I'm ordering from overseas. When ordering from 2 different companies its almost double the shipping cost.

@sfw1960 Add on bars are indeed a nice option, but most newer lights already have built-in far reds. I would like to tune the far red spectrum myself.
Click to expand...
I know they do but I like the option to be able to run without too - especially useful for stretchy ones and during seed/earlier veg for those that want to be able to get start to finish in the same space. I've got plenty of room and 5 tents but regardless - I'm pretty sure we've all wanted to be able to use the existing space because there's others finishing or drying elsewhere, right?

For anyone here:
Bottom line is you are far better off to have the power and never need it than to need it and NOT be able to turn it up to ELEVEN!

I don't use CO² and unless I poured a bunch into a sealed room (in a basement that floods occasionally - another strike against it) and I typically flower around 600ish PPFD with decent (not stellar) results. When you have light "slipping" in from everywhere you'll get better penetration.

HTH!
 
marzig

marzig

Member
sfw1960 said:
Output power per watt of input and efficiency of the diode and overall coverage dependent on dispersion angles...
Not a lot of difference but when you're talking hundreds or thousands of LEDs that are just a tiny bit stronger or more efficient it's additive and that makes the difference.
ANY of these lights will grow plants; some do it better than others and when you take the exact same driver like an Inventronics 600w and drive 1800 LEDs you're going to get more heat and a lot of light.
Take that exact same setup but drive 3600 LEDs the power output is the same but the drive current is half of the 1800 LED fixture and the heat and life of LEDs is a bit different. Lower heat and longer life...
Those I pictured are around 5 years old and they are fully functional and I will run them until I can't.
There's four QB272 Rspec FR hanging in there with the dozen QB288s boards now (I have a total of 1500 Watts available).
With the same 700 Watts to 4544 LEDs means I have an extremely uniform coverage pattern and the LEDs are barely warm.


I know they do but I like the option to be able to run without too - especially useful for stretchy ones and during seed/earlier veg for those that want to be able to get start to finish in the same space. I've got plenty of room and 5 tents but regardless - I'm pretty sure we've all wanted to be able to use the existing space because there's others finishing or drying elsewhere, right?

For anyone here:
Bottom line is you are far better off to have the power and never need it than to need it and NOT be able to turn it up to ELEVEN!

I don't use CO² and unless I poured a bunch into a sealed room (in a basement that floods occasionally - another strike against it) and I typically flower around 600ish PPFD with decent (not stellar) results. When you have light "slipping" in from everywhere you'll get better penetration.

HTH!
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Thanks for the great explanation, makes total sense to me now. Do you have any recommendations for a 2 x 4 x 6 tent? With a 6" filter I don't have much headroom. The recommended mounting height for the HLG 350 Diablo is 15" - 24" above canopy.
 
sfw1960

sfw1960

Well-Known Member
Such a waste of space huh @marzig !??!??
I build my own stuff but if you have the means to build a box to house that filter - you can put it outside the tent like I've done with the 4*8's here. The other option instead of pulling air you can push it but I don't want the leakage of odor either.

I'm hoping @shnkrmn can find a picture handy for his setup outside the box?
I believe he's pushing through the filter with the fan upstream and inline outside?

I've never taken a picture of the two boxes I use and one is too small for the two filters I run into. I have a 6" carbon in the top with a 8" inside one box and the fan is the last in line - the smaller box houses only the 6" pulling and the 8"is being pushed into with the fan in-between the two there.

Hope that makes sense... If you want more info send me a message and I'll try to get a pic or two!
 
Rocket Soul

Rocket Soul

Well-Known Member
Penetration, as a function of light, is a pet peeve of mine. Everybody talks about it but nobody seems to agree on ehat it is or how to measure it. From my understanding: tight buds all the way down the plant is more a function of growstyle and how you clean up, prune and manage your budsites. If you let a big plant flower with all lower budsites intact then you will see some larf, no matter what light source you use.
 
L

Lou66

Well-Known Member
jimihendrix1 said:
Has the closest spectrum to the sun. I believe its about 5000k.

The SUN, is 5800k.
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The "sun spectrum" does not exist. During dawn it is heavily red shifted. Not anywhere near 5000 K. If the sun is behind a cloud the spectrum is heavily blue shifted, kinda like diving footage. Clouds (water) absorb red light.



This is just an example. Depending on season (more UVB in summer), evelavtion, time of day, weather etc. it changes. Saying you have "the sun spectrum" is kinda like saying your occilating fan is simulating "the wind". Doesn't make much sense eh?

But lets say they took the clear sky spectrum, assumed that "perfect for plants" (whatever that means) and tried to recreate it. This is what they came up with:


Huge gaps in the UV, cyan and far red spectrum. The bump at 660 ish nm is also nowhere found in nature. Will it grow good flower? Probably, intensity is much more important than spectrum anyways.

But their marketing is total bs. This is the "sun spectrum". It kills microorganisms. Which would then mean that anyone working while the light is turned on is getting skin cancer. Making it limited edition to create hype. Stating that green diodes are efficient. Monochromatic green has the worst efficiency of all LEDs.
 
grotbags

grotbags

Well-Known Member
Lou66 said:
The "sun spectrum" does not exist. During dawn it is heavily red shifted. Not anywhere near 5000 K. If the sun is behind a cloud the spectrum is heavily blue shifted, kinda like diving footage. Clouds (water) absorb red light.



This is just an example. Depending on season (more UVB in summer), evelavtion, time of day, weather etc. it changes. Saying you have "the sun spectrum" is kinda like saying your occilating fan is simulating "the wind". Doesn't make much sense eh?

But lets say they took the clear sky spectrum, assumed that "perfect for plants" (whatever that means) and tried to recreate it. This is what they came up with:


Huge gaps in the UV, cyan and far red spectrum. The bump at 660 ish nm is also nowhere found in nature. Will it grow good flower? Probably, intensity is much more important than spectrum anyways.

But their marketing is total bs. This is the "sun spectrum". It kills microorganisms. Which would then mean that anyone working while the light is turned on is getting skin cancer. Making it limited edition to create hype. Stating that green diodes are efficient. Monochromatic green has the worst efficiency of all LEDs.
Click to expand...
spot on, 10/10...
 
shnkrmn

shnkrmn

Well-Known Member
sfw1960 said:
Such a waste of space huh @marzig !??!??
I build my own stuff but if you have the means to build a box to house that filter - you can put it outside the tent like I've done with the 4*8's here. The other option instead of pulling air you can push it but I don't want the leakage of odor either.

I'm hoping @shnkrmn can find a picture handy for his setup outside the box?
I believe he's pushing through the filter with the fan upstream and inline outside?

I've never taken a picture of the two boxes I use and one is too small for the two filters I run into. I have a 6" carbon in the top with a 8" inside one box and the fan is the last in line - the smaller box houses only the 6" pulling and the 8"is being pushed into with the fan in-between the two there.

Hope that makes sense... If you want more info send me a message and I'll try to get a pic or two!
Click to expand...
I looked and looked for that pic, couldn't find it so here's a new one.20240316_071809.jpg
 
marzig

marzig

Member
sfw1960 said:
Such a waste of space huh @marzig !??!??
I build my own stuff but if you have the means to build a box to house that filter - you can put it outside the tent like I've done with the 4*8's here. The other option instead of pulling air you can push it but I don't want the leakage of odor either.

I'm hoping @shnkrmn can find a picture handy for his setup outside the box?
I believe he's pushing through the filter with the fan upstream and inline outside?

I've never taken a picture of the two boxes I use and one is too small for the two filters I run into. I have a 6" carbon in the top with a 8" inside one box and the fan is the last in line - the smaller box houses only the 6" pulling and the 8"is being pushed into with the fan in-between the two there.

Hope that makes sense... If you want more info send me a message and I'll try to get a pic or two!
Click to expand...
I totally get the concept. I think one 6" pulling should be more than adequate for my small tent. It will also allow me to eliminate several tight bends that are restricting my exhaust air flow. This will be good project for me in between grows.
 
marzig

marzig

Member
Rocket Soul said:
Penetration, as a function of light, is a pet peeve of mine. Everybody talks about it but nobody seems to agree on ehat it is or how to measure it. From my understanding: tight buds all the way down the plant is more a function of growstyle and how you clean up, prune and manage your budsites. If you let a big plant flower with all lower budsites intact then you will see some larf, no matter what light source you use.
Click to expand...
That is pretty much what my thoughts were on light penetration as well. I do think I can get some gains in efficiency, coverage, and spectrum quality over the three Mars ts1000 I'm currently using though. But I do like the flexibility that multiple fixtures allow for adjustment.
 
TheChemist77

TheChemist77

Well-Known Member
ChuckNice said:
I'm really digging my Mammoth 880 mint. I have a weird space that roughly 3'x10' and with how the light is wired I was able to fold it on its side to get some very solid, even coverage. When they say bright af they mean it. I'm at 40% right now, about to flip into flower and pump the CO2.
Click to expand...
Didn’t know you could make 2 seperate lamps out of it.
 
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