Brand new to this

jstone1633

Well-Known Member
Im new to growing and was wondering if someone can point out the main advantages and disadvantages of LEDs. I only plan on a few plants for myself and was just going to start with CFLs. Ultimately what I would like to end up with is a closet for mothers and clones and a stealth flower box. Any input is greatly appreciated. Also, I plan on going soil and as organic as possible if that makes any difference.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
My $.02 as an "interested outsider":

Advantages: Low power draw, high ratio of usable light to total light.
Disadvantages:
1) expensive to purchase per watt/ sq ft illuminated.
2) Much inconsistency of product between manufacturers.
3) Much argument exists on whether the narrow spectral output spikes serve all the plant's needs.
cn
 

Endur0xX

Well-Known Member
Do you mean a stealth box for your mother and the closet for the flowering plants? you want your flowering room bigger than the veg room if you want to do perpetual grow.

As far as LED goes, I have seen a lot of talks online and people bragging about wicked results but I have not seen much pictures yet. I am currently trying them out. If you are not the gambler type, I don't know that I would go for LEDs. I am confident that they do a nice job at vegging, so getting a vegging LED for your mother room is not as risky. I have a plant that is just starting to flower under a blackstar 240, and it seems to be doing really well. Also, you might be able to touch the LEDs without feeling much heat, but they will bring the temperature of the room up especially in a small space, ... you still need decent ventilation. I hope I helped you a little, good luck
 

Daemonn789

Active Member
Do you mean a stealth box for your mother and the closet for the flowering plants? you want your flowering room bigger than the veg room if you want to do perpetual grow.

As far as LED goes, I have seen a lot of talks online and people bragging about wicked results but I have not seen much pictures yet. I am currently trying them out. If you are not the gambler type, I don't know that I would go for LEDs. I am confident that they do a nice job at vegging, so getting a vegging LED for your mother room is not as risky. I have a plant that is just starting to flower under a blackstar 240, and it seems to be doing really well. Also, you might be able to touch the LEDs without feeling much heat, but they will bring the temperature of the room up especially in a small space, ... you still need decent ventilation. I hope I helped you a little, good luck
LEDs can most definitely veg and flower, you just need to get the right ones. Here's just a few journals under ONLY LEDs:

2 Plants SCROG under a Magnum
2.5 Lbs (1111g) grown under 1020w of only LED
546g under 600w

There are a few companies that stand out among others, I'll try to list a few:

Not so expensive:
Blackstar
Pro-Grow
Kessil

Not cheap:
Magnum
Spectra
Penetrator

There are more to list, many companies still emerging. The market is ever changing. There are a few tips when growing LED:

-Temps will be lower for sure and this can affect ventilation and then watering etc...
-You will need to move them around a lot height wise until you find the optimal distance each grow.
-Be patient, flowering may require an extra week to really pack on the extra weight in some cases.
 

Beefbisquit

Well-Known Member
LEDs can most definitely veg and flower, you just need to get the right ones. Here's just a few journals under ONLY LEDs:

2 Plants SCROG under a Magnum
2.5 Lbs (1111g) grown under 1020w of only LED
546g under 600w

There are a few companies that stand out among others, I'll try to list a few:

Not so expensive:
Blackstar
Pro-Grow
Kessil

Not cheap:
Magnum
Spectra
Penetrator

There are more to list, many companies still emerging. The market is ever changing. There are a few tips when growing LED:

-Temps will be lower for sure and this can affect ventilation and then watering etc...
-You will need to move them around a lot height wise until you find the optimal distance each grow.
-Be patient, flowering may require an extra week to really pack on the extra weight in some cases.

I wouldn't put Kessil in the "less expensive" category.

The 90w H350 is $400.... which is $4.40/watt.... covers a 3' diameter.
The 36w H150 is $250.... which is $6.94/watt.... covers a 2' diameter.


 

Endur0xX

Well-Known Member
I have seen each of these grow, they are all over the net... 3 of them! They had awesome results, but it's not like just anybody can do this with the lights, and who knows who are those people? What I am saying is I heard so many people claiming 1g/watt with LED as if any rookie could do it... I have seen a lot more grow with tiny nuggets. This is only my opinion... to me LEDs are still a bit of a gamble. Even the newer lights from the well known companies have not been tested, they looked good on paper, they built them and sell them right away letting us grower test their lights... With that said, I like what I see so far, just another 30-40 days and I will know for the blackstar anyway. I have a nice plant under it, it's a clone from my strongest plant with my HID, it's got the same soil mix, good air circulation... really, I think it's up to the light, looking forward to see if it will grow buds as big as the plant under HIDs.
 
I can find 20 other grows using only LED. Sime are first time growers. The links I gave you are not "pros" or anything - read them if you want to know who is behind those grows. With scrog or training LEDs become a lot more viable because of penetration. 1g/w is good and all but not every grower even accomplishes that with HID.

I wasn't trying to argue, you said there was no evidence that they work in flower... When clearly they do and there is!


I apologize for listing the Kessil that way, was just throwing it together for the OP. They are indeed not the cheapest option, but you can get entry level kessils pretty cheap and it's not like spending $1200 on a single panel. Noted though, Beef.
 

Beefbisquit

Well-Known Member
I can find 20 other grows using only LED. Sime are first time growers. The links I gave you are not "pros" or anything - read them if you want to know who is behind those grows. With scrog or training LEDs become a lot more viable because of penetration. 1g/w is good and all but not every grower even accomplishes that with HID.

I wasn't trying to argue, you said there was no evidence that they work in flower... When clearly they do and there is!

I apologize for listing the Kessil that way, was just throwing it together for the OP. They are indeed not the cheapest option, but you can get entry level kessils pretty cheap and it's not like spending $1200 on a single panel. Noted though, Beef.

The entry level Kessil is 36watts and covers less than 4sq feet for almost $300... I was strongly, strongly considering buying a Kessil H350 instead of my Pro-Grow 180, I'm glad I chose the way I did, it's cheaper, covers a much larger area, and still uses high quality LED's...

I'd put Kessil up with HGL, Advanced, Haight Solid State, and the other top end, very expensive panels
 
Cool info.... I was just throwing somethin together for the op since no one else answered his thread for awhile. An indepth led buyer guide would be a good idea though.
 

jstone1633

Well-Known Member
Thanks for all the info. The only real advantage I see for my grow would be that they lower temps. The low temps would be nice though. I wouldn't mind investing the money if I new a little more about them. I've looked at some and they say they can switch for veg and flower. Seems like a nice feature. They Pro Grow 180 says1.95 sq meters on their website. Seems like a good size footprint if that is really its effective area. Know anything about the Pro Grow 90?
 

Daemonn789

Active Member
I own a PG180 and like it very much. I feel for the price, it's as quality as any other brand's lights. But I will say that about any Pro-Grow light, as they are all made to the same standard now. The PG180, 155w actual draw, is a great light if you intend to (A) Grow 3 plants or less and (B) Use training / SCROG techniques. This light will not grow 3 plants AWESOMELY. It will grow 2 plants AWESOMELY. If you do lots of training, you could grow 2-4 plants under the PG180 with .65-1g/w average yields depending on your experience with the light. The more you dial in ANY set up, you will increase yield. If anyone is planning to use this light alone, it would be best suited for personal grows of small caliber.

The smaller PG90 is a single plant light or supplemental light. It has the same color and LED quality as their larger models. Some people have found moderate to great success using it as a veg light for 2-4 plants. I have never personally used it.

If anyone is going to get growing more than 4 plants, I would highly suggest looking at having a minimum of 450w of LED. Whether you split it between two panels or one large, you need to achieve ACTUAL WATTAGE comparable to the HID equivalent wattage if you expect to yield similar results. When planning your grow, factor in the actual watts your lights are pumping out. Add each light source up - whatever lights are being used - that is your final wattage. From there we benchmark 1g/w and say hopefully we are doing everything right on our end and leave the rest up to the power of the lights. So if you have a great set up in terms of nutes, medium, ventiliation etc... and use a total of 200-300w between whatever light sources (HID, LED, CFL, T5...) expect to yield at best 200-300 grams.

Moral of the story is a 150w LED set up will yield AT BEST ~150g. And that is if everything goes PERFECT, 100% efficiency. I feel some people forget this when assessing LEDs. Anywho, I use LEDs in my set up for a few reasons:

Temperature - I don't have an A/C or a portable. It costs a decent penny even to run a portable where I am, on top of its initial cost. Don't have the need for intake/exhaust fans as heavily. Can get by with one or the other sometimes. I don't use an intake fan, just exhaust. Passive intake works just fine.
Headroom - LED panels are usually pretty thin, letting the plants have more room to grow or allowing your set up to be smaller if need be. If I had an HID set up, I would not be able to move around in my tent like I can now.
Power Cost - It's cheap. They truly don't impact the bill so harshly because of their efficiency. I also dont need to run nearly as much cooling. Dont need to run an a/c unit, heavy extraction fans, or humidifier/dehumidifier. All of those can sometimes pull as much or more juice than your lights.
No Bulbs - I will never have to change a bulb or replace one. HID Bulbs can burn out as fast as 2-3 cycles, its not uncommon for them to die during the first run!
Voodoo - Unproven, but commonly talked about in LED grow journals is that people report frostier nugs when using LEDs. Some people attribute the idea to the fact that they don't directly radiate hot air/heat at the tops of your plants, allowing resin build up that would previously not form due to heat. Heat degrades THC, so I guess it couldn't hurt to reduce the heat hitting the tops of the plants while maintaining proper ambient temps.

It's all about what works for you. I was originally going to buy serious wattage HIDs simply to get into it serious style. I became space limited due to life stuff and had to adjust. Now, after having one LED grow under my belt and the second underway - I feel the potential and technology is really there now. All I gotta do now is step up my grow game as I am new to growing medical cannabis, the rest will come because I've seen the power of LEDs first hand.

I've been made a "believer" through my experiences. bongsmilie
 

jstone1633

Well-Known Member
I own a PG180 and like it very much. I feel for the price, it's as quality as any other brand's lights. But I will say that about any Pro-Grow light, as they are all made to the same standard now. The PG180, 155w actual draw, is a great light if you intend to (A) Grow 3 plants or less and (B) Use training / SCROG techniques. This light will not grow 3 plants AWESOMELY. It will grow 2 plants AWESOMELY. If you do lots of training, you could grow 2-4 plants under the PG180 with .65-1g/w average yields depending on your experience with the light. The more you dial in ANY set up, you will increase yield. If anyone is planning to use this light alone, it would be best suited for personal grows of small caliber.

The smaller PG90 is a single plant light or supplemental light. It has the same color and LED quality as their larger models. Some people have found moderate to great success using it as a veg light for 2-4 plants. I have never personally used it.

If anyone is going to get growing more than 4 plants, I would highly suggest looking at having a minimum of 450w of LED. Whether you split it between two panels or one large, you need to achieve ACTUAL WATTAGE comparable to the HID equivalent wattage if you expect to yield similar results. When planning your grow, factor in the actual watts your lights are pumping out. Add each light source up - whatever lights are being used - that is your final wattage. From there we benchmark 1g/w and say hopefully we are doing everything right on our end and leave the rest up to the power of the lights. So if you have a great set up in terms of nutes, medium, ventiliation etc... and use a total of 200-300w between whatever light sources (HID, LED, CFL, T5...) expect to yield at best 200-300 grams.

Moral of the story is a 150w LED set up will yield AT BEST ~150g. And that is if everything goes PERFECT, 100% efficiency. I feel some people forget this when assessing LEDs. Anywho, I use LEDs in my set up for a few reasons:

Temperature - I don't have an A/C or a portable. It costs a decent penny even to run a portable where I am, on top of its initial cost. Don't have the need for intake/exhaust fans as heavily. Can get by with one or the other sometimes. I don't use an intake fan, just exhaust. Passive intake works just fine.
Headroom - LED panels are usually pretty thin, letting the plants have more room to grow or allowing your set up to be smaller if need be. If I had an HID set up, I would not be able to move around in my tent like I can now.
Power Cost - It's cheap. They truly don't impact the bill so harshly because of their efficiency. I also dont need to run nearly as much cooling. Dont need to run an a/c unit, heavy extraction fans, or humidifier/dehumidifier. All of those can sometimes pull as much or more juice than your lights.
No Bulbs - I will never have to change a bulb or replace one. HID Bulbs can burn out as fast as 2-3 cycles, its not uncommon for them to die during the first run!
Voodoo - Unproven, but commonly talked about in LED grow journals is that people report frostier nugs when using LEDs. Some people attribute the idea to the fact that they don't directly radiate hot air/heat at the tops of your plants, allowing resin build up that would previously not form due to heat. Heat degrades THC, so I guess it couldn't hurt to reduce the heat hitting the tops of the plants while maintaining proper ambient temps.

It's all about what works for you. I was originally going to buy serious wattage HIDs simply to get into it serious style. I became space limited due to life stuff and had to adjust. Now, after having one LED grow under my built and the second underway - I feel the potential and technology is really there now. All I gotta do now is step up my grow game as I am new to growing medical cannabis, the rest will come because I've seen the power of LEDs first hand.

I've been made a "believer" through my experiences. bongsmilie
Thanks a lot. Lots of good info. I forgot to mention that I will be going 12/12 from seed or at least a very short veg time. Any reason why LEDs would work as well for this? I really like the low temps. Im going stealth at first, 13 x 26 x 37, so thats why I was asking about the Pro Grow 90. Thought it might cover my area, or at least with a couple small CFLs to help.
 

jstone1633

Well-Known Member
Are Pro Grows only available online? I can only find them sold on one site. I really don't want to have a $300 package sitting on my front step all day while Im at work if I can avoid it.
 

Daemonn789

Active Member
This is not true. I have ordered twice and did not need a sig, unless that has changed. I have a light in the mail right now, so I will let you know for sure!
 

jstone1633

Well-Known Member
This is not true. I have ordered twice and did not need a sig, unless that has changed. I have a light in the mail right now, so I will let you know for sure!
Thanks. I thought about seeing if it was possible to have UPS hold it for me. I live near their airport in my home city. Or have it delivered to a UPS store? Im not sure if either are possible.
 

Beefbisquit

Well-Known Member
This is not true. I have ordered twice and did not need a sig, unless that has changed. I have a light in the mail right now, so I will let you know for sure!
Keep in mind I'm in Canada... so it might be different, but my gf couldn't pick up the parcel, it had to be me and I had to sign for it with ID...
 
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