Helicopters, thermal FLIR cameras ~ actual crop shown!

Outdoor growers,

Much has been written and said about Flir (thermal observation) from helicopters and planes. This link should help you understand the capabilities and risks outdoor growing can bring and this is especially true for larger crops. Here is the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptKwkk2W-WM

As you can see, even small water leaks in irrigation systems can be detected! Here is another link that describes a typical Flir Thermal Imaging System in detail:

http://www.flir.com/uploadedFiles/CBI/Documents/Tau_Brochure.pdf

Couple a Flir camera with a GPS or agents that know the territory and that could spell deep trouble!

NOTE:

There was a recent thread about soil temperature, watering and helicopter surveillance. I hope you will agree that the information above is much too important to be burred in a reply to that post and I hope you will forgive that I started a new Thread on the topic. I usually sign, SOGLAD, but there is nothing to be glad about in this information.

PS: Yes, I know it's a grape crop, but you get the picture.

Scary shit eh?

Outdoor growers need to watch themselves. It seems like every year it gets worse and worse. Good luck RIU members!

-tux

For any Ohio people, word around the campfire is that weed-huntin' season will be starting within the next 2 weeks. You all probably knew that, but someone else might not!

I think your talking about my thread. Could be wrong. This information is all completly true. Soon it will be impossible to perform illegal outdoor grows. Tecnology is over welming us. Looks like more states may have to make legal or everyone that grows is gunna have to move.

Viva la cali!! Legal out door medical grow

that is a good camera for how small it is' too good!

I was doing more research and it's interesting to note that these FLIR cameras must be LICENSED by the Department of Commerce or the State Department!

YEOWWW! Look at the forms required to purchase a typical FLIR:

http://www.corebyindigo.com/files/Documents/dsp83.pdf

Also see:

http://www.corebyindigo.com/info/
(bottom of page)

Unreal!

The police choppered over my place two weeks ago. SO close I could almost shake their hands. Not sure if they are 'imaging' my area or not. They were hanging out the side of the chopper with binoculars.

A few years ago the Army helped them out, they even came down out of the chopper on lines to whack a bunch of plants down just off my property.

They used to have this wierd contraption that hung under the chopper and they would lower it over the plants and it would shred the plants to small tiny pieces! A grower friend and his buddy were watering their plants when the Police chopper came over and started shredding the plants, they ran into the underbrush to watch, the contraption got stuck in the fir tree branches and they had to eject it!!! Dang near hit them, but then they danced around it like the had defeated the enemy!
Amazing what you see in the bush!

You may have been responding to my post about a conversation I had with some helicopter cops. I do think your post desrves its own thread. I also think this will help with the whole "different plants different wavelengths" argument that is so often associated with FLIR questions. I dont know if the whole wavelength thing i strue but it is obviously true that different ground temps can be seen quite well.

aweosme avatar Miles!

thewinghunter said:

aweosme avatar Miles!

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You to bro! Lol

jollygreenleaf said:

You may have been responding to my post about a conversation I had with some helicopter cops. I do think your post desrves its own thread. I also think this will help with the whole "different plants different wavelengths" argument that is so often associated with FLIR questions. I dont know if the whole wavelength thing i strue but it is obviously true that different ground temps can be seen quite well.

Click to expand...

Looks like there is quite a difference...

SG

great thread... It was nice to see the images that the FLIR displays.. Now we need to come up with a solution to beat it... From what I understand about how FLIR works is that it uses a beem of infrared light, which bounces off objects and back to the the IR sensor on the camera. So if we can stop the IR from bouncing back it should create a blind spot. There are materials that are transparent to visible light but that are opaque to infrared. A commonly experienced phenomena is when the performance of an infrared sensor degrades or stops functioning altogether when enclosed in a seemingly clear plastic cover. Im not sure how yet but I am sure FLIR can be beat.. I have a friend who is into robot building. Robots use IR to guide them and to detect obsticles.. The last competion he entered they had to find targets and bring them back to base. The people who where hosting the comp managed to hide several targets from the IR sensors. The builders who's robots only used IR sensors couldnt find them, yet they were right out in the open..

Thank you and I'm glad that you found this Thread helpful... Right up front I want to add that I am NO expert in this technology and all that I relay here are items I gleaned from the Internet.

(I believe) FLIR is measuring and detecting heat generated from all sources and then calibrated to detect specific parts of the spectrum the desired target(s) generate? The imager constantly clears and updates, much like a digital movie camera and I suspect there is also some method to store information for further scrutiny? As far as I know, the new technology requires no 'floodlight' that 'lights-up' heat targets.

This technology offers 'filters' that target specific heat emitters like marijuana or
still-burning embers in a forest fire ~ so marijuana plants display almost like sore thumbs with no doubt about accuracy! And I'm afraid that any attempts to cover or to use plastic to mask the crop will only serve to create a visible (to FLIR) square (rectangle or what have you) 'target' that would be all too obvious to observers.

I surmise that new FLIR technology 'looks' for specific 'hits' or 'spikes' of spectrum that marijuana plants generate as they grow? I again offer a attached chart to show how specific plant emissions can be... so apparently, marijuana plants within other crops (as in corn or?) will STILL be very obvious to FLUR. Other items may still show on the display, but specific crops or targets will clearly be shown or intensified on FLUR depending on the filter(s) used.

As mentioned in a earlier post, Lockheed Martin purchased the company that fine-tuned the filtering technology and Martin is famous for government satellites and weapons systems. So if the technology is not used now to monitor broad areas from space in a single sweep, it soon will be!

But nothing stops Martin from creating filters for poppy plants too so I suspect it's only a matter of time before poppy (heroin) crops are targeted too. And it won't matter what country or territory they are in and as long as targets are in view of the FLIR sensor(s). Of course we all know that satellites can be 're-tasked' to observe any place on earth 'they' desire.

Indoor growers should know that a pattern of indoor lights will also show up as 'unusual' and through the roof as "hot-spots" and this is especially true of high-heat light sources. So six or ten lamps (HPS in example) placed in half or a third of a structure will really be suspect! I also suspect heat vapors from exhaust systems from structures will also be 'seen' as easily as a tail on a dog?

Further, I suspect (not positive) specialized FLUR equipment will not be required to spot unusual heat patterns on roofs today! That is, common FLIR detectors in use today by most larger police departments have no problems spotting possible indoor farms by light patterns ~ unless the farm is in a basement? But again, high heat from a exhaust systems can be suspect too.

Folks, these are your tax dollars at work and it's a tragedy that something so good can be painted so bad... marijuana that is. Given the chance, vote YES on any measure that serves to decriminalize marijuana! If you are not registered to vote take the time to do so and inform yourself on who the enemies to peace are and vote their asses out.

Off my soapbox for now... I know I've digressed from my original Thread topic, but there is no need for us to remain captive and prohibited from our "pursuit of happiness"!

I do hope all this is helpful and I welcome additions or corrections. I remain...

SOGLAD

Mare A Wanna said:

great thread... It was nice to see the images that the FLIR displays.. Now we need to come up with a solution to beat it... From what I understand about how FLIR works is that it uses a beem of infrared light, which bounces off objects and back to the the IR sensor on the camera. So if we can stop the IR from bouncing back it should create a blind spot. There are materials that are transparent to visible light but that are opaque to infrared. A commonly experienced phenomena is when the performance of an infrared sensor degrades or stops functioning altogether when enclosed in a seemingly clear plastic cover. Im not sure how yet but I am sure FLIR can be beat.. I have a friend who is into robot building. Robots use IR to guide them and to detect obsticles.. The last competion he entered they had to find targets and bring them back to base. The people who where hosting the comp managed to hide several targets from the IR sensors. The builders who's robots only used IR sensors couldnt find them, yet they were right out in the open..

Click to expand...

Agreed that it would create a blind spot if you tried to cover crops with plastic.. But however I believe if you threw a bunch of grass cuttings or leaves on top of the plastic you could hide the blind spot from the FLIR.. all though it would be a bitch covering and uncovering your plants all the time.. And you would'nt realy know when u needed them covered and when its safe to leave them uncovered.. The best way to get away with growing is to just use common sense.. Dont get greedy and put all of your plants together... Put One here, two there, In the end harvesting 10 plants is better then the DEA finding all your plants..

I understand that the FLIR can detect abnormal soil temps, so it'd be good to cover the marijuana soil with a layer of native soil/dirt that you dug up, and that'd help keep moisture in, But your saying that they can detect the heat patterns off of the MJ plant. I thought that shit was a myth, wouldnt it be the same temp as any other fast growing weed/plant thats in the woods or in the area? I thought the only way its spotted is it's color or the unique structure of the MJ plant, even though i think detecting the MJ plant by its color alone is tough battle, unless its kinda obvious, anybody wanna discuss this?

Thats really a neat way to spend millions of dollars. Gotta bust the potheads by any means.

FLIR technology absolutely can detect different surface/target temperatures because that is the nature of it's design. The FLIR does not have to discern fresh water holes or watering efforts because in marijuana detection all it has to do is hunt for a signature 'hit', no matter how wet or dry the crop is.

Marijuana indeed does have it's own spectral signature as shown in the graph. Other growth large or small is filtered out by FLIR software (I suspect). Different software or programs are used to detect other specific targets from the FLIR sensor(s) because it would be quite expensive to have a FLIR dedicated to marijuana detection only.

And don't forget, this technology is at least four years old and who knows how much money was poured in the project or what progress Martin has realized since then? I know the purchase of the original company was a investment in the present and future for Martin. I suppose NOTHING stops Martin from placing their own multi-tasking satellite in orbit and selling each city or county it's marijuana detection results(?)! Can you imagine the profits each entity (city/county) can make levying fines and seizing property? How about if Martin only asked a percentage of those profits in exchange for the data?

SG

swishatwista said:

I understand that the FLIR can detect abnormal soil temps, so it'd be good to cover the marijuana soil with a layer of native soil/dirt that you dug up, and that'd help keep moisture in, But your saying that they can detect the heat patterns off of the MJ plant. I thought that shit was a myth, wouldnt it be the same temp as any other fast growing weed/plant thats in the woods or in the area? I thought the only way its spotted is it's color or the unique structure of the MJ plant, even though i think detecting the MJ plant by its color alone is tough battle, unless its kinda obvious, anybody wanna discuss this?

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No, I'm afraid grass cuttings aren't going to get it because outdoor plants need sun exposure and plastic with or without the grass is like showing a red flag to a bull.

Also if the FLIR is sensitive enough to detect a water leak in a grape vineyard, I suspect it can also detect plants spread out over any given area exposed to the sky.

SG

Mare A Wanna said:

Agreed that it would create a blind spot if you tried to cover crops with plastic.. But however I believe if you threw a bunch of grass cuttings or leaves on top of the plastic you could hide the blind spot from the FLIR.. all though it would be a bitch covering and uncovering your plants all the time.. And you would'nt realy know when u needed them covered and when its safe to leave them uncovered.. The best way to get away with growing is to just use common sense.. Dont get greedy and put all of your plants together... Put One here, two there, In the end harvesting 10 plants is better then the DEA finding all your plants..

Click to expand...

No, I'm afraid grass cuttings aren't going to get it because outdoor plants need sun exposure and plastic with or without the grass is like showing a red flag to a bull.

Click to expand...

Well the way im thinking is if the plastic keeps the IR from bouncing back (Flir does use IR beems and they must bounce back to sensors to be read. look at your chart it says right on it reflectiveness) your gonna have just a blank spot on the FLIR display. That would be like showing a red flag to a bull. So we need to hide the blank spot with something. If we covered the plastic with grass cuttings or leaves the IR would bounce off of them and there would no longer be a blank spot on the display. Instead it would look like normal ground cover.. I understand plants need light and you wouldnt be able to keep them covered all the time.. Thats why i said it would be a bitch to know when u need to cloke you plants. Im just thinking out loud basicly, brain storming on how we can beat them bastards.. As far as the FLIR or FLUR on Sats it wouldnt work.. There would be way to much interferance shooting an IR beem that far. I doubt it would even make it through the atmosphere. If you have ever seen a chopper out scanning for weed you would see they fly super low. This is because you need a straight line of sight with nothing between the sensors and your target.. The IR bounces off the 1st thing it hits.

your saying that they can detect the heat patterns off of the MJ plant. I thought that shit was a myth, wouldnt it be the same temp as any other fast growing weed/plant thats in the woods or in the area? I thought the only way its spotted is it's color or the unique structure of the MJ plant, even though i think detecting the MJ plant by its color alone is tough battle, unless its kinda obvious, anybody wanna discuss this?

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Swisha your right to an extent.. a few plants in the right spot would be almost impossible to detect. There are many trees and plants that are close to the same signature as MJ.. On that chart it shows an oak tree is 10% less reflective then canabis. So a canabis plant next to an oak tree would be tuff to spot.. What gets people caught up is when they plant in places like corn fields and river banks where there is nothing close to the same signature as a canabis plant.. For example if you had a blue peice of paper with a little tiny red dot on it, the red dot would stick out.. But if you had a red peice of paper with a little orange dot it would be much harder to spot the orange dot.. when there on the hunt for canabis they are looking for the blue paper with the red dot.. Also I've never realy seen them scanning private property like they do fields or state parks.. It's expensive to fly choppers, there not gonna waste there time looking for one or two plants.. They want to find the big plots with hundreds of plants in them and make a name for there self..

CaliforniaGlad said:

As you can see, even small water leaks in irrigation systems can be detected! Here is another link that describes a typical Flir Thermal Imaging System in detail:

Click to expand...

OK, the leaking water is at a LOWER temperature than the soil presumably. And the plants, which happen to be grapes (but are just an indistinct blur), are at a different temperature to both the water and soil. But they will be at the SAME temperature (or very nearly so) as plants in the next field, whatever they may be!! And this camera differentiates only between objects of different temperatures.

I can see nothing to be alarmed about in the images shown.