JACKS reverse engineering

2cent said:

Are you making from scratch a brand of nute u like?

I'm literally trying to figure this out and do it also got told am crazy lol.
Following

Download hydro buddy I found it u can put in ur values and it will reverse and decide amounts u need .
Confirm amounts or find better subs. I'm playing with it atm. Its geneius

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Hydrobuddy is nice, very nice, but it don't do everything i want, so i prefer to build my own sheets on excel or whatever.
It helps me to better understand every step of calculations and a deeper understanding of whats happening.

Keesje said:

That is the question: Are the NPK numbers of FloraNova spot on?
I doubt it, and here is why: There are so many strains that all react different. So what works well with blabla berry might not work with blabla kush. Then there is the water were you live. Even if you know that your water has an EC of 0.4, you don't know what elements are making this numbers up.
Also there is the climate. There is a huge difference in running your room with a high VPD or a low VPD. Some minerals, such as Calcium for example, are almost exclusively absorbed passively. This means that with a poor water transport inside the plant, calcium problems can quickly arise.

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Yes absolutely thinking only nutrients is a nonsense.
Also understanding your tap water, and include it in your calculations is important, but carbonates chemistry is complicated and thinking of RO water can be a good idea in many cases. It's interesting to understand carbonates because air and plants add CO2 to the water, but there is already a lot to learn ...

Keesje said:

So if you run a high VPD (high temperature, low RV) as many growers do to prevent botrytis, then you maybe have better results with a brand with more Calcium.

Where I live there are many growers who use Yara Brown combined with Yara Calcinit. With great results and low costs. The NPK numbers are not the same as GH FloraNova or GH Lucas Formula with the tri-part system.

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I don't know about this, because playing with the Ca ratio in water can be problematic,
i would look more on what molecules or bacterias can help transport Ca,
also foliar Ca seems to work well if controled, but youre talking about botrytis so i guess it's not an option.

maybe i'll open a thread about minerals ratios, i'm happy to see there is some global interest to deeper understanding in the hobby

I checked the YARA nutrients, they have nice products,
i worked on the composition of the YARA KRISTALON RED 12-12-36

12-12-36 expressed in N-P205-K20
equivalent to 12-5,2-30 in N-P-K

i found that :

600 g potassium nitrate
110 g ammonium nitrate
220 g monopotassium phosphate
15 g potassium sulphate
65 g magnésium sulphate
7 g FeEDTA 10%
0,7 g CuEDTA 15%
2,7 g MnEDTA 15%
1,9 g ZnEDTA 14%
2,3 g Borax
0,07g Ammonium Molybdenum

gives a mix of 1024g which contains
in parentheses the YARA KRISTALON RED original numbers


101 g N from NO3 (10,1%)
19 g N from NH4 (1,9%)
N Total 120 g (12%)
P 50 g (5,2%)
K 300g (30%)
Mg 6g (0,6%)
S 10,7g (1%)
Fe 0,7g (0,07%)
Cu 0,1g (0,01%)
Mn 0,4 (0,04%)
Zn 0,25 (0,025%)
B 0,25 (0,025%)
Mo 0,038 (0,004%)

Calcium nitrate should be used separately to adjust values
also some magnesium sulphate can be added , but its a good base

BOWLDOG said:

I checked the YARA nutrients, they have nice products,
i worked on the composition of the YARA KRISTALON RED 12-12-36

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Most cannabis growers use Yara Calcinit and Yara Brown.
And then 1 part Calcinit to 1 part Brown in grow (this gives apparantly an NPK of 7-4-14)
And in bloom 1 part Calcinit to 1.5 parts Brown (4-3-11)

Keesje said:

Most cannabis growers use Yara Calcinit and Yara Brown.
And then 1 part Calcinit to 1 part Brown in grow (this gives apparantly an NPK of 7-4-14)
And in bloom 1 part Calcinit to 1.5 parts Brown (4-3-11)

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How has adding .5 more brown recuced npk?
Sorry if thats blonde im stil waking up after a lonf flooded hydro night lol.

It does not reduce it. It are relative proportions between N, P and K in a single solution

You can also multiply the number of N in the bloom part (4) by 1.75. Then this number becomes 7 as well. Then you also multiply K (3) by 1.75 as well. It gives 5.25 and then K (11) multiplied by 1.75 gives 19.25.
So then the numbers for the grow mix would be 7-4-14.
The numbers for the bloom mix would be 7-5.25-19.25.

Fun with NPK ratios to elemental ppm.

Keesje said:

Most cannabis growers use Yara Calcinit and Yara Brown.
And then 1 part Calcinit to 1 part Brown in grow (this gives apparantly an NPK of 7-4-14)
And in bloom 1 part Calcinit to 1.5 parts Brown (4-3-11)

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are you talking about elemental ppm or N-P205-K20?
i go with the red in the calculations because im more confortable with this npk ratio.
the guy who use the mix yarabrown and calcinit, is it the same guy who have calcium uptake difficulties ?

Keesje said:

It does not reduce it. It are relative proportions between N, P and K in a single solution

You can also multiply the number of N in the bloom part (4) by 1.75. Then this number becomes 7 as well. Then you also multiply K (3) by 1.75 as well. It gives 5.25 and then K (11) multiplied by 1.75 gives 19.25.
So then the numbers for the grow mix would be 7-4-14.
The numbers for the bloom mix would be 7-5.25-19.25.

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That i can understand the numbera are greater in this calculation.
Its
And then 1 part Calcinit to 1 part Brown in grow (this gives apparantly an NPK of 7-4-14)
And in bloom 1 part Calcinit to 1.5 parts Brown (4-3-11)

Doesnt this say veg is 7 -----4 ---14
Bloom 4 ----3 ---11

And ur calc here veg 7 --4 ----14
Bloom 7 --5.25 --19.25

Wasnt the veg 4 on the 2nd calc typo?

BOWLDOG said:

are you talking about elemental ppm or N-P205-K20?

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I don't know. I just copied the numbers from some forum in the Netherlands.
For me it is all way to difficult.\
I just wanted to give some information they you smart guys might like.

BOWLDOG said:

i go with the red in the calculations because im more comfortable with this npk ratio.

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Again... no clue
I do know that a lot of guys buy the Brown.
What I noticed is that there are no 'ideal' NPK ratios in general.

BOWLDOG said:

the guy who use the mix yarabrown and calcinit, is it the same guy who have calcium uptake difficulties ?

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It is a well known grower (well, at least in my circle) by the name of "Racker".
I don't see him around of forums anymore, unfortunately.
But he had this great room with a watercooled AC and CO2.
Here is a topic by him for example.

Thats a huge grow you linked keesje
we could learn how to grow only reading this

And this wasn't even his biggest room ....
He always had very good yields.
Also very constant. For years.
But this was mainly because he had his climate perfectly in order.
You can buy the very best nutes, but if your plants do not or poorly absorb it, you throw away money.
And he only used Yara Calcinit and Yara Brown. Perhaps some silica.

Keesje said:

You can buy the very best nutes, but if your plants do not or poorly absorb it, you throw away money.

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absolutely

BOWLDOG said:

Hi jacks nutrients arent available in my place so i searched to copy the recipe and do it myself.
I worked on the jacks tap water 15-5-20
Here s what i found :
354,5 grams potassium nitrate
123,3 grams calcium nitrate
159 grams magnésium nitrate
160 grams ammonium nitrate
219 grams monopotassium phosphate

Gives a result of 1015,8 grams of mix containing
114,8g pure N from NO3-
28g pure N from NH4+
49,9g P
198,6g K
29,7g Ca
15g Mg

Im pretty close from original
I didnt add micronutrients yet
There are still some purity of salts to adjust and stuff , i think its going right
Cheers

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Can you translate that to ppms?

it depends how much you dilute the mix
you can do the calculation with hydrobuddy easy
post your result here and i tell you if its right to me

TintEastwood said:

I cheated with bagged micros for this recipe.

Attempted to duplicate Jacks 10-30-20 elemental ppm @ 5grams.

View attachment 4641317

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Do you think you're getting the same quality from the plants as if you were to use a standard "cannabis" nutrient line like AN, CYCO, GH etc? I have tried bud grown with GH MaxiBloom per their instructions and it was legit garbage where the same bud grown with a common mainstream line was perfectly delicious.

I'm super hesitant to try dry nutes after experiencing how trash Cyco Dry AIO was. Absolute dog poop.

Powder or liquid, they all contain the same basic elements.