Questions about selling lamps

I have an interest in selling lamps. Maybe first on ebay and if that goes well maybe working on a website. I've assembled two lamps so far. The second one is closer to what I would offer as it's made for a 2x4 tent. 14 Vero 29s running at 700mA, keeps them nice and cool on passive radial heatsinks with a total output of 350 watts.

I have a variety of questions regarding both performance indicators as well as electronic regulations. If any of these questions can be answered it would be appreciated.

1- I would like to get some exact temperature readings. I have a thermal probe, but despite the fact that the wire is thin it still seems to thick to place at the thermal junction and crank down the screws. How does one get an accurate reading at the thermal junction?

2- Any suggestions on a PAR meter? I can calculate the lumen output of the lamp but it would be nice to have one of those nifty diagrams showing the par footprint. Besides the obvious usefulness of displaying par readings I think the results would be tantalizing because unlike most retail lamps with a high reading in the center that drops off every 3 inches I would likely have a single PAR reading across the whole grow area. Since the price will be high, at least initially unless/until I can buy in bulk, having something like that to justify the extra expense seems ideal.

3- Electronics regulations. I'm not sure what type of regulations would apply to agricultural lamps. As it's a passively cooled unit there is no housing, just a frame with heatsinks bolted to it. The wiring is exposed. Wires from the drivers lead to terminals with clear plastic covers. It would be near impossible for any contact to be made with live wires without removing the covers. I will likely end up seeking out an electrician to consult with on this one.

4- Cost analysis and part selection. The lamp costs around 750 to build. Getting this figure down a bit without compromising quality is something I will explore soon. I can't save much initially on emitters or aluminum but I might be able to find a more cost effect solution for the drivers. Currently I'm using a single Meanwell PLM-40-700s for each emitter. Considerations for that selection includes 87% efficiency and PFC. Are there single drivers that would power 14 Vero29s at 700 mA? Any other suggestions in this regard would be appreciated.

5- Warranty. What type of warranty should be offered for such a lamp?

Much thanks for any replies. Maybe we can get a discussion going about the viability of DIY lamps and/or the future of retail lighting. I've currently seen 2 different companies offering COB based lamps, though they both use active cooling and lenses. I don't see the style lamp I build using lenses (although a benefit would be protecting the phosphorus coating). The lamps would benefit from small cone reflectors.

In terms of regulations, since you're simply building lights, and the components are/should be in compliance, you have no responsibility besides the standards set for everyone by the Consumer Products Safety Commission.

You can opt to follow stricter standards such as UL, IPC and NEMA so you can display their logos on your products.

This is all assuming you're selling only in the US, other countries have different regulations.

Warranty is up to you. If you offer one, the FTC requires you honor it. Many light mfgs offer 5yr up to lifetime for defects and craftsmanship.

The only real way to lower costs, offer customers value and make money is to buy your materials in bulk. A lot of states and municipalities offer small business loans and grants, some with no payback and some with low interest. They will give you even more to hire people, but that's a whole new ball game- employment taxes, insurance, workers comp, etc.

Pictures of the setup you built?

Ehh... trying to sell a COB fixture for an eight square foot area, that costs ~$700 to create, will be a tough sell, unless you end up selling it for $700...

Picture from the top and bottom. The zip ties do hold the drivers securely but that's something I would want to modify if I offered a lamp for sale.

AquariusPanta said:

Ehh... trying to sell a COB fixture for an eight square foot area, that costs ~$700 to create, will be a tough sell, unless you end up selling it for $700...

Click to expand...

That's what I was thinking. There are also better ways to get high efficiency than underdriving vero 29 to 700mA. At current prices, you'd actaully get cheaper $/PAR W using high bin cxb AND get higher efficiency.

Still, that build looks like a really nice DIY and will likely produce amazing results.

You could also reduce complexity/wiring by driving multiple cobs in series. That would also give you options for 91% and 94% efficient drivers.

It might be really hard to sell points like this to the majority of your likely customer base. Everyone buying prebuilt usually insists on buying crappy epistar builds, overdriven and undercooled. As a sales point, people will think anything you say is a lie.

I really like the heat sink design btw. I've been very curious about that configuration. It's always seemed like the perfect configuration for passive.

AquariusPanta said:

Ehh... trying to sell a COB fixture for an eight square foot area, that costs ~$700 to create, will be a tough sell, unless you end up selling it for $700...

Click to expand...

I guess I could build smaller lamps, though If I had outfitted the tent with 2 A51 150s it would have cost $1170 plus tax and shipping.

Have it built/assembled in China to lower the bom/labor costs........that's what all the "cool" kids do

Consider your competition.

http://opticgrowlights.com/360-watt-vero29-led-grow-light.html

You would have a tough sale compared to these guy's online. As churchhaze pointed out, most people don't notice the difference between quality builds and crappy ones. So you've got $100 margin to cover labor/packaging/shipping/profit. Just shipping that beast alone is going to be a feat in and of itself TBH. End user assembly is a recipe for disaster with a warranty. Especially using zip ties to secure the drivers.

Granted, I think the build looks awesome! but selling it would be a challenge.

churchhaze said:

I really like the heat sink design btw. I've been very curious about that configuration. It's always seemed like the perfect configuration for passive.

Click to expand...

Thanks! The previous lamp using Vero 18s w 1.05 amp drivers runs a little hot but the new lamp stays very cool... back side of the sinks are barely warm to the touch. They're cheap Chinese sinks and come rough cut. I sand them down to a nice finish. You can find them on ebay "50W LED aluminum heatsink". In small bulk quantity sellers will accept $12-13 per unit.

Responses have been very informative, so thanks. I will look into drivers and running the COBs in series. The drivers alone for the lamp are almost $300 all together. Shipping would be hefty... I think at least I will do the research, modify the build a bit and build one... put it on ebay and see what happens. If it doesn't sell, no big deal. If it does I'll build another one.

Thought I would mention this here since the specs on the lamp are already in the thread. Anyone can build it, no soldering required. Drill (drill press is ideal) hack saw, screw driver, wire stripper, tap and die set, pair of pliers for tightening down the zip straps. Just jarred everything up from the first run on this lamp. 473 grams. That's 1.35 GPW not taking driver loss into account. 1.18 GPW actual wattage.

That's pretty good for LED!

Bad news is that after going back over the pricing, all the parts will run about 900 after shipping, cost of terminals, wire, hardware and aluminum for the frame. Minus shipping the total for the drivers/heatsinks/emitters is 802. Still a good deal considering cost of bulbs and electricity over time. I would likely want to charge at least $1000 to build plus shipping. Still might do it, put it on ebay and see what happens.

What's eBay's current cut?

Ohh... hadn't considered that. 10% so that would bump the price to 1115 for me to make $100.

Set the minimum for a decent profit and see what happens...

Who knows, maybe you get picked up from one of the emerging/existing LED/COB companies as a grunt/designer .

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I too like these stars, have had a bunch for a while (cost $8ea), looking at a round cluster for a mates grow (in a round cabinet).

Having had them lying around and wev'e come up with some zany passive designs.

One thought I had was to pin the stars in two places (on the thicker arms) from the side. They could then be either angled, gimbal style or flipped over for different colour temp cobs on the reverse side lol. Not really necessary but we are thinking it may be useful in our design say 5x 3070 3k (.7a) perimeter stars and a central 4-5000k/2700k higher powered (1.4) flipping star (so it can be used for initial veg/clones/mothers and flipped to assist budding). We're considering have them all encased (still allowing airflow) an exhaust in the centre top.