Right wing nuts worldwide.

Sativied said:

Chega (meaning Enough!), established in 2019 by André Ventura. 1 seat in 2019, 12 seats (7.1% of votes) in 2022. Atm polling at 21%

Click to expand...

The results of Portugal are in… and are worse than expected: 48 seats, over 28% of votes, meaning “radical-right” quadrupled number of seats in parliament. Situation now similar to NL and elsewhere in EU, the center now has to work with more of the left to form a majority coalition, including those darn climate change believers, which is exactly what the increasingly right-wing population doesn’t want anymore.

”Huilie huilie” (cry cry) is what Wilders would say if it wasn’t about himself.

After months of largely failed negotiations it looks like we’re going to experiment with an extra-parliamentary program-cabinet. The leaders of the four rightwing parties (far-right, reincarnation of christian democrats, farmer party and liberal conservatives (Rutte’s party) ) will not, unlike usual, become ministers nor prime ministers in a cabinet. Instead, they stay in the house as MPs. Some other ministers will be professionals, not politicians. Some could even be people from the left.

Program-cabinet is a term that hasn’t been used in many years, decades even. There’s some precedent, like after ww2 when the goal was to rebuild. Effectively it means concrete goals broadly outlined (reducing immigration, solving housing crisis, the nitrogen problem, “subsistence security”) but the details and implementation involves looking for support in the entire parliament, from right to left. This to prevent the coalition from collapsing as soon as they disagree and don’t stick to the plan.

Normally largest party in the house provides PM, but since that is Wilders (with ‘only’ 25% of votes) and only the farmer party and Wilders’ own party wants him as PM, and the rest of right and all of left doesn’t, they’re taking a different road.

Wilders can cry it’s undemocratic but 25% of the votes gets you 25% of power. That’s not enough to claim PM ‘democratically’. Don’t know yet who’ll be PM instead of Wilders, he’ll have decisive No vote in that, but not an overruling yes vote. Chances are high it will at least be a less controversial person that won’t make us look like complete idiots on the international stage. Someone with political experience, someone from the right before far-right got large, thus someone from Rutte’s party,

Upside for Wilders is that he won’t have to behave like a PM, leader of all 4 parties in the coalition, allowing him to continue campaigning like a populist for another 4 years critizing all of the rest.

Given the election results, this sure isn’t the worst possible outcome.

Sativied said:

Not being prime minister is unfair, undemocratic, Wilders says - DutchNews.nl

PVV leader Geert Wilders has told reporters he considers it “unfair” that he will not be prime minister in the next coalition government. On Wednesday night it emerged that the leaders of all four parties involved in the coalition talks will remain in the lower house of parliament, including...

www.dutchnews.nl

”Huilie huilie” (cry cry) is what Wilders would say if it wasn’t about himself.

After months of largely failed negotiations it looks like we’re going to experiment with an extra-parliamentary program-cabinet. The leaders of the four rightwing parties (far-right, reincarnation of christian democrats, farmer party and liberal conservatives (Rutte’s party) ) will not, unlike usual, become ministers nor prime ministers in a cabinet. Instead, they stay in the house as MPs. Some other ministers will be professionals, not politicians. Some could even be people from the left.

Program-cabinet is a term that hasn’t been used in many years, decades even. There’s some precedent, like after ww2 when the goal was to rebuild. Effectively it means concrete goals broadly outlined (reducing immigration, solving housing crisis, the nitrogen problem, “subsistence security”) but the details and implementation involves looking for support in the entire parliament, from right to left. This to prevent the coalition from collapsing as soon as they disagree and don’t stick to the plan.

Normally largest party in the house provides PM, but since that is Wilders (with ‘only’ 25% of votes) and only the farmer party and Wilders’ own party wants him as PM, and the rest of right and all of left doesn’t, they’re taking a different road.

Wilders can cry it’s undemocratic but 25% of the votes gets you 25% of power. That’s not enough to claim PM ‘democratically’. Don’t know yet who’ll be PM instead of Wilders, he’ll have decisive No vote in that, but not an overruling yes vote. Chances are high it will at least be a less controversial person that won’t make us look like complete idiots on the international stage. Someone with political experience, someone from the right before far-right got large, thus someone from Rutte’s party,

Upside for Wilders is that he won’t have to behave like a PM, leader of all 4 parties in the coalition, allowing him to continue campaigning like a populist for another 4 years critizing all of the rest.

Given the election results, this sure isn’t the worst possible outcome.

Click to expand...

If I read this right, NL will have ministers running the government at the pleasure of parliament.

It's similar to the way the US government was run during the early days of this country, when the idea of a powerful executive branch of government was considered dangerous and undesirable. It wasn't an agile or responsive government but it also didn't decline into monarchy as was predicted by the monarchies of other countries. "Not the worst possible outcome" describes democracy.

Fogdog said:

If I read this right, NL will have ministers running the government at the pleasure of parliament.

It's similar to the way the US government was run during the early days of this country, when the idea of a powerful executive branch of government was considered dangerous and undesirable. It wasn't an agile or responsive government but it also didn't decline into monarchy as was predicted by the monarchies of other countries. "Not the worst possible outcome" describes democracy.

Click to expand...

It seems unclear to everyone involved how exactly this is supposed to work but it's indeed all about reigning in a dangerous and undesirable executive branch. Some other parties already rejected the idea of supplying ministers (and secretaries) to any form of cabinet that involves Wilders, on principal grounds. Which is cool but not necessarily helpful atm. They'll have to do what Rutte has been doing on and off for years, including over the past 252 days since the cabinet fell. That is, when you're not bound to an agreement with other parties in the coalition anymore, look at the entire parliament from left to right, conservative to progressive, to find majorities for specific individual issues, keep the show on the road. We can disagree on climate and immigration, but Ukraine needs funding, for example.

The NSC’s and PVV’s [sic, should be VVD, Rutte's party, PVV is Wilder's own party] refusal to cooperate with Wilders may represent the reassertion of the “cordon sanitaire,” a longstanding principle under which more mainstream parties refuse to cooperate with certain populist parties.

The cordon sanitaire has previously helped to keep extremists out of government. For instance, when the then-National Front leader Jean-Marie Le Pen (father of Marine) unexpectedly defeated the Socialist candidate Lionel Jospin in the 2002 French Presidential election, the Socialists swung their weight behind the center-right candidate Jacques Chirac, delivering him a landslide in the second-round runoff.

But the principle has been weakened in recent years as more center-right parties have proven willing to build coalitions with more extremist groups.

Click to expand...

Something I have without naming it brought up a few times, cordon sanitaire. It's what the left still does in the original way, they simply refuse to let the Overton window expand to a point where it's ok to form a government with people from Wilder's party, in any form.

The reason "center-right parties [in EU] have proven willing to build coalitions with more extremist groups" is that they are primarily the ones losing voters to far-right. It might still all fail on the details and then we get new elections with Wilders, expected to get 33% instead of 23.5% of votes, leaving the rest of right even less choice. That's the same situation many established major parties around the center have in several countries in EU, soon quite possibly in EU parliament itself. A vote for the center or center-right was effectively also a vote for the left, because the center had to choose between forming a majority coalition with left, or, too far(-)right, leaving only one decent option. For imo no valid reasons, the population however wants a pure right-wing government for a change.

Fogdog said:

It wasn't an agile or responsive government but it also didn't decline into monarchy as was predicted by the monarchies of other countries.

Click to expand...

Speaking of monarchies and kings... surely not ours. Would that perhaps be late 18th century?

"By the end of the 18th century, the United States consisted of thirteen states. They had just liberated themselves from Great Britain, but they were destitute. Money was needed. Therefore, John Adams, who would later become president, traveled to the Netherlands as an envoy. Initially, there was a great reluctance among investors. The new country had no track record yet. Still, Adams ultimately succeeded in his mission."

"The total amount of the loans was 30.5 million guilders; converted to today’s money, this amount is equivalent to 22 billion US dollars. This way, the Netherlands helped America through its difficult early years."

The house Adams bought in the Hague became the first US embassy. The US wasn't just a good investment, the US in many ways is despite the language more like NL then the UK or any other nation. Yes, I'll back up that bold statement in a bit and rock your Anglo-Saxon socks

In an early not be taken seriously poll about who then should be PM instead of Wilders, our king came in on spot 10. Not that he would want to, and our constitution explicitly forbids it. And, it would not be quite like going back to our roots either. Let me drop some history that's probably not on your bucketlist of things you want to learn before you die but it's pertinent in a way. I'll leave Plato's Republic out of it.

It's a story, based on true events, about a Republic established after a united revolt against an authoritarian king imposing too high taxes. It's about freedom and democracy. (And admittedly very long so no offense taken if entirely skipped, it was fun to refresh, type out and summarize.)

In late 16th century, this area, the low lands, nether lands, including Belgium and Luxembourg, part of France even, was a union of 17 provinces. The northern provinces united in a broad movement but partly with the help of William I from the House of Orange, to revolt against the Spanish catholic king and the high taxes he imposed. That led to the Union of Utrecht in 1579, the predecessor of the Dutch Republic. With a de facto government run by the States-General, a federal legislative assembly representing the various provinces (the precursor to modern parliament and why Staten Island is called Staten Island).

At the end of the the 80-year war against Spain, in 1648, the Dutch Republic officially gained independence. Formally established already in 1588, it was a confederation of seven provinces that worked together under the States-General. Each province had considerable autonomy, and there was no single head of state. Instead, the Stadtholder, a position often held by members of the House of Orange, had significant influence.

Known as the "Disaster Year", in 1672 France, England, and parts of Germany attacked the republic, because the French Sun King wanted to expand his kingdom. They failed.

"The late 17th century in England was marked by deep religious and political divisions. When James II, a Catholic, became King of England in 1685, his reign alarmed the Protestant majority in England. In 1688, a group of English nobles invited grandson William III (for most 'the' Orange William) to invade England. He landed in England with a Dutch fleet and army in an event that would be known as the Glorious/bloodless Revolution.

The English Parliament offered the crown to William and Mary as joint sovereigns, not just to William alone. This was unprecedented. They accepted the crown (of England, Scotland and Ireland) along with the Declaration of Rights (later the Bill of Rights), which laid the foundation for a constitutional monarchy, limiting the powers of the crown and outlining the rights of Parliament. William's ascension to the English throne marked a significant constitutional change. It affirmed Parliament's authority over the monarchy, a principle that has shaped British constitutional monarchy ever since."

He was contrary to common belief, not a king to us.

The Dutch Republic was overthrown with the help of the French, and it became the Batavian Republic for about a decade. Then came Napoleon, who put his brother Louis on the trone. We sorta liked him, he sorta liked us, so Napoleon replaced him with himself and NL was part of France.

The Kingdom of the Netherlands wasn't established until 1815, in the aftermath of Napoleon, by the Congress of Vienna, and the most logical choice for a king was another William I of Orange-Nassau (they restarted the counter...). For about 30 years the parliament then was merely advisory and largely appointed by the king. Until Thorbecke, the guy who wrote our constitution, gave the king a choice, either we go all French on you and become a republic again or you agree to my consitution where you are stripped from real powers.

Click to expand...

So we get where you're coming from when you don't want a king as a ruler. We sort of left him in place on paper and given the history. His role in the formation of a cabinet is merely symbolic, like most of his job. He seems a prisoner in his role, as a mascot, a placeholder. There is no link between our monarchistic history and the strange increasing desire for some authoritarian ruler who will magically solve false grievances, it is 'so not us'.

With the current situation - it's currently unclear how the new-not-Wilders PM will be selected - well, if we need separate PM elections, we might as well relabel a few positions and call it a Republic again.

Sorry neighbors but it’s not looking good atm.

Right wing nutjobbery in Belgium, well… Flanders.



Some random trivia aside from the most obvious (best beer).

• Belgium is a buffer-zone between France and, NL, Germany. When the UK recognized their independence and neutrality, the UK vowed to come to their defense if ever attacked. This is also partly why Brussels was chosen as the capital of EU, it’s in between historically big troublemakers.
• Belgians are known to be very polite, they’re like our Canadians.
• Port of Antwerp is second largest port of Europe, after Rotterdam.

Belgium has a messy government structure for a small country with population11.5mil. There’s the federal government, separate parliament for the Flemish (Belgian Dutch) region Flanders and the French region Wallonia and Brussels. And community governments based on the 3 languages (there’s a German part too) and cultures. And regional governments for 10 provinces and nearly 600 municipalities.

Belgium is also a notable example of the cordon sanitaire (major established parties excluding far-right no matter what side they’re on). The in 1978 already established ‘extreme’-right Vlaams Blok (Flemish Block) was convicted by a court for systematic racism in 2004. They changed the name to Vlaams Belang (Flemish Interest) but nothing else. Like Wilders, anti-islam is a main item for them. Like elsewhere in Europe, there ‘are’ problems as a result of the influx of muslim immigrants, but the actual troublemakers are more than often kids or grandkids of Turkish and Moroccan immigrants who came or wee even brought over not recently. In any case, none of the anti-islam parties solve any actual integration problems with sensible solutions.

So different EU nation, same old shit. “Flemish First”, “Flanders for the Flemish again”. Belgian MAGA. Anti-multiculti. You know, all the usual nationalistic hate. Except, since 1989 already when they started to become larger, other parties have refused to work with them so far. Even when they became second largest party in 2019. They were an example to the rest of europe. And that, is about to change. This year in June 6 different parliaments elections, in addition to EU parliament, and in October regional elections. Largest party in polls with 25% of votes, so no majority, but, as I showed is the case across europe, a large part of the population wants the center and right to work with far-right for a change. In Belgium’s case, polls show that’s a majority of the population.

In Wallonia (the French part) as well as in Luxembourgh, they have a cordon médiatique, meaning all media outlets refuse to give far-right a podium. They’ll talk about them, but never with them. They refuse to legitimize them as political parties. Although that’s harder now with social media, so far, far-right has no success in those areas. No Fox News…

I’m also reminded of what @Fogdog posted a while ago, about people somehow acting like they are tired of the economic success their western democracy brought. Belgians are 6th richest in EU, with most of the wealth disproportionately in the Flemish part. Nearly free healthcare, houses not that crazy expensive yet. Life’s pretty good there, more relaxed pace. I visited several cities in the area last summer. If the people weren’t so friendly and didn’t clear their throat as harsh as we dutch do with the letter ‘g’ (and ‘ch’), I’d barely notice I was across the border. They look like cities in ‘Holland’ without the rip-off rates for everything.

Trump sporting a MAGA hat at a rally,SALUTING a bogus "NATIONAL ANTHEM" in tribute to jailed Jan 6 "hostages" EVERY passing FKN day "newswise" this country is becoming more and more foreign to me. Just having this guy throw a salute to anything is sacrilege,probing the depths of low,how much lower than the big brother to "alternative facts" an actual alternative National Anthem,WTF next?? Considering the source I should have seen this coming,CHILLING and UNPRECEDENTED. 8 months of this shit to go,"I need a new drug"

It's nauseating.

The oldest precursor of the EU was the European Coal and Steel Community, founded in 1951 to integrate the steel and coal industry among those countries. Any war among them would then hurt the trade in resources required for their military power. Not just avoiding a repeat of WW2, but a repeat of what Europe historically always did.

Turning into a shit show this year. I used to say we should have kept the number of member nations as low as possible, anything else defeats the purpose and it the EU was never designed for so many members, the system is continuously being patched. Now we got to clean our own house again first.

So far all the polls I've seen on national levels, were underestimating the share far-right would get. I have little hope EU parliament elections this year will be different. There's already a possible pathway for the right, including far-right, to get a majority. I don't think that will happen, yet, as not everyone on center-right and the right have sold their soul to fascists already. But even in the best scenario, they'll be able to prevent a lot of action that is needed.

First victim, climate change measures. Especially because center-right includes farmers, who have shown to have no problem switching to far-right if it suits their interests.


Also known as Frans Timmermans' Green Deal, the guy I voted for and who lost recent elections to Wilders.

Things aren't going quite my way.

This won't surprise the OP of this thread:

The Denik N daily said the news site had published statements by politicians demanding the EU halt aid to Ukraine.

Some European politicians cooperating with the news site were paid from Russian funds that in some cases also covered their 2024 EU election campaign, the daily adds.

The payments targeted politicians from Belgium, France, Germany, Hungary, the Netherlands and Poland, Denik N said, citing a Czech foreign ministry source.

It singled out the far-right German party Alternative for Germany (AfD) as being involved.

Click to expand...

In NL we know and already knew who, the leader of FvD, the racists fascist anti-vax, qanon-inspired, slimebag who recently got hit in the head in Belgium and later by a heroic student in a bar. If Wilders is relatively a gop republican, Thierry is freedom caucus material, would make a 'nice' couple with MTG. He's a clown, a constant laughing stock, and treated as such.

Yesterday, he threatened to punch one of our left-wing leaders in the face if he would accuse him of being a traitor taking again.


Same guy was one of the initiators of the Ukraine-referendum in 2016, denying it EU membership.

N.b. the translation knock your block off sucks, literally he said "I will punch you on the beak" (humans have mouths, animals have beaks).

Sativied said:

This won't surprise the OP of this thread:

Czechs Bust Major Russian Propaganda Network - The Moscow Times

Czech intelligence has busted a Moscow-financed network that spread Russian propaganda and wielded influence across Europe, including in the European Parliament, Prime Minister Petr Fiala said on Wednesday.

www.themoscowtimes.com

In NL we know and already knew who, the leader of FvD, the racists fascist anti-vax, qanon-inspired, slimebag who recently got hit in the head in Belgium and later by a heroic student in a bar. If Wilders is relatively a gop republican, Thierry is freedom caucus material, would make a 'nice' couple with MTG. He's a clown, a constant laughing stock, and treated as such.

Yesterday, he threatened to punch one of our left-wing leaders in the face if he would accuse him of being a traitor taking again.

"I will knock your block off" Baudet tells Klaver in spat - DutchNews.nl

Thierry Baudet has “damaged the image of politics” by telling GroenLinks MP Jesse Klaver he would “knock his block off”, parliamentary chairman Martin Bosma has said in a letter to the FvD leader. The incident happened on Wednesday following a debate about an FvD proposal to allow an advisory...

www.dutchnews.nl

Same guy was one of the initiators of the Ukraine-referendum in 2016, denying it EU membership.

N.b. the translation knock your block off sucks, literally he said "I will punch you on the beak" (humans have mouths, animals have beaks).

Click to expand...

The similar German challenge is to get punched in die Fresse, roughly “in the fodderhole”. People eat; animals feed.

Strange stance from Czechia, they don't want to share details and names before the EU elections in June. Leaves us in a pickle.

Watching live debate about it, requested by Wilders, who I (like most of his opponents and supporters alike) don't believe is under Russian influence, unlike FVD leader who clearly is. He's so insignificant and unworthy I'm not even going to post his name. It reminds me of when the US found out Trump is Putin's puppet but because the US is not in direct war with Russia not legally a 'traitor'. Turns out we have quite a few 'rules' in parliament that lack any means of enforcement. For example, leader of FVD refused to disclose finances for years, has been suspended from parliament several times but that's more a symbolic thing.

The parliament and cabinet except one of the ministers, don't know nor can in detail share what our own intelligence agency is doing atm, it can be safely assumed they are on to it, it's know they were already, but unless they find proof it will remain unknown who the Czechs are referring to. In Germany some traitor got a 10K fine, but even that is not something we have clearly in the rules/laws. Members of parliament swear loyalty to the constitution, the nation and even the king, vow not to take any bribes etc, but it's unclear what happens if proven. I guess back in the day they didn't expect that was needed, any traitors wouldn't dare to ever walk the streets again and certainly wouldn't receive any votes next elections.

Same at EU level, they're still trying to figure out how to deal with this 'news'.

If Putin would start a war with NATO that would change everything, he'd lose his propaganda outlets in the rest of Europe, while the aim is to sow division and prevent united support for Ukraine.