Second grow dwc to autopotspider farmer self watering system 100% coco

Delps8 said:

Plants are looking great!

With lots of food (light) and a good supply of vitamins and minerals (fertilizer/nutrients) they should continue to do really well.

@Wastei hits it on the head with "More nutrient is not better and won't make the plant grow bigger or faster, it's the other way around."

It sounds like you're where you want to be in the sufficiency range at 2.2. It's not in this graphic but that's called "luxury consumption" because just going to 2.4 gets you into toxicity.

"in the middle of nowhere" — welcome back!


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Thanks man! I take anything Wastei says as absolute fact I view his opinion as the encyclopedia of Cannabis growing, that guy is a treasure in the growing community. I just figured as the got bigger maybe the could talk more as they have been on basically the same feed since sprout obviously not.. which basically goes back to the calculations of dli/ppfd and EC. I don't even know why I tried to push them more because they looked fantastic as they were haha! I've paid a very small price this time but that's a lesson learned for the future. They're going in to flower tonight so hopefully everything is good with the current feed ect. If not another life experience will be on its way very shortly that's for sure hahaha
Hope everything is good with you brother!

Day 35 from sprout and 6 days in to flower the left plants looking abit shite but the right plant is off to a flyer let's see how everything pans out I'll add a second trellis in another week!

limp biffskit said:

Thanks man! I take anything Wastei says as absolute fact I view his opinion as the encyclopedia of Cannabis growing, that guy is a treasure in the growing community. I just figured as the got bigger maybe the could talk more as they have been on basically the same feed since sprout obviously not.. which basically goes back to the calculations of dli/ppfd and EC. I don't even know why I tried to push them more because they looked fantastic as they were haha! I've paid a very small price this time but that's a lesson learned for the future. They're going in to flower tonight so hopefully everything is good with the current feed ect. If not another life experience will be on its way very shortly that's for sure hahaha
Hope everything is good with you brother!

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Sorry for the late reply.

@Wastei steered my right on a replacement for Hydroguard. He's a good egg, no question.

DLI/PPFD - my first three grows were "legacy light levels" but it's been 70-80mols since then (just over 40 for photos in flower). A thread here on RIU is about fox tailing and I caught a video by a researcher who works for Fluence and, based part of the video, I've recalibrated. I was thinking that big colas just get ugly but, no, those are categorized as foxtails. Still smokes the same but I'm OC enough that I'd like to not have that "defect".

This was happening at 1050-1100 so I'll keep it to 1k. Still a "metric shitton" of weed at 1k.

Photo below is from my most recent grow.




"I don't even know why I tried to push them more because they looked fantastic as they were haha! I've paid a very small price this time but that's a lesson learned for the future."

Why did you do that?

Because that's what we do.

limp biffskit said:

Day 35 from sprout and 6 days in to flower the left plants looking abit shite but the right plant is off to a flyer let's see how everything pans out I'll add a second trellis in another week!View attachment 5468104

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Looking good!

Delps8 said:

Sorry for the late reply.

@Wastei steered my right on a replacement for Hydroguard. He's a good egg, no question.

DLI/PPFD - my first three grows were "legacy light levels" but it's been 70-80mols since then (just over 40 for photos in flower). A thread here on RIU is about fox tailing and I caught a video by a researcher who works for Fluence and, based part of the video, I've recalibrated. I was thinking that big colas just get ugly but, no, those are categorized as foxtails. Still smokes the same but I'm OC enough that I'd like to not have that "defect".

This was happening at 1050-1100 so I'll keep it to 1k. Still a "metric shitton" of weed at 1k.

Photo below is from my most recent grow.

View attachment 5468109


"I don't even know why I tried to push them more because they looked fantastic as they were haha! I've paid a very small price this time but that's a lesson learned for the future."

Why did you do that?

Because that's what we do.

Click to expand...

They're some big ass colas for sure haha and I'm just I'll have a search for the tread on fox tailing, I'm hoping to grow some nice big colas this time my last grow I had around 200 tops but they were all much smaller buds.. I'd rather less and a bit heavier to save me trim time!

Delps8 said:

Looking good!

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Yeah really happy with how it's going plants are very happy and healthy so I'm just going to keep doing exactly the same as I am same light same nutes ect unless something drastic happens.

Delps8 said:

Sorry for the late reply.

@Wastei steered my right on a replacement for Hydroguard. He's a good egg, no question.

DLI/PPFD - my first three grows were "legacy light levels" but it's been 70-80mols since then (just over 40 for photos in flower). A thread here on RIU is about fox tailing and I caught a video by a researcher who works for Fluence and, based part of the video, I've recalibrated. I was thinking that big colas just get ugly but, no, those are categorized as foxtails. Still smokes the same but I'm OC enough that I'd like to not have that "defect".

This was happening at 1050-1100 so I'll keep it to 1k. Still a "metric shitton" of weed at 1k.

Photo below is from my most recent grow.

View attachment 5468109


"I don't even know why I tried to push them more because they looked fantastic as they were haha! I've paid a very small price this time but that's a lesson learned for the future."

Why did you do that?

Because that's what we do.

Click to expand...

They're some big mf colas for sure! Do you still achieve the same heavy duty buds with slightly less light just with out the fox tailing? I'm going to search that thread and have a look.

And yeah the plants are happy and healthy but the left one has decided not to stretch like the other, I guess that's what happens when you grow from seed... But I'm not going to change anything in my grow apart from the vpd to match the stages of growth. I've had such a rapid and vigorous growth cycle that I'm literally going to copy everything I've done this grow for all my next ones.

limp biffskit said:

They're some big ass colas for sure haha and I'm just I'll have a search for the tread on fox tailing, I'm hoping to grow some nice big colas this time my last grow I had around 200 tops but they were all much smaller buds.. I'd rather less and a bit heavier to save me trim time!

Click to expand...

I'm (re)reading Westmoreland's thesis and, in the section of phasic temperature change he mentions the difference in the number of colas between the plants grown at low temps at the outset and plants that were grown in higher temps. The temps were 18.5, 22, and 26.5. My grows are at high temps (80-85 in veg then dropping in flower). The higher temps result in taller plants and I suspect the higher temperatures is why I end up with a smaller number of larger colas.
The downsides to that is that they, frankly, ugly and, second, the greater mass makes them more susceptible to bud rot. Even with low temps in flower this last time, I had to bin one of the colas.

limp biffskit said:

Yeah really happy with how it's going plants are very happy and healthy so I'm just going to keep doing exactly the same as I am same light same nutes ect unless something drastic happens.

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Good to hear. That approach will do well for you.

Consistency is one of the reasons I document my grow journals. The "Maytag Repairman" might be before your time (and you're on the other side of the Pond, aren't you?) but that's how I refer to my grows.

limp biffskit said:

They're some big mf colas for sure! Do you still achieve the same heavy duty buds with slightly less light just with out the fox tailing? I'm going to search that thread and have a look.

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I would expect so. I really think it's primarily a result of high temps in the early stages which result in larger plants. The high light levels allow the plant to grow larger but, in Westmoreland's reasearch, when light levels were constant with temperature being the variable, the above ground mass was the same but the temps that were higher in veg were larger plants and had a higher percentage of flower (the "harvest index").
I'll check Westmoreland's document and post the info.

limp biffskit said:

And yeah the plants are happy and healthy but the left one has decided not to stretch like the other, I guess that's what happens when you grow from seed...

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I should only grow only one plant but I do try to grow two when the stoopids attack. Invariably, I end up with "Twinz" grows. The latest grow is a case in point. Donna was noticeably larger than Erica and that's because I cut off the branches on the left side of Erica.




Photo taken on harvest day prior to harvesting Erica.



Erica got very little attention during the grow. I ran the Vipar XS 1500 on that side of the tent (I bought that light for an earlier "Twinz" grow) and just left it there. Her light levels were in the 800-1000 range and I never pruned her and I wasn't concerned about her VPD. Despite that, she still yielded 87 gm (3 ounces). It wasn't pretty weed but, considering I really didn't do anything to tend to it, I can't complain.



Interesting that the root ball was quite large despite being a much smaller plant (Erica on the left, Donna on the right)

limp biffskit said:

But I'm not going to change anything in my grow apart from the vpd to match the stages of growth. I've had such a rapid and vigorous growth cycle that I'm literally going to copy everything I've done this grow for all my next ones.

Click to expand...

It can be a bit of a chore to document the details of a grow but they can be an excellent resource. If you use a laptop/desktop, I'd recommend Excel.

Delps8 said:

I'm (re)reading Westmoreland's thesis and, in the section of phasic temperature change he mentions the difference in the number of colas between the plants grown at low temps at the outset and plants that were grown in higher temps. The temps were 18.5, 22, and 26.5. My grows are at high temps (80-85 in veg then dropping in flower). The higher temps result in taller plants and I suspect the higher temperatures is why I end up with a smaller number of larger colas.
The downsides to that is that they, frankly, ugly and, second, the greater mass makes them more susceptible to bud rot. Even with low temps in flower this last time, I had to bin one of the colas.
View attachment 5468218


Good to hear. That approach will do well for you.

Consistency is one of the reasons I document my grow journals. The "Maytag Repairman" might be before your time (and you're on the other side of the Pond, aren't you?) but that's how I refer to my grows.



I would expect so. I really think it's primarily a result of high temps in the early stages which result in larger plants. The high light levels allow the plant to grow larger but, in Westmoreland's reasearch, when light levels were constant with temperature being the variable, the above ground mass was the same but the temps that were higher in veg were larger plants and had a higher percentage of flower (the "harvest index").
I'll check Westmoreland's document and post the info.


I should only grow only one plant but I do try to grow two when the stoopids attack. Invariably, I end up with "Twinz" grows. The latest grow is a case in point. Donna was noticeably larger than Erica and that's because I cut off the branches on the left side of Erica.


View attachment 5468222

Photo taken on harvest day prior to harvesting Erica.
View attachment 5468223


Erica got very little attention during the grow. I ran the Vipar XS 1500 on that side of the tent (I bought that light for an earlier "Twinz" grow) and just left it there. Her light levels were in the 800-1000 range and I never pruned her and I wasn't concerned about her VPD. Despite that, she still yielded 87 gm (3 ounces). It wasn't pretty weed but, considering I really didn't do anything to tend to it, I can't complain.

View attachment 5468224

Interesting that the root ball was quite large despite being a much smaller plant (Erica on the left, Donna on the right)
View attachment 5468225


It can be a bit of a chore to document the details of a grow but they can be an excellent resource. If you use a laptop/desktop, I'd recommend Excel.

Click to expand...

What is Westmoorlands full name? I need to have a read up on this subject because it sounds really interesting and I think it will be beneficial to me. i thought I'd done enough research on my first grow to take it on which I had, literally just enough to make it through. But what I'd found out along the way has literally transformed my second grow and i feel as though I'm 5 years infront of where I should be on this one just through researching pure science such as Dr Bugbee and no bro science. But I'm still all for learning as much as I possibly can.

Have you grown gsc? And do you know who has the best genetics I wouldn't mind trying some.

limp biffskit said:

What is Westmoorlands full name? I need to have a read up on this subject because it sounds really interesting and I think it will be beneficial to me. i thought I'd done enough research on my first grow to take it on which I had, literally just enough to make it through.

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F. Mitchell Westmoreland is the name on his thesis (attached).

The basics are important ("don't fuck it up") and will get about 75% of the way there. The other 25% comes from turning up the dimmer switch.

limp biffskit said:

But what I'd found out along the way has literally transformed my second grow and i feel as though I'm 5 years infront of where I should be on this one just through researching pure science such as Dr Bugbee and no bro science. But I'm still all for learning as much as I possibly can.

Click to expand...

Attached are a copy of Chandra and what I refer to as "the Frontiers" paper.

One key issue to keep in mind when reading Chandra is that he's documenting net photosynthesis at various temps and PPFD's. The net P curve starts to roll off at just over 500µmol and that may be one of the reasons why some growers express strong opinions a la "600 is adequate for flower" or somesuch.

When I read the Chandra paper, I questioned the applicability of it to growing cannabis because I'm not harvesting net photosynthesis, I'm harvesting cannabis. That issue was specifically addressed in the Frontiers paper. Search for the word "plasticity" in Frontiers.

The PLOS paper discusses the impact of blue photons on yield. It's an interesting read but the industry appears to be shifting to lights with more red (higher PPFD and cheaper LED's) so it's, arguably, a moot point.

limp biffskit said:

Have you grown gsc? And do you know who has the best genetics I wouldn't mind trying some.

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Girl Scout Cookies? No, I haven't tried that. Most of my grows have been Gorilla Glue variants and I think I've done Gelato a few times. I've only grown from seed and have had few major disappointments but mostly great results.

I plan on doing a grow in a few months and, if I go with autos, it will most likely be a Mephisto strain. For photos, I've got to admit that I haven't done enough grows that I can draw any conclusions. Due to the summer heat here in Southern California, I do only two grows a year with only one strain.

Delps8 said:

The other 25% comes from turning up the dimmer switch.

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haha!

Delps8 said:

One key issue to keep in mind when reading Chandra is that he's documenting net photosynthesis at various temps and PPFD's. The net P curve starts to roll off at just over 500µmol and that may be one of the reasons why some growers express strong opinions a la "600 is adequate for flower" or somesuch.

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I'll give that a read this evening for sure top up the education levels

Delps8 said:

Girl Scout Cookies? No, I haven't tried that. Most of my grows have been Gorilla Glue variants and I think I've done Gelato a few times. I've only grown from seed and have had few major disappointments but mostly great results.

I plan on doing a grow in a few months and, if I go with autos, it will most likely be a Mephisto strain. For photos, I've got to admit that I haven't done enough grows that I can draw any conclusions. Due to the summer heat here in Southern California, I do only two grows a year with only one strain.

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I want to try some girls scout cookies! I also want to try some autos aswell! How long/how many grows have you done you seem like you've got plenty under your belt that's for sure! And here in the UK I don't have that problem. I actually benefit from the extra heating that is a created from the lights not a bad by product of pretty much free weed which is great!