Strain Mutation for Stealth Phenotypes?

I have been researching Fet's work with his Dizzy strain, as well as looking at Lowryder, Ducksfoot and ABC, and have been wondering, would it be worthwhile to take some strains with characteristics that appeal to me, and stress them under a variety of conditions and mutagens to give me something to start breeding a weed plant that looks more like a garden herb? This is definitely a long term endeavor, unless I get insanely lucky in the first few rounds, but I think it would be of great value to the community and myself.

I think the characteristics I'd be going for would be extreme shortness (Lowryder), non characteristic leaves (Ducksfoot or ABC three pointed leaves would be best) and a non marijuana looking branching structure (Dizzy), as well as low to no smell (or an uncharacteristic smell).

Ambitious? Yes. Useful? Extremely! Plant it in your herb garden and forget about watching over your fence for the LEOs.

I'd buy a bag of seeds of those. Keep up the good work.

I haven't done anything yet, I'd like to get some information on what people think about it, maybe see if anyone has anything to offer in the form of tips or advice or starting strains, etc...

As soon as Auzzie07 gets his bag of seeds, I want mine too please.

I'm kind of confused...you're hoping to induce mutation through stress? and then harvest the mutated seeds and have new phenotypic offspring?

as someone who's been transforming plants for the past two years (not trying to sound like a dick) I'd say you have a very low chance of success with this approach.

there are ways to induce point mutations and screen for mutants...but do you really have room to be growing 1000 plants? genetic alteration and then selection of significant phenotypes takes a LOT of plants, room, lights, nutes, MONEY. high throughput is the only way to achieve anything worthwhile...and the chemicals used to induce mutations are extreme mutagens (obviously) and will hurt you if not used correctly.

I applaud your ambition...but, i'd say just grow your stuff and be happy. genetic alteration is not a simple task.

That's exactly the kind of discussion I am looking for. I was thinking that yes, stressing the plants would make them more prone to mutation than just gambling on randomness in the genetics. I'd also like to experiment with cross breeding certain rather mutated strains. I don't want to start from scratch with a perfectly healthy plant and try to get it to be different, I want to start with plants already known to have genetic issues/differences and stress and breed them on a rather small scale (50-100 plants) in the hopes of getting something that's not easily recognizable as weed, but is still potent enough to be worth smoking.

pokey said:

That's exactly the kind of discussion I am looking for. I was thinking that yes, stressing the plants would make them more prone to mutation than just gambling on randomness in the genetics. I'd also like to experiment with cross breeding certain rather mutated strains. I don't want to start from scratch with a perfectly healthy plant and try to get it to be different, I want to start with plants already known to have genetic issues/differences and stress and breed them on a rather small scale (50-100 plants) in the hopes of getting something that's not easily recognizable as weed, but is still potent enough to be worth smoking.

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well...I wont say it's impossible. in fact i'll bet crazier things have been accomplished. In fact I cant imagine a more fun way to spend a few years. Good luck dude! keep us posted if you find anything good.

if I had to point you in a direction that i'd choose to go, it would be trying to find a close relative to herb, something else in the cannibaceae family (it was recently reclassified, just check out the latest taxonomy on wikipedia) and trying to get it to breed. if you can achieve a phenotype closer to the relative that still produces cannabinoids, you might have a chance.

in fact...i'd kind of be surprised if people havent tried this already. I'd assume the biological pathway for cannabinoid production is too complex to be easily transferred through conventional breeding methods to a close relative. but...who knows.

like I said, (and in all sincerity) best of luck!

pokey said:

That's exactly the kind of discussion I am looking for. I was thinking that yes, stressing the plants would make them more prone to mutation than just gambling on randomness in the genetics.

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Stressing would make more sense than gambling on random mutation because, IMO, evolution is driven much more by a response to environmental factors than a fucked up mutation luckily being adaptive. The environment and its factors is what determines evolution.

I don't have any experience with evolving plants though.

i dont have a link or rememebr what it was caleld, but on the old ovrgrow we had a thread talkign aobut a mutien you can introduce that is used i beleive for orchids, if i coem across it in my reading i will post it here.

It will be alos interesting to see if you do the same exact stress (cut a branch a certain way, different light cycles over 20 generations or more, if the plant will adapt... I think I rememebr reading somethigna bout mice and they cut the ear of a mouse over many many generations, and the ear of the mouse started comign out deformed.


jsut a thougt.s.

Jriggs said:

I think I rememebr reading somethigna bout mice and they cut the ear of a mouse over many many generations, and the ear of the mouse started comign out deformed.


jsut a thougt.s.

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that would be cool, but no. thats like saying if you get a tattoo, then have a kid, that your kid will have the tattoo, thats simply not how it works.

if you want plant mutations..grow out some of DJ's blue lines like f13 an such..there are known mutants lurking in those strains....thats where i would start...peace az

so your saying over the years babys will come out with tit jobs??...lol..just being a jokester..

I thought of something like this before, I just thought it'd be cool though, I didn't think about it like this. I would think that breeding strains that have more mutations than others would be a nice place to start. and, maybe, if we knew why pot makes THC, we could give it more of a reason to produce THC over alot of generations, and you could get super pot or something.

this is whats going on thc levels now blow away what was arouns in the eairly eightys when i was in high school genitic engineering

robert 14617 said:

this is whats going on thc levels now blow away what was arouns in the eairly eightys when i was in high school genitic engineering

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wow, you were genetic engineering in high school in the 80's?


no, it isnt genetic engineering that is responsible for the THC levels, it is simply good breeding practices.

best theory at the moment that i've heard is that THC is a protective response to predatious insects.

sorry you're right thank you for correcting me

In response to evolution having nothing to do with mutations - that's ridiculous. While evolution IS a response to environmental factors, plants don't go "it's hot, I think I'll have a baby that's more heat resistant," but have mutations in their subsequent generations that may or may not be beneficial to the species in the environment. This is a fundamental principle of evolution. The stronger reproduce better and pass their mutated BETTER genes on to more and more generations than the other plants that have offspring with shitty mutations. This is why everything gets better, and nothing gets worse (unless it sucks at adapting, and dies off!).

I don't know anything about weed getting better since the 80's, but every crop since the dawn of the agricultural revolution has gotten "better" due to both adapting to the environment, and selective breeding via human intervention. Great examples would be wheat crops going from piddly harvests to monstrous "mutated" crops in a matter of centuries (and in some cases, decades).

I don't think this endeavor is at all crazy, since all marijuana strains we have today are the result of human intervention. Maybe turning a pot plant from White Widow to something that looks like cabbage is far-fetched, but getting results that you'll be proud of isn't.

I think you're on the right track with using plants like Ducksfoot and dizzy with characteristics close to what you want. Mutagens however... not sure exactly how that would work. You would have to create phenotype altering mutations that would be passed on to future generations. This would require knowing a bit about Marijuana genetics and a vast amount of mutagens. Not sure if this correlates to marijuana, but animals have a fail-safe that most cancers aren't passed on to future generations because of the difference between DNA replication in sex cells compared to normal cells. The cancer stays with the person who got it - not passed on to the kid.

My only advice is don't quit after like 2 years, because getting something you're desiring is going to take a LOT of patience, especially on the scale of 100 plant crops. GOOD LUCK!