The Long March to 11/24

printer · 2024-04-24T12:12:21-0600

A good news article for the Democrats? Or nobody cares?
Democrats seen as more successful at passing legislation: Survey
Democrats are seen as more successful at passing legislation in the House of Representatives than their party counterparts, according to a new Monmouth University poll.

More than half of Americans, 53 percent, said that Democrats have been more successful at getting legislation passed when they are in control of the lower chamber. Almost one in four, around 39 percent, said they were “unsuccessful.”

In contrast, less than one-third of Americans in the poll said the GOP has been successful at getting bills through when they are in power. The majority of respondents, 65 percent, said they’ve been unsuccessful.

“We’ve gone from one of the most productive to one of the least productive Congresses over the course of Biden’s time in office,” said Patrick Murray, the director of the independent Monmouth University Polling Institute. “Most Americans have noticed the disparity, but this metric does not appear to have much impact on their overall opinion. Views of Congress have remained largely negative over the past three years regardless of which party controls the House.”

Democrats were far more likely to state that their party is more fruitful at passing bills compared to their counterparts, while Republicans see both parties’ ability the same way.

The majority of Democrats, 73 percent, said their side is good at getting legislation passed, but only 21 percent said the same about Republicans, according to the poll.

The Republicans said that both Democrats, at 40 percent, and Republicans, at 41 percent, are able to pass bills when they have the majority in the House.

The poll also found that only one in five Americans want Speaker Mike Johnson (R-La.) to be replaced. Additionally, his favorability among Democrats has grown since December.

The Monmouth University poll surveyed 808 adults from April 18-22. It had a margin of error of 4.1 percent.
thehill.com/homenews/house/4618423-democrats-seen-as-more-successful-at-passing-legislation-survey/

cannabineer · 2024-04-24T12:42:53-0600

printer said:
A good news article for the Democrats? Or nobody cares?
Democrats seen as more successful at passing legislation: Survey
Democrats are seen as more successful at passing legislation in the House of Representatives than their party counterparts, according to a new Monmouth University poll.

More than half of Americans, 53 percent, said that Democrats have been more successful at getting legislation passed when they are in control of the lower chamber. Almost one in four, around 39 percent, said they were “unsuccessful.”

In contrast, less than one-third of Americans in the poll said the GOP has been successful at getting bills through when they are in power. The majority of respondents, 65 percent, said they’ve been unsuccessful.

“We’ve gone from one of the most productive to one of the least productive Congresses over the course of Biden’s time in office,” said Patrick Murray, the director of the independent Monmouth University Polling Institute. “Most Americans have noticed the disparity, but this metric does not appear to have much impact on their overall opinion. Views of Congress have remained largely negative over the past three years regardless of which party controls the House.”

Democrats were far more likely to state that their party is more fruitful at passing bills compared to their counterparts, while Republicans see both parties’ ability the same way.

The majority of Democrats, 73 percent, said their side is good at getting legislation passed, but only 21 percent said the same about Republicans, according to the poll.

The Republicans said that both Democrats, at 40 percent, and Republicans, at 41 percent, are able to pass bills when they have the majority in the House.

The poll also found that only one in five Americans want Speaker Mike Johnson (R-La.) to be replaced. Additionally, his favorability among Democrats has grown since December.

The Monmouth University poll surveyed 808 adults from April 18-22. It had a margin of error of 4.1 percent.
thehill.com/homenews/house/4618423-democrats-seen-as-more-successful-at-passing-legislation-survey/

It’s not good news. It’s not news. It’s a poll.

Fogdog · 2024-04-24T13:17:50-0600

cannabineer said:
It’s not good news. It’s not news. It’s a poll.

Thanks for the heaping portion of cold oatmeal.

I see some movement toward the good here whatever you want to call it. Enjoy your cold oats.

cannabineer · 2024-04-24T13:35:56-0600

Fogdog said:
Thanks for the heaping portion of cold oatmeal.

I see some movement toward the good here whatever you want to call it. Enjoy your cold oats.

Polled oats

Fogdog · 2024-04-24T13:54:14-0600

That vid right there starts out with showing us one hell of an ad against Trump. Trump in fact sold out the unions during his term in office. And those unions do not forget that. "Trump promised he'd fix pensions and we didn't see one word of that in the bill that gave tax cuts to the rich" (paraphrased). All narrated by the president of the Builder's Trade Union who was conned into showing support for Trump in 2017. There is no worse enemy than a person who realizes they've been lied to and taken advantage of. Trump did that to this man and his voice in that ad rings with his outrage at what Trump did.

After showing the ad, Morning Joe interviewed the union officer who narrated that ad, the president of the Builder's Trade Union. He has a trade union with 3 million members and he's ready to give the message to his union. Biden fulfilled the promises he made to protect their pensions and put union members to work through the three infrastructure bills. This was the cornerstone of the message he wants to get out to his union members. Biden and the then Democratic-party controlled Congress managed to get important work done before the hapless, ineffective and anti-worker Republican-controlled House came into power in 2022 with the mandate to stop American progress.

If this is what the Biden campaign looks like going forward, and I think it is, Republicans will get the minority status they seem to crave.

OldMedUser · 2024-04-24T13:58:56-0600

printer said:
The poll also found that only one in five Americans want Speaker Mike Johnson (R-La.) to be replaced. Additionally, his favorability among Democrats has grown since December.

People, especially Dems, should look a little more deeply into Johnson and what he's all about before thinking he'd be a good guy to keep in any position of power.

If he gets Mitch's job I foresee a lot more maga type fuckery coming our way. Just because he caved on Ukraine support doesn't mean he's all good.

Be careful what we wish for.

:peace:

printer · 2024-04-24T15:11:30-0600

cannabineer said:
It’s not good news. It’s not news. It’s a poll.

It goes against the thought that the Democrats are doing nothing to advance and pass bills. If only 20% of people gave the Democrats a thumbs up then it would be news. Is 50% thinking that they are not doing a bad job news (thinking new information that you might not have known as news)? Why are any polls reported in the news? If it were not newsworthy no one would read an article on a poll result? People do like a horse race.

printer · 2024-04-24T15:17:57-0600

OldMedUser said:
People, especially Dems, should look a little more deeply into Johnson and what he's all about before thinking he'd be a good guy to keep in any position of power.

If he gets Mitch's job I foresee a lot more maga type fuckery coming our way. Just because he caved on Ukraine support doesn't mean he's all good.

Be careful what we wish for.

Johnson is leader of the House, McConnel is opposition leader in the Senate. On Johnson being someone you can work with, I think he has learned a lot more about the US's place in the world than when he first took the position.

OldMedUser · 2024-04-24T15:46:39-0600

printer said:
Johnson is leader of the House, McConnel is opposition leader in the Senate. On Johnson being someone you can work with, I think he has learned a lot more about the US's place in the world than when he first took the position.

I know where he's at now but he has aspirations to move up and infuse politics with his evangelist, right-wing creationist religious leanings. Too many links out there to bother listing any but just pop "Mike Johnson religious leanings' into your favourite search engine to find lots to be concerned about.

The worst of it is he isn't one of these right-wingers using their pseudo christianity to cover their sins and push their agendas loudly and inappropriately but actually believes in all the wacky stuff and will do his best to bring it to the political scene. Like pushing to allow churches to get into politics without losing their tax-exempt status.

If the new speaker of the House goes after the Johnson Amendment (no relation!), it will be bad for elections and religion.

With the unexpected rise of Mike Johnson to the House speakership, reporters have been delving into his past, focusing in particular on positions he’s taken on topics like abortion, guns, and the 2020 election, as well as his proximity to Donald Trump. Most reporting has commented on Johnson’s conservative Christian beliefs, which at times veer close to Christian nationalism. However, there is an important tax angle. There always is. In this case, it seems almost certain that Johnson will attempt to repeal or weaken the Johnson Amendment (no relation!), which bans tax-exempt organizations, including churches, from participating in political campaigns.

Mike Johnson Wants to Unleash Ministers on Politics

Expect the new speaker of the House to go after the Johnson Amendment (no relation).

slate.com

IMO if he were ever to become president he'd do more damage than tRump as he's a lot smarter and a lot sneakier than that blowhard.

:peace:

printer · 2024-04-24T15:55:20-0600

OldMedUser said:
I know where he's at now but he has aspirations to move up and infuse politics with his evangelist, right-wing creationist religious leanings. Too many links out there to bother listing any but just pop "Mike Johnson religious leanings' into your favourite search engine to find lots to be concerned about.

The worst of it is he isn't one of these right-wingers using their pseudo christianity to cover their sins and push their agendas loudly and inappropriately but actually believes in all the wacky stuff and will do his best to bring it to the political scene. Like pushing to allow churches to get into politics without losing their tax-exempt status.

If the new speaker of the House goes after the Johnson Amendment (no relation!), it will be bad for elections and religion.

With the unexpected rise of Mike Johnson to the House speakership, reporters have been delving into his past, focusing in particular on positions he’s taken on topics like abortion, guns, and the 2020 election, as well as his proximity to Donald Trump. Most reporting has commented on Johnson’s conservative Christian beliefs, which at times veer close to Christian nationalism. However, there is an important tax angle. There always is. In this case, it seems almost certain that Johnson will attempt to repeal or weaken the Johnson Amendment (no relation!), which bans tax-exempt organizations, including churches, from participating in political campaigns.

Mike Johnson Wants to Unleash Ministers on Politics

Expect the new speaker of the House to go after the Johnson Amendment (no relation).

slate.com

IMO if he were ever to become president he'd do more damage than tRump as he's a lot smarter and a lot sneakier than that blowhard.

No he is not perfect. But I think he might be more trustworthy than the people that are faking it in order to hold power. He was in the freedom caucus and yet he seems to be able to work with Biden rather than burn the place down. I doubt the Republicans could elect someone better given their makeup.

OldMedUser · 2024-04-24T18:26:50-0600

printer said:
No he is not perfect. But I think he might be more trustworthy than the people that are faking it in order to hold power. He was in the freedom caucus and yet he seems to be able to work with Biden rather than burn the place down. I doubt the Republicans could elect someone better given their makeup.

Even the best of a toxic bunch is still toxic tho and all the responsible repubs are abandoning the sinking ship. I am certain the repubs will get burned down in Nov and from the ashes will emerge someone that will steer the rest into acting like they should once all the magas are purged. They will have to rebuild back to a proper party or fade away. Even some of the maga base is getting repulsed with what's going on and there's plenty of decent repubs out there just afraid to voice their opinions while tRump rules the roost but that's not for much longer. Once he and his cult followers are shoved aside things can get back to normal.

This time next year I could see the dumpster living in a van down by the river somewhere if he hasn't already blown a gasket from all the stress of losing everything once all his trials are done.

:peace:

printer · 2024-04-24T18:39:38-0600

OldMedUser said:
Even the best of a toxic bunch is still toxic tho and all the responsible repubs are abandoning the sinking ship. I am certain the repubs will get burned down in Nov and from the ashes will emerge someone that will steer the rest into acting like they should once all the magas are purged. They will have to rebuild back to a proper party or fade away. Even some of the maga base is getting repulsed with what's going on and there's plenty of decent repubs out there just afraid to voice their opinions while tRump rules the roost but that's not for much longer. Once he and his cult followers are shoved aside things can get back to normal.

This time next year I could see the dumpster living in a van down by the river somewhere if he hasn't already blown a gasket from all the stress of losing everything once all his trials are done.

But the youth vote along with Hispanics not being happy could put Trump back in the game.

Fogdog · 2024-04-24T18:58:23-0600

printer said:
No he is not perfect. But I think he might be more trustworthy than the people that are faking it in order to hold power. He was in the freedom caucus and yet he seems to be able to work with Biden rather than burn the place down. I doubt the Republicans could elect someone better given their makeup.

We can certainly agree that he's not perfect. But really, he blocked that bill for MONTHS and only relented on letting it pass to the floor of the House after it became clear that the US people were going to hold him and his Republican Congress responsible if Ukraine lost the war because HE blocked aid at a critical time.

And THEN, he couldn't rally his caucus to vote for the bill. Every Democrat, all 210 of them, voted for aid to Ukraine while the Republican caucus was split, with more voting against it than for it. So, fuck Republicans and fuck their leader who obstructed aid and is responsible for the deaths of an untold number of Ukrainian heroes who died defending their country while lacking arms that could have been in their hands making Russians die for theirs.

No, we should not reward Johnson for doing the minimum. His "contribution" was getting the fuck out of the way.

And now, he's calling for the National Guard to attack people who are exercising their right to protest against US actions that support unnecessary deaths in Gaza. Mike Johnson has blood on his hands and he seems to be completely willing to sacrifice more lives for his God, whoever that is. It isn't the Christian one.

cannabineer · 2024-04-24T19:17:02-0600

printer said:
It goes against the thought that the Democrats are doing nothing to advance and pass bills. If only 20% of people gave the Democrats a thumbs up then it would be news. Is 50% thinking that they are not doing a bad job news (thinking new information that you might not have known as news)? Why are any polls reported in the news? If it were not newsworthy no one would read an article on a poll result? People do like a horse race.

Polls are a very popular product of the news industry. However sensu stricto they aren’t news in the sense of current or very recent events.

Polls (excluding the one poll that matters) are in demand from news companies because people read them. They’re popular. They’re a great way to generate content to fill some pages.

I’ve written about this before in more depth, so I will be brief. The big problem with polls, now that there are hundreds of polling enterprises, is rigor or lack thereof. Most published polls work with a rather small sample group of opinions, which introduces a large random error.

Of greater concern to me is systematic error. Two leading sources of this are polls where the respondent group self-selects, as in voluntary polls of the sort that saturate online news articles. Also, the questions almost always have a leading/loaded component that biases outcomes because the questions elicit sentiment in the pollees. As a result, it is not hard to bias these polls in an undisclosed direction that satisfies the biases of the pollsters.

Compounding factor: most people mistake polls for legitimate news. This exposes them to a manipulation of which they are unaware. Since pollsters make money on their output, there is a motive not to emphasize this aspect of apparent information to be gained by studying poll results. The companies making money and clicks off polls are understandably very quiet about these caveats.

Polls masquerading as news (i. e. reasonably objective accounts of current events andor conditions) are not improving the otherwise intelligent consumer’s already weakened capacity or inclination to apply critical thought to news in the greater sense. This is why I spend time (mine and yours) belaboring this point.

I see value in counseling skepticism when faced with the shepherd’s pie of fact, statistics of opinions, and editorial analysis whizzed together in one bowl … in news pieces whose backbone is a poll.

printer · 2024-04-24T19:26:49-0600

Fogdog said:
We can certainly agree that he's not perfect. But really, he blocked that bill for MONTHS and only relented on letting it pass to the floor of the House after it became clear that the US people were going to hold him and his Republican Congress responsible if Ukraine lost the war because HE blocked aid at a critical time.

And THEN, he couldn't rally his caucus to vote for the bill. Every Democrat, all 210 of them, voted for aid to Ukraine while the Republican caucus was split, with more voting against it than for it. So, fuck Republicans and fuck their leader who obstructed aid and is responsible for the deaths of an untold number of Ukrainian heroes who died defending their country while lacking arms that could have been in their hands making Russians die for theirs.

No, we should not reward Johnson for doing the minimum. His "contribution" was getting the fuck out of the way.

And now, he's calling for the National Guard to attack people who are exercising their right to protest against US actions that support unnecessary deaths in Gaza. Mike Johnson has blood on his hands and he seems to be completely willing to sacrifice more lives for his God, whoever that is. It isn't the Christian one.

Keep in mind that this is US politics and a newly minted speaker who knows he could be taken out quite easily if Trump informs Greene to go ahead. He is learning you can not please all republicans at the same time with a slim majority. He is learning the speakership is not all glory and that it is a lot harder than it looks. He has a lot to learn, if he can hang onto the position. But looking at him another way, would Gym Jordon be a better speaker? I am sure he is better qualified and much more slimy. So no I am not giving him a pass, just saying he would be better than a Gym in the seat.

printer · 2024-04-24T19:38:35-0600

cannabineer said:
Polls are a very popular product of the news industry. However sensu stricto they aren’t news in the sense of current or very recent events.

Polls (excluding the one poll that matters) are in demand from news companies because people read them. They’re popular. They’re a great way to generate content to fill some pages.

I’ve written about this before in more depth, so I will be brief. The big problem with polls, now that there are hundreds of polling enterprises, is rigor or lack thereof. Most published polls work with a rather small sample group of opinions, which introduces a large random error.

Of greater concern to me is systematic error. Two leading sources of this are polls where the respondent group self-selects, as in voluntary polls of the sort that saturate online news articles. Also, the questions almost always have a leading/loaded component that biases outcomes because the questions elicit sentiment in the pollees. As a result, it is not hard to bias these polls in an undisclosed direction that satisfies the biases of the pollsters.

Compounding factor: most people mistake polls for legitimate news. This exposes them to a manipulation of which they are unaware. Since pollsters make money on their output, there is a motive not to emphasize this aspect of apparent information to be gained by studying poll results. The companies making money and clicks off polls are understandably very quiet about these caveats.

Polls masquerading as news (i. e. reasonably objective accounts of current events andor conditions) are not improving the otherwise intelligent consumer’s already weakened capacity or inclination to apply critical thought to news in the greater sense. This is why I spend time (mine and yours) belaboring this point.

I see value in counseling skepticism when faced with the shepherd’s pie of fact, statistics of opinions, and editorial analysis whizzed together in one bowl … in news pieces whose backbone is a poll.

Monmouth University is one of the top respected polling outlets. Polls can give an idea on how the public sees a topic. Whether you believe a poll is not news does not change the fact that the polls are reported in the news and can influence people. And people are interested enough to make them newsworthy. I understand what you are saying but ultimatly they can have an effect which makes them newsworthy.

cannabineer · 2024-04-24T19:41:36-0600

printer said:
Monmouth University is one of the top respected polling outlets. Polls can give an idea on how the public sees a topic. Whether you believe a poll is not news does not change the fact that the polls are reported in the news and can influence people. And people are interested enough to make them newsworthy. I understand what you are saying but ultimatly they can have an effect which makes them newsworthy.

Agreed.
However I caution that much of that influence is tailored by the sponsors of many pollsters.
Polls are being used as much to distort public opinion as to gauge it. Caveat lector.

printer · 2024-04-24T20:26:57-0600

cannabineer said:
Agreed.
However I caution that much of that influence is tailored by the sponsors of many pollsters.
Polls are being used as much to distort public opinion as to gauge it. Caveat lector.

I check out who is giving the poll before I take it as being credible.

Fogdog · 2024-04-24T20:42:36-0600

printer said:
Keep in mind that this is US politics and a newly minted speaker who knows he could be taken out quite easily if Trump informs Greene to go ahead. He is learning you can not please all republicans at the same time with a slim majority. He is learning the speakership is not all glory and that it is a lot harder than it looks. He has a lot to learn, if he can hang onto the position. But looking at him another way, would Gym Jordon be a better speaker? I am sure he is better qualified and much more slimy. So no I am not giving him a pass, just saying he would be better than a Gym in the seat.

No, I don't reward doing the minimum.

He's already agitating for sending the National Guard on college campuses to quell protests against US support for Israel's actions in Gaza. So, fuck him. I'll keep in mind that he is responsible for delaying that package and the people of this country led HIM to release the aid to Ukraine, thank you very much for nothing, Mike Johnson.

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