Thoughts on using unground flower for cannabutter?

Hairybuds

Well-Known Member
I make a slurry of decarbed buds and grind them into dust in an old coffee grinder.

I mix this with a little liquid lecithin and coconut oil. Sometimes I add terpenes as well.

After warming it up and stirring it gets liquid enough to suck into a plastic pipette. I cut the tip back to open the hole, because depending on dose it can get thick. This is also why you grind decarbed buds into flower. The finer the grind the better the mix.

I use size 00 gel caps. Each one holds .91ml. I use a graduated beaker to measure milliliters. You need a little high school math and if you can estimate the buds in % of cannabinoids you can then get a reasonable estimate of strength per capsule.

I have 12 varieties in my freezer right now, lol. It's the best I've found to replicate smoking/vaping in an edible without any weed taste, well other than the odd burp.

Bad news is coconut oil will become liquid over 76F, so it's its best to store in a cool place.
I really like the above, your getting all the plant and it’s effects. With a decarb in the Sous vide and pouch or mason jar and instant pot this retains all its goodness and made into a slurry nothing is wasted, pure as it can be.

I also like they can be stored in freezer for a really long time. I’ve been wondering how to move forward on this, it seems clear now.

First run is to calculate the mg per volume, take that volume see the effects and reduce potency by adding more oil or if it needs more potency add more slurried decarbed bud
 

Hairybuds

Well-Known Member
I make a slurry of decarbed buds and grind them into dust in an old coffee grinder.

I mix this with a little liquid lecithin and coconut oil. Sometimes I add terpenes as well.

After warming it up and stirring it gets liquid enough to suck into a plastic pipette. I cut the tip back to open the hole, because depending on dose it can get thick. This is also why you grind decarbed buds into flower. The finer the grind the better the mix.

I use size 00 gel caps. Each one holds .91ml. I use a graduated beaker to measure milliliters. You need a little high school math and if you can estimate the buds in % of cannabinoids you can then get a reasonable estimate of strength per capsule.

I have 12 varieties in my freezer right now, lol. It's the best I've found to replicate smoking/vaping in an edible without any weed taste, well other than the odd burp.

Bad news is coconut oil will become liquid over 76F, so it's its best to store in a cool place.
What do you start with for grams of flower per ml of oil? What are you shooting for in mg per capsule?
 

LeastExpectedGrower

Well-Known Member
I make a slurry of decarbed buds and grind them into dust in an old coffee grinder.

I mix this with a little liquid lecithin and coconut oil. Sometimes I add terpenes as well.

After warming it up and stirring it gets liquid enough to suck into a plastic pipette. I cut the tip back to open the hole, because depending on dose it can get thick. This is also why you grind decarbed buds into flower. The finer the grind the better the mix.

I use size 00 gel caps. Each one holds .91ml. I use a graduated beaker to measure milliliters. You need a little high school math and if you can estimate the buds in % of cannabinoids you can then get a reasonable estimate of strength per capsule.

I have 12 varieties in my freezer right now, lol. It's the best I've found to replicate smoking/vaping in an edible without any weed taste, well other than the odd burp.

Bad news is coconut oil will become liquid over 76F, so it's its best to store in a cool place.
Yeah, this is on my plate to try one of these minutes.
 

LeastExpectedGrower

Well-Known Member
Any ideas on what the lowest effective temperature is to strip the THC from decarbed cannabis into butter? I know that all the guidance says don't go over 200f degrees, but what is the bottom of the range where the fats in the butter will take on the THC molecules? Going to do another round this weekend, and as always looking to see what's most effective.

I'll be decarbing in Sous Vide again ~200F (for 2 hours) then doing the butter in a similar fashion. Last time I did 185F per what others have done, but what would be an effective temp/time to infuse to not break the chemistry down as little as possible?

I've been looking at the option of doing the decarb in butter, but I see a lot of people saying that this doesn't really work.
 

shredder4

Well-Known Member
I've read 200-220° F for infusing. I think thats inline with the magic butter machine as well.

But I don't know how low you can go to infuse. I'd guess you can go lower than 190 if you increase the time.

One of my coffee warmers I've used for infusing small amounts floats between 190-210°F and seems to work OK.

For bigger amounts I use a Nova fx.
 

LeastExpectedGrower

Well-Known Member
I've read 200-220° F for infusing. I think thats inline with the magic butter machine as well.

But I don't know how low you can go to infuse. I'd guess you can go lower than 190 if you increase the time.

One of my coffee warmers I've used for infusing small amounts floats between 190-210°F and seems to work OK.

For bigger amounts I use a Nova fx.
Cool. I mean, I can go up to 208F with SV, but working to decarb correctly then also infuse effectively. Last week when I did this, I decarbed at 200F for 2 hours then did the butter at 185F for 4 hours and the suggestion here is that it may have broken down the THC a bit. So I'm looking to do it again but tighten up what I do so that's not as much of a possibility. Decarbing directly in the butter seems to be a thing that many suggest against, so that's probably a no-go.
 

craggin

Member
This is great thread. Never thought about using a Sous Vide! Like @cindysid, I just spread it all out on cookie sheets & into the oven for decarb.

I stopped grinding my trim & popcorn a while back. Like others have already said, less green, less objectionable taste/smell, and easily able to get the same potency by upping the ratio between cannabis & butter/oil. I've also moved almost entirely to coconut oil over butter.
 

Hairybuds

Well-Known Member
Cool. I mean, I can go up to 208F with SV, but working to decarb correctly then also infuse effectively. Last week when I did this, I decarbed at 200F for 2 hours then did the butter at 185F for 4 hours and the suggestion here is that it may have broken down the THC a bit. So I'm looking to do it again but tighten up what I do so that's not as much of a possibility. Decarbing directly in the butter seems to be a thing that many suggest against, so that's probably a no-go.
I’d be real interested in your results. I read on grow weed easy they infused for 3 hours at slow cooker temps.

From the picture in this thread of test results on slow cooker it looks like at those temps it only needs about 90-120 minutes

I turned on the slow cooker with just water, it took almost 3 hours to get up to temp of about 195, that may make a big difference with that method. Pre heating is probably really important with a slow cooker.

It seems to me if you take your Decarb time and add the infusion time these two are your total “decarb” time
 

LeastExpectedGrower

Well-Known Member
This is great thread. Never thought about using a Sous Vide! Like @cindysid, I just spread it all out on cookie sheets & into the oven for decarb.

I stopped grinding my trim & popcorn a while back. Like others have already said, less green, less objectionable taste/smell, and easily able to get the same potency by upping the ratio between cannabis & butter/oil. I've also moved almost entirely to coconut oil over butter.
Thanks! Here's how 'not green' the butter I made last week was. So not green that I worried about the process not working correctly until I tried it.

IMG_2766.jpg

Super mild flavor too. I could just get the flavor profile mildly when I tried it by itself, but once I made the treats with it, you'd have no idea.

I've played with coconut oil too (also sunflower lecithin), for some of my honey, but honestly need to get different coconut oil since the 'virgin' oil I bought is super strong coconut flavor.

I think I'm also going to try a run with doubling the amount of cannabis then halving whatever I use in the recipe, that should further lower any cannaflavor profile.
 

LeastExpectedGrower

Well-Known Member
I’d be real interested in your results. I read on grow weed easy they infused for 3 hours at slow cooker temps.

From the picture in this thread of test results on slow cooker it looks like at those temps it only needs about 90-120 minutes

I turned on the slow cooker with just water, it took almost 3 hours to get up to temp of about 195, that may make a big difference with that method. Pre heating is probably really important with a slow cooker.

It seems to me if you take your Decarb time and add the infusion time these two are your total “decarb” time
Well that chart...First off it's made by Ardent, who is actually a good company and I have no qualms with, but they're trying to sell stand alone decarb units and this is part of their 'kit' to do that. So, while I don't know that I'd take it at 100% accuracy. That said, one of these days I'll get one anyway.

I think the other piece you have to take is that crockpots are not precise instruments. I used one for some of my honey infusions and found that the temps on them range from well below the suggested 190F to over the boiling point. I ran a digital thermometer in the water and watched it across the hours I ran things. The thermostats on most crockpots are not precise and they do a heat-then-cool cycle that has something like 30-40F degrees of variance, I'd guess. That all aside, yeah, not worth putting your stuff in the water bath and starting the timer until you're up to temp.

That's the difference with sous vide...the temp accuracy and stability of the unit I have is plus/minus .2f and its constantly adjusting to hit the right number.

So the effective decarb time at 200F sous vide is 2 hours. Pretty much all recipes (and incidental online commentary) say that you need to decarb first before butter infusion. Then the common number that I see most is to infuse the butter for 4 hours, making a total of 6 hours. Trying to figure out how to get the most activation and infusion in the smallest time footprint.

Hey @cindysid, do you find that half an hour of infusion time is enough to feel like you're at full potency? So that maybe, I could do something like 2 hours of decarb then 30 minutes of infusion, or maybe try something like an hour to partially decarb then an hour of decarb/infusion?
 

Hairybuds

Well-Known Member
I've kinda been experimenting with grind vs hands on. I make capsules with coconut oil and just did a batch of ground (food processor) vs finger grind and found the end result quite different. Here's simple finger grindView attachment 5064220
And the processed
View attachment 5064221
both had same amount of bud&oil added. Darker ones are much stronger, in taste also. Have you tried any flavor additives? Im going to try some next time. Also do you add Lecithin? Helps emulsion & digestion :joint:
@SBBCal did you find a difference in effect between the finger and processed caps?
 

shredder4

Well-Known Member
Well that chart...First off it's made by Ardent, who is actually a good company and I have no qualms with, but they're trying to sell stand alone decarb units and this is part of their 'kit' to do that. So, while I don't know that I'd take it at 100% accuracy. That said, one of these days I'll get one anyway.
I'm sure their testing results are valid. And their site is pretty educational, even if biased towards their products.

So that maybe, I could do something like 2 hours of decarb then 30 minutes of infusion, or maybe try something like an hour to partially decarb then an hour of decarb/infusion?
Somewhere on their site they mention you don't need the full time for infusion. But I think 30 minutes would be a minimum.

Infusing concentrates is so much easier, it's just mixing and stirring under gentle heat. Other than our weed caps, the rest of our edibles are from concentrates.
 

Hairybuds

Well-Known Member
I'm sure their testing results are valid. And their site is pretty educational, even if biased towards their products.



Somewhere on their site they mention you don't need the full time for infusion. But I think 30 minutes would be a minimum.

Infusing concentrates is so much easier, it's just mixing and stirring under gentle heat. Other than our weed caps, the rest of our edibles are from concentrates.
I agree, it seems valid, pretty good even if I’m losing 20% from decarbing it by Sous vide, slow cooker, pressure cooker, etc I’m so happy to be able to grow and consume my own medicine and not have to be subjected to big pharma’s prices and side effects
 

Hairybuds

Well-Known Member
Tried the pressure cooker today for decarbing. Placed flower in a mason jar and sealed it tight and placed in pressure cooker. I put it in for an hour because it’s cbd? Not sure on that.

Plan was to add coconut oil after decarb and blend until uniform then put into capsules. problem was the tiny bits still settle out so my plan of adding ground flower and oil into capsules didn’t work.

So onto plan B. I then put in decarbed flower with oil into pressure cooker for another 2 hours to infuse. Came out burnt tasting and dark coloured. Thinking of scaling it back to 1 hour decarb and 1 hour infuse to see how that goes.

Take away, when you seal the mason jar in pressure cooker there is zero smell, shocker right! I was just surprised the mason jar didn’t crack.

I cooled the mason jar before opening so everything changes state from a gas to a liquid to preserve all the low boiling point compounds. This is definitely my new favourite method with the tools I have on hand.
 
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shredder4

Well-Known Member
Plan was to add coconut oil after decarb and blend until uniform then put into capsules. problem was the tiny bits still settle out so my plan of adding ground flower and oil into capsules didn’t work
I grind decarbed buds into dust. Then it blends with lecithin and coconut oil much better and is easier to work with.

I cut back the tip of a plastic pipette to fill size 00 caps. That makes the hole bigger and easier to suck up the slurry to fill caps.

You may want to try dried and ground, but not decarbed cbd(a) as well. For certain conditions, like pain, cbda is said to work up to 100 times better than cbd.

I use cbda caps daily and like them better than decarbed cbd caps.
 

LeastExpectedGrower

Well-Known Member
Tried the pressure cooker today for decarbing. Placed flower in a mason jar and sealed it tight and placed in pressure cooker. I put it in for an hour because it’s cbd? Not sure on that.

Plan was to add coconut oil after decarb and blend until uniform then put into capsules. problem was the tiny bits still settle out so my plan of adding ground flower and oil into capsules didn’t work.

So onto plan B. I then put in decarbed flower with oil into pressure cooker for another 2 hours to infuse. Came out burnt tasting and dark coloured. Thinking of scaling it back to 1 hour decarb and 1 hour infuse to see how that goes.

Take away, when you seal the mason jar in pressure cooker there is zero smell, shocker right! I was just surprised the mason jar didn’t crack.

I cooled the mason jar before opening so everything changes state from a gas to a liquid to preserve all the low boiling point compounds. This is definitely my new favourite method with the tools I have on hand.
Yeah, I was going to say that maybe some lecithin would help keep solution. Other than that, I'd start playing with fussing with the semi-cooled oil as it solidifies. Once you get to a point where it's semi-solid it should hold any particulate until you get it in the capsules...after that it won't matter.

For everyone's talk about the unsafety of ball jars, I'm not really buying it. They're good to a few hundred degrees, and you don't want to let them contact water if they're up to temperature but dry, but beyond that, they're pretty stable.

But either way, I don't have any qualms about sinking them in a water bath or dry and in the oven for decarb or infusion.

I took a spoonful of my infused honey (w/lecithin & coconut oil) last night forgetting that it's pretty strong...and soon was very happy that at-home-date-night was just stiff cocktails and dinner in front of the fireplace with LotR Fellowship...by the time we made it to the end I could talk and walk again...
 

Bignutes

Well-Known Member
I grind decarbed buds into dust. Then it blends with lecithin and coconut oil much better and is easier to work with.

I cut back the tip of a plastic pipette to fill size 00 caps. That makes the hole bigger and easier to suck up the slurry to fill caps.

You may want to try dried and ground, but not decarbed cbd(a) as well. For certain conditions, like pain, cbda is said to work up to 100 times better than cbd.

I use cbda caps daily and like them better than decarbed cbd caps.
I did not know that cbda was better for pain, that’s a whole lot easier and better, thank you!

I did the fine grind on the flower but the issue is it settles down to the bottom. when I suck it up from one time to the next I end up with a lot of variability in flower content. I’m using a 10 ml syringe. Something like corn syrup like consistency would suspend flower dust into it I think for better consistency. Or could just dry it and grind into dust and fill without a carrier oil into the capsules.
 

Bignutes

Well-Known Member
Yeah, I was going to say that maybe some lecithin would help keep solution. Other than that, I'd start playing with fussing with the semi-cooled oil as it solidifies. Once you get to a point where it's semi-solid it should hold any particulate until you get it in the capsules...after that it won't matter.

For everyone's talk about the unsafety of ball jars, I'm not really buying it. They're good to a few hundred degrees, and you don't want to let them contact water if they're up to temperature but dry, but beyond that, they're pretty stable.

But either way, I don't have any qualms about sinking them in a water bath or dry and in the oven for decarb or infusion.

I took a spoonful of my infused honey (w/lecithin & coconut oil) last night forgetting that it's pretty strong...and soon was very happy that at-home-date-night was just stiff cocktails and dinner in front of the fireplace with LotR Fellowship...by the time we made it to the end I could talk and walk again...
They mason / ball work great, that reminds me of my wife, told her not to put the freshly out of the ovenPyrex dish under cold water, she was adamant that it wouldn’t be an issue, ended up with glass shards everywhere and her eating crow.

Yeah, these edibles can sure kick you in the junk. I’m gun shy on them from some pretty intense experiences.
 
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