Wrangling a Malawi in hydro/scrog

graying.geek

graying.geek

Well-Known Member
Been growing indicas and hybrids successfully for about 3 years in both soil and hydro/scrog but this time wanted to try a 100% Sativas, so I'd appreciate any experiential support you can offer. I sprouted a Malawi (Ace) and a Durban Poison (Dutch Passion) and poked them into my hydro system late February and kept them on a 20/4 light schedule.

The ScrOG screen went in about 30 cm above the pots, and when the plants grew to within 5 cm of the screen on 3/20, I switched them to 12/12. The Durban is showing pistils at the bud sites but the Malawi isn't even showing pre-flowers so I assume sexual maturity will happen in a week or 2 and she'll take off.

Here are the details:

ScrOG canopy is 60-cm X 120-cm
Lights: 400 watt EB diy series strip build
2-plant hydro system
80 liter res
Res water temp maintained at 16.5'C – 18.0'C
Room temp maintained at 21.5'C – 23.0'C and RH at 45%-50%
Water is ~60 PPM from the tap
Megacrop ver. 1 nutrients
At 2 weeks into flower, running the res at 1000 PPM Megacrop + 200 PPM P+K salts
Growth is good at 2+ cm/day and no overt signs of stress. Roots are healthy.

The Malawi is on the right....
IMG_20200331_094644864_HDR.jpg

A few questions for anyone with 100% Sativa experience:

1) When should I expect the Malawi to show preflower, and how long into flowering schedule does it take for buds to form?

2) I don't want to lose control of this thing; how long/much should I expect the Malawi to stretch? i.e. Do they continue to stretch until finish, or do they stop stretching after a few weeks and just pile on bud?

3) Any recommendations on nutrients? I was of the impression Sativas prefer lower nute PPMs, but so far, both plants seem happy above 1200 PPM.

Other experiential Sativa tips appreciated.
 

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Airwalker16

Airwalker16

Well-Known Member
Sorry to tell ya that's far from pure saliva. Honestly it's indica dominant. The reason your slow going getting ore flowers is because the plants just not old enough to even start showing pre flowers even if it was still vegging. That space looks small so be thankful it's not a true saliva. you'd have no chance with the amount of stretch and 16week flower timem
 
SnidleyBluntash

SnidleyBluntash

Well-Known Member
3) I am under the impression that sativas will take longer to flower if you have a high N fertilizer. If it does seem to take longer than expected consider dropping the ppm and see what happens
 
graying.geek

graying.geek

Well-Known Member
Airwalker16 said:
Sorry to tell ya that's far from pure saliva. Honestly it's indica dominant.
Click to expand...
The Durban is recognized as having some minimal indica genes, but all (other) sources tout the Malawi as being "pure" sativa. Indica dominant isn't even close. Interested the source of your info, though.
 
graying.geek

graying.geek

Well-Known Member
SnidleyBluntash said:
3) I am under the impression that sativas will take longer to flower if you have a high N fertilizer. If it does seem to take longer than expected consider dropping the ppm and see what happens
Click to expand...
Heard this as well. I plan on lowering the N nutes when I change out the res in another week or so.
 
Renfro

Renfro

Well-Known Member
They do exhibit some indica traits but there is some sativa in there. I have seen plants that looked very indica as youth turn more sativa as they mature / flower. Either way, healthy and time will tell.
 
graying.geek

graying.geek

Well-Known Member
@Airwalker16 and @Renfro, you guys might be focusing too much on the overall plant appearance. Before the Malawi hit the scrog she appeared much lankier and sativa-like, but it's deceptive because the scrog is keeping her low profile like you'd expect an indica to look. The fan leaves, though, are a bit more telling.

IMG_20200331_094617467_HDR.jpg

That said, it seems to me -- just from research, no first hand experience -- that the African sativas look a lot like indicas as youngsters, but once they mature they go full blown sativa. I've never seen a photo of a mature Ace Malawi that looked anything like something other than pure sativa.
 
Renfro

Renfro

Well-Known Member
graying.geek said:
Yeah, this is what I'm expecting, and hoping to get some advice on how to handle the stretch.
Click to expand...
Well the best thing is don't wait to flip them, looks like you got that covered.

Other things that can be done to help minimize stretch

1) less red spectrum and more blue spectrum during the stretch phase.
2) cooler temperatures during stretch.
3) topping the tallest nodes at the beginning of stretch will really put the brakes on them.
 
Airwalker16

Airwalker16

Well-Known Member
graying.geek said:
@Airwalker16 and @Renfro, you guys might be focusing too much on the overall plant appearance. Before the Malawi hit the scrog she appeared much lankier and sativa-like, but it's deceptive because the scrog is keeping her low profile like you'd expect an indica to look. The fan leaves, though, are a bit more telling.

View attachment 4522477

That said, it seems to me -- just from research, no first hand experience -- that the African sativas look a lot like indicas as youngsters, but once they mature they go full blown sativa. I've never seen a photo of a mature Ace Malawi that looked anything like something other than pure sativa.
Click to expand...
Indica indica indica. Huge Jurassic leaves on a plant that stout.... But.....As @Renfro said though, time will tell!
 
Renfro

Renfro

Well-Known Member
Airwalker16 said:
Indica indica indica. Huge Jurassic leaves on a plant that stout.... But.....As @Renfro said though, time will tell!
Click to expand...
A more pure indica would have fatter leaf blades, even overlapping. They also have really rounded serrations. There is definitely some sativa in there. The largest overall leaves I have seen are from sativas, dinner plate sized 13 bladers.
 
Airwalker16

Airwalker16

Well-Known Member
Renfro said:
A more pure indica would have fatter leaf blades, even overlapping. They also have really rounded serrations. There is definitely some sativa in there. The largest overall leaves I have seen are from sativas, dinner plate sized 13 bladers.
Click to expand...
Not saying its all Indica. But I am DEFINITELY saying neither are 100% Saliva as he claimed them to be. They're just not... There is likely some saliva, but even so, they're dominantly Indica meaning more than 50%. But as you said, we will have to wait n see. Personally though, I don't expect much change after flower, though.
 
OldMedUser

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
graying.geek said:
Been growing indicas and hybrids successfully for about 3 years in both soil and hydro/scrog but this time wanted to try a 100% Sativas, so I'd appreciate any experiential support you can offer. I sprouted a Malawi (Ace) and a Durban Poison (Dutch Passion) and poked them into my hydro system late February and kept them on a 20/4 light schedule.

The ScrOG screen went in about 30 cm above the pots, and when the plants grew to within 5 cm of the screen on 3/20, I switched them to 12/12. The Durban is showing pistils at the bud sites but the Malawi isn't even showing pre-flowers so I assume sexual maturity will happen in a week or 2 and she'll take off.

Here are the details:

ScrOG canopy is 60-cm X 120-cm
Lights: 400 watt EB diy series strip build
2-plant hydro system
80 liter res
Res water temp maintained at 16.5'C – 18.0'C
Room temp maintained at 21.5'C – 23.0'C and RH at 45%-50%
Water is ~60 PPM from the tap
Megacrop ver. 1 nutrients
At 2 weeks into flower, running the res at 1000 PPM Megacrop + 200 PPM P+K salts
Growth is good at 2+ cm/day and no overt signs of stress. Roots are healthy.

The Malawi is on the right....


A few questions for anyone with 100% Sativa experience:

1) When should I expect the Malawi to show preflower, and how long into flowering schedule does it take for buds to form?

2) I don't want to lose control of this thing; how long/much should I expect the Malawi to stretch? i.e. Do they continue to stretch until finish, or do they stop stretching after a few weeks and just pile on bud?

3) Any recommendations on nutrients? I was of the impression Sativas prefer lower nute PPMs, but so far, both plants seem happy above 1200 PPM.

Other experiential Sativa tips appreciated.
Click to expand...
Take it from a guy who has been growing mostly sativa dominants for almost the last 20 years you started flower too soon.

The way I do my ScroGs is to have the screen 30cm/1ft above the pots so you're good there. I'll have topped/FIMmed it so there's 4 - 12 branches and as they grow thru the screen I bend them over and lash them down loosely to the screen with short pieces of twist tie. As they continue to grow I just keep tying them down. Only need about 3 ties for each branch then move them back as you go along. I have a pail of various sizes now and reuse until I can't no more.

When the branch tips are tied down the branch acts like it's been topped and it's side branches start growing out so they get tied down too. I carry this on until the whole top of the screen is almost totally covered with some branches overlapping others here and there to steer growth into bare areas. If a top grows to the edge I let it hang out and just hand bend it until long enough to turn it around to get it's tip tied down to the screen and head back across.

When I flip to flower I continue lashing down the growth until the stretch is over and that can take up to 5 weeks with a pure sativa that may take 14 weeks or more to finish. Flowering is generally 40% stretch and 60% bud and cola growth that may need another foot or more space above the screen for the height of the colas as the buds stack up.

My 1st DWC ScroG setup. The screen is sheep fencing hanging off baling wire so it can "float" as the plant grows and wants to push it up. With a fixed frame they can't do that easily and suspended like yours will work great for that. Kudos!

ScroGMar291005.jpg

Kali Mist x NL#5 mother plant growing in ProMix switched to DWC in a 2L tobacco can converted into a net pot. Same size as the pot she was in.

ScroGApr0710.jpg

Top view after initial tie down of existing branches. That coated copper wire is a bridge to tie to so I can cross the large openings in that screen.

ScroGApr091009.jpg

All new roots emerging after just a few days.

ScroGApr091001.jpg

Not the same ScroG but same technique and a canopy well worth the wait IMHO. An honest 8oz dry and the same in good sugar trim and popcorn from one plant ain't bad. This one was a good 4 weeks from done in this pic.

OlderScroG01.jpg


You asked about feeding. A strong sativa likes a lot less ppm than a hungry kush or you can run into toxic salts buildup half way through flowering that gets uglier as the days roll by. Really bad if you have low RH like I do so when they are really sucking back the water back off on the feed.

A week before flipping I boost the ppm with all 3 GMB and add a half dose of Big Bud to 'prime the pump' so to say and get budding a head start. After many experiments along this line with all strains I've grown since '01 whether DWC, ProMix HP or real dirt it really makes a big difference in yields. From tracking daily ppm drops in DWC I've seen it increase up to 4X over the week before the flip during rapid growth then drop back to that week before shortly after the stretch. I add extra light and include CO2 during this period to maximize the growth spurt.

I often go the whole grow without ever changing nutes using RO or distilled water only. Can't get away with that using tap water even if it's only 90ppm or so out of the tap. There will be all sorts of minerals in there that will build up in the rez over time. What I try to do is change after the stretch and reload with fresh nutes using the Lucas Formula style of feeding. I go by ppm and not by a specific amount of nutes but in the ratio of 0-1-2 GMB. Extra K over P and extra S for the resin is my MO.

There's all sorts of other little details but that's the nuts and bolts of it. Feel free to ask if you need more.

:peace:
 
graying.geek

graying.geek

Well-Known Member
Airwalker16 said:
Not saying its all Indica. But I am DEFINITELY saying neither are 100% Saliva as he claimed them to be. They're just not... There is likely some saliva, but even so, they're dominantly Indica meaning more than 50%. But as you said, we will have to wait n see. Personally though, I don't expect much change after flower, though.
Click to expand...
Let's review... I've never grown a full blooded sativa before so I have no experience with them, and I don't "claim" anything, just repeating what Ace says about their Malawi. Take it up with them if you think the strain looks indica. You're usually helpful, but GEEZUZ!
 
graying.geek

graying.geek

Well-Known Member
OldMedUser said:
Take it from a guy who has been growing mostly sativa dominants for almost the last 20 years you started flower too soon.

The way I do my ScroGs is to have the screen 30cm/1ft above the pots so you're good there. I'll have topped/FIMmed it so there's 4 - 12 branches and as they grow thru the screen I bend them over and lash them down loosely to the screen with short pieces of twist tie. As they continue to grow I just keep tying them down. Only need about 3 ties for each branch then move them back as you go along. I have a pail of various sizes now and reuse until I can't no more.

When the branch tips are tied down the branch acts like it's been topped and it's side branches start growing out so they get tied down too. I carry this on until the whole top of the screen is almost totally covered with some branches overlapping others here and there to steer growth into bare areas. If a top grows to the edge I let it hang out and just hand bend it until long enough to turn it around to get it's tip tied down to the screen and head back across.

When I flip to flower I continue lashing down the growth until the stretch is over and that can take up to 5 weeks with a pure sativa that may take 14 weeks or more to finish. Flowering is generally 40% stretch and 60% bud and cola growth that may need another foot or more space above the screen for the height of the colas as the buds stack up.

My 1st DWC ScroG setup. The screen is sheep fencing hanging off baling wire so it can "float" as the plant grows and wants to push it up. With a fixed frame they can't do that easily and suspended like yours will work great for that. Kudos!

View attachment 4522489

Kali Mist x NL#5 mother plant growing in ProMix switched to DWC in a 2L tobacco can converted into a net pot. Same size as the pot she was in.

View attachment 4522490

Top view after initial tie down of existing branches. That coated copper wire is a bridge to tie to so I can cross the large openings in that screen.

View attachment 4522494

All new roots emerging after just a few days.

View attachment 4522495

Not the same ScroG but same technique and a canopy well worth the wait IMHO. An honest 8oz dry and the same in good sugar trim and popcorn from one plant ain't bad. This one was a good 4 weeks from done in this pic.

View attachment 4522507


You asked about feeding. A strong sativa likes a lot less ppm than a hungry kush or you can run into toxic salts buildup half way through flowering that gets uglier as the days roll by. Really bad if you have low RH like I do so when they are really sucking back the water back off on the feed.

A week before flipping I boost the ppm with all 3 GMB and add a half dose of Big Bud to 'prime the pump' so to say and get budding a head start. After many experiments along this line with all strains I've grown since '01 whether DWC, ProMix HP or real dirt it really makes a big difference in yields. From tracking daily ppm drops in DWC I've seen it increase up to 4X over the week before the flip during rapid growth then drop back to that week before shortly after the stretch. I add extra light and include CO2 during this period to maximize the growth spurt.

I often go the whole grow without ever changing nutes using RO or distilled water only. Can't get away with that using tap water even if it's only 90ppm or so out of the tap. There will be all sorts of minerals in there that will build up in the rez over time. What I try to do is change after the stretch and reload with fresh nutes using the Lucas Formula style of feeding. I go by ppm and not by a specific amount of nutes but in the ratio of 0-1-2 GMB. Extra K over P and extra S for the resin is my MO.

There's all sorts of other little details but that's the nuts and bolts of it. Feel free to ask if you need more.

:peace:
Click to expand...
Thanx for answering my questions instead of just berating Ace's genetics.

I'm confused re: your strategy. It sounds like you wait until your screen is almost full before you flip. On this grow, just before they hit the screen I topped them, then flipped to 11/13. It's been 3 weeks and they've filled the screen about 80% and still stretching. If, as you say, the'll stretch for another 2 weeks my screen should be packed. If I'd waited to flip until it was half full before the stretch, I'd have a jungle on my hands. Do you have to double screen yours? Just trying to understand the timing....
 
Kassiopeija

Kassiopeija

Well-Known Member
You better hope they stretch like mad in order to get your room full. As much light as can be allowed to aid in growing.

Lets see then what kind of buds she'll grow, that will give yet anothet hint of her genetic origin.
 
graying.geek

graying.geek

Well-Known Member
Probably should tie off this thread for posterity. It ended up being a successful, albeit educational, grow. The Durban Poison plant "finished" and was Pharvested at the end of May yielding 7 oz of rough trimmed bud after 9 weeks of 12/12. By that time the Malawi was taking up 70% of the screen so the Durban was getting pretty crowded.

Here's the Malawi a week before harvest.

IMG_20200704_094402565_HDR.jpg

The Malawi had developed buds that just kept getting longer but didn't thicken and it was getting seriously out of contol height-wise. So, as recommended above, at the beginning of June I cut the nutes to mid-veg level and added apprpriate amount of a P-K booster with each feeding keeping the total PPM ~900. That did the trick. Vertical gsherowth slowed way down and over the course of the following 6 weeks the buds fattened up nicely. After close to 14 weeks of 12/12 the trichomes were milky with a handful of amber and the girl go chopped. Rough trimmed and ried down to 60% she yielded 1.5 lb, so respectable. I processed a couple of oz for edibles and made a batch of chocolate cookies at my nomal dosing level for a test drive. OMG! I was skeptical about the marketing hype re: this strain being abnormally powerful, but I overdosed and became totally wasted with accompanying nausea and restlessness. Impressive stuff.

As far as lessons learned, I'd summarize the strategy for my next sativa grow as follows:

1) Maintain mid-veg level nutrients until mid-flower

2) Switch to 12/12 when the plant reaches the scrog sceen

3) Run the tops under, or tie on top of the screen until the screen is "full"

4) When the screen is full, switch to 10/14, lower the nitrogen and start adding P-K booster

Keep in mind this is my first sativa grow so take it for what it's worth, though, most is based on other input in the thread.
 
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