What do you believe is the fundamental problem with [American] government?

[Olive Drab Green]

You don't even have proof he passed classified information just one man's word from what I seen that shit won't hold up in court.

Actually, they confirmed multiple sources.

 

[Padawanbater2]

they function in very similar ways

So your point is because thirty years ago Republicans and Democrats are the same.

Not Trump, not the impending tax cuts for the rich, not the foiled attempt by Democrats to repeal Citizens United ruling but thirty years ago that's why.

They function in very similar ways economically because New Democrats adopted the Republicans fiscally conservative approach to policy and it hasn't shifted back since while Republicans have moved further "free-market", away from viable social welfare, education, or science funding

Umm, the ICE agent in the neighborhood yesterday is more important to a lot of people than thirty years ago. Just saying. There is a big difference between the Obama and Trump administrations.

How is making an observation about the economy mutually exclusive from opposing deporting illegal aliens?

You realize one can do both, right?

Fixing the economic issues being discussed here would benefit the poor, women, and minorities, disproportionately more because we both agree these are the groups of people suffering the most in our society. I find the constant false barrage of lies about how fixing the economic problems Sanders and other progressive politicians support won't help these groups of people when it will in fact help them the most incredibly disingenuous

One more thing, I see you've adopted the Hillary Clinton strategy of espousing no policy positions of your own of substance, just keep talking about how bad you think the competition is and hope that's enough.

So what policies do you support that you think would help solve the problems the poor, women and minorities currently face, more?

 

[Justin-case]

Actually, they confirmed multiple sources.

He fucking admitted in a tweet this morning, lol. That brings me to my new theory, the Russians have a hold of Trump's Twitter account. Seriously, just think about it. Obama tapped my wires, no further comment. Comet better hope there are no tapes of our conversation, no further comment. Ask salley Yates who leaked info, leaks classified information to Russians, then tweets about it, hmmmm.

 

[Olive Drab Green]

He fucking admitted in a tweet this morning, lol. That brings me to my new theory, the Russians have a hold of Trump's Twitter account. Seriously, just think about it. Obama tapped my wires, no further comment. Comet better hope there are no tapes of our conversation, no further comment. Ask salley Yates who leaked info, leaks classified information to Russians, then tweets about it, hmmmm.

I think he knows exactly what he's doing, and he thinks he's going to get away with it. I think he announced his candidacy just after conspiring with Putin. Trump wants his ego back from going bankrupt and not being relevant since the '80s, and Putin wants retribution for the sanctions against Russia. I'll bet Trump books as soon as his back is against the wall, winds up in Russia, and is awarded the Russian Gold Star/former Hero of the Soviet Union medal.

 

[Grandpapy]

I think he knows exactly what he's doing, and he thinks he's going to get away with it. I think he announced his candidacy just after conspiring with Putin. Trump wants his ego back from going bankrupt and not being relevant since the '80s, and Putin wants retribution for the sanctions against Russia. I'll bet Trump books as soon as his back is against the wall, winds up in Russia, and is awarded the Russian Gold Star/former Hero of the Soviet Union medal.

So far he he has benefited Russia more than the US.

 

[Justin-case]

I think he knows exactly what he's doing, and he thinks he's going to get away with it. I think he announced his candidacy just after conspiring with Putin. Trump wants his ego back from going bankrupt and not being relevant since the '80s, and Putin wants retribution for the sanctions against Russia. I'll bet Trump books as soon as his back is against the wall, winds up in Russia, and is awarded the Russian Gold Star/former Hero of the Soviet Union medal.

I have no doubt he will run, oj style. Putin has had it out for Hillary ever since her state department shined a light on fraudulent elections and Putin's apparent strangle hold on Russia's government. I don't know how far back actual collusion between the GOP and russia goes, but it's obvious the GOP has been using Putin's playbook for at least the last decade. This shit is real and it is deep, I'm hearing as many as seventy individuals and entities are included in indictments!

 

[Olive Drab Green]

I have no doubt he will run, oj style. Putin has had it out for Hillary ever since her state department shined a light on fraudulent elections and Putin's apparent strangle hold on Russia's government. I don't know how far back actual collusion between the GOP and russia goes, but it's obvious the GOP has been using Putin's playbook for at least the last decade. This shit is real and it is deep, I'm hearing as many as seventy individuals and entities are included in indictments!

Indictments?! That's exciting!

 

[Justin-case]

Indictments?! That's exciting!

These two have proven sources in the intelligence communities, have both been spot on multiple times on trump\russia.

https://twitter.com/LouiseMensch/status/864093277280194567

 

[undercovergrow]

I know you don't need facts but I'll give you a few. You said that, women with kids are incompetent not me. Another fact is the economy is intentionally run to create 5% unemployment. The system is geared to throw people out of work. You say health care is the responsibility of everybody. If so, why don't we have access to health care for everybody? As you told @ttystikk, they can die for all you care so I have a better idea what kind of person you are. We have our differences, I'll agree to that.

I especially laugh at your use of naive. You still cling to the not-fact that republicans and democrats are two sides of the same coin, which, if you are following the actions of the recent republican administration you would know that is false. To say that the Republican and Democratic parties are the same is naive. It's also only possible to say that if you are a white person who is in a comfortable economic situation. In other words, What they do doesn't affect you so, it's not important.

re-read it - i said you must assume women cannot take care... the system is not geared to throw people out of work unless they are on government assistance already. and i also did not tell anyone they can die - i said people do die and there will be nothing that the government can do to stop that fact. it is obvious that the Ds and the Rs are moving toward the same goal - it is evident in the budget that was just passed and it has been evident for the last several years.

apparently you must be a poor white person who is not in a comfortable economic situation and desire the government to take care of you - i don't.

 

[Grandpapy]

apparently you must be a poor white person who is not in a comfortable economic situation and desire the government to take care of you - i don't.

What if one becomes poor because of lack of govt. intervention, is that not the tool of an outside source? Squeeze the local coffers cutting public services so Exxon can sell Iraq oil to China @ $2 bbl. and pay no tax.

Your govt. is taking care of you.

 

[ttystikk]

re-read it - i said you must assume women cannot take care... the system is not geared to throw people out of work unless they are on government assistance already. and i also did not tell anyone they can die - i said people do die and there will be nothing that the government can do to stop that fact. it is obvious that the Ds and the Rs are moving toward the same goal - it is evident in the budget that was just passed and it has been evident for the last several years.

apparently you must be a poor white person who is not in a comfortable economic situation and desire the government to take care of you - i don't.

Translation: 'i got mine, you can go fuck yourself'

You're a real peach.

 

[Olive Drab Green]

Hey, look, @fdd2blk's wife is getting railed out in a porta-shitter. All aboard!

 

[Fogdog]

They function in very similar ways economically because New Democrats adopted the Republicans fiscally conservative approach to policy and it hasn't shifted back since while Republicans have moved further "free-market", away from viable social welfare, education, or science funding

How is making an observation about the economy mutually exclusive from opposing deporting illegal aliens?

You realize one can do both, right?

Fixing the economic issues being discussed here would benefit the poor, women, and minorities, disproportionately more because we both agree these are the groups of people suffering the most in our society. I find the constant false barrage of lies about how fixing the economic problems Sanders and other progressive politicians support won't help these groups of people when it will in fact help them the most incredibly disingenuous

One more thing, I see you've adopted the Hillary Clinton strategy of espousing no policy positions of your own of substance, just keep talking about how bad you think the competition is and hope that's enough.

So what policies do you support that you think would help solve the problems the poor, women and minorities currently face, more?

Please recall that this thread of discussion started when I called @undercovergrow naive for saying the Republicans and Democrats were two sides of the same coin. You talk as if the two parties are the same too. Yet you agree there are differences. Important ones at that. Different means they are not the same. You had to go back thirty years to make your case. Maybe it was valid then. Today, just look at how the Obama administration governed then look at the Trump one. Big differences. Maybe some of those big differences don't affect you just now because a white man isn't going to be affected by a lot of the rules changes that Trump has managed to get done.

If you like Donald Trump's tax cut and spending increase policy so much then fine, I agree that you've gone over to the other side. But don't tell me that the two parties are the same. Those tax cuts and spending increases have been on the table for the entire Obama administration and they never had a chance of a signature. The resulting ballooning debt will be paid for by the generation after you, just like you are now paying for the Bush and Reagan tax cuts in the form of low wages and poor working conditions. Clinton left the country with a budget surplus and Obama whittled down the deficit while bringing unemployment down from the double digit numbers he inherited. His management of the economy made life better for you and others whether you recognize it or not.

Right now, the cause is to prevent Trump and the 1% from making things worse. If you can't see this then fine. We agree on a lot of things but not this.

 

[oswizzle]

Israel/Zionist

You guys are missing the point

 

[Fogdog]

re-read it - i said you must assume women cannot take care... the system is not geared to throw people out of work unless they are on government assistance already. and i also did not tell anyone they can die - i said people do die and there will be nothing that the government can do to stop that fact. it is obvious that the Ds and the Rs are moving toward the same goal - it is evident in the budget that was just passed and it has been evident for the last several years.

apparently you must be a poor white person who is not in a comfortable economic situation and desire the government to take care of you - i don't.

You said about me:
"you assume that every woman that is single and has kids must be incompetent and unable to provide for herself"

What can I say? You accuse me of something I never said. From that statement you go on in a meaningless made up diatribe about what I "assume". Again, belief is not the same as fact. I don't assume what you say. So the rest of your statement is idle musing or BS, whichever you want.

The median individual income is about $35,000 per year.

me·di·an
ˈmēdēən/
adjective

1. denoting or relating to a value or quantity lying at the midpoint of a frequency distribution of observed values or quantities, such that there is an equal probability of falling above or below it.

Half the workers in this country have an income that is less than the median income of $35,000. If somebody gets a better job, then good for them. It doesn't change the fact that more than half the country still can't afford to purchase health care coverage, something that is necessary to make it in this economy. If you believe that people "should" pay for their own then what do you suggest we do? I can think of several options How about a minimum wage that is high enough for the necessities of life such as health care coverage. If you don't like that option then tell me what you suggest is possible that we do? Cut the morality crap and give me a solution.

 

[Big_Lou]

Israel/Zionist

You guys are missing the point

Reported as nazism.

Hit the road, breit-bitch.

 

[ttystikk]

Reported as nazism.

Hit the road, breit-bitch.

He can't count; he has six points, one for each on the Star of David.

He can be counted upon to yell the same answer, no matter what the question. Unlike a dead clock, he's not right twice a day.

 

[ttystikk]

You said about me:
"you assume that every woman that is single and has kids must be incompetent and unable to provide for herself"

What can I say? You accuse me of something I never said. From that statement you go on in a meaningless made up diatribe about what I "assume". Again, belief is not the same as fact. I don't assume what you say. So the rest of your statement is idle musing or BS, whichever you want.

The median individual income is about $35,000 per year.

Do you know what "median" means?

me·di·an
ˈmēdēən/
adjective

1. denoting or relating to a value or quantity lying at the midpoint of a frequency distribution of observed values or quantities, such that there is an equal probability of falling above or below it.

Half the workers in this country have an income that is less than the median income of $35,000. If somebody gets a better job, then good for them. It doesn't change the fact that more than half the country still can't afford to purchase health care coverage, something that is necessary to make it in this economy. If you believe that people "should" pay for their own then what do you suggest we do? I can think of several options, such as a minimum wage that is high enough for the necessities of life such as health care coverage. If you don't like that option then tell me what you suggest is possible that we do? Cut the morality crap and give me a solution.

Her sense of morality can be summed up as, 'I've got mine, now go fuck yourself'. Her 'ethics' are similarly mean spirited and selfish.

Health Care is not amenable to a capitalist model, period: No one chooses to get cancer, nevermind when or how. Without choice it becomes a racket.

Health insurance companies and huge hospital conglomerates will say anything and buy anyone in order to keep their cushy positions, rent seeking from those whose health problems force them into the system. Their lies have killed millions of Americans in the name of 'shareholder value' and it's time their sinister racket was exposed for what it is.

 

[Fogdog]

Her sense of morality can be summed up as, 'I've got mine, now go fuck yourself'. Her 'ethics' are similarly mean spirited and selfish.

Health Care is not amenable to a capitalist model, period: No one chooses to get cancer, nevermind when or how. Without choice it becomes a racket.

Health insurance companies and huge hospital conglomerates will say anything and buy anyone in order to keep their cushy positions, rent seeking from those whose health problems force them into the system. Their lies have killed millions of Americans in the name of 'shareholder value' and it's time their sinister racket was exposed for what it is.

We'll see. I'm testing the "let's find a solution, not debate ideology" approach. I'm curious if she gets that there is a difference between ideology and solutions. Thus far, my magic eight-ball says "seems unlikely".

 

[ttystikk]

We'll see. I'm testing the "let's find a solution, not debate ideology" approach. I'm curious if she gets that there is a difference between ideology and solutions. Thus far, my magic eight-ball says "seems unlikely".

There's a huge amount of rent seekers running various industries in our society, which gives them the money with which to game our political system to their own advantage.

Universal healthcare would put a few of these huge businesses out of our misery and the savings would be applied to everyone's account. That kind of fairness has long since gone out of fashion in our country and the political apathy displayed by the American citizenry continues to favor those who would profit by the current regime.

Therefore, change seems unlikely but I'll keep pushing anyway.